CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[Zelda1010]

I don't know what photo that is but a raised fist is a well-known symbol of resisitance against oppression. And I love it. When it's not part of an overall staging by creepy people who bask in the "glory" of having such a diverse family of oppressed persons.

First post, blue shirts from Bernie Sanders rally. His arm is not raised in a prideful fist, but his visible left hand is clenched in a fist at his side. His other arm is around Mom Sarah.



It could be nothing. Or maybe the possibly RAD boy who gives free hugs to strangers is feeling anxious or stressed while the group photo is being taken with him showing affection for Mother. It could be an "excited utterance" of the hand without raising the fist. Say "revolution!" instead of cheese or smile, maybe. But it does stick out to me.

 

[HearMeRoar]

I still wonder if there was a financial incentive to 'acquiring' 6 minority children from difficult backgrounds. Do we
know for a fact they were legally adopted? Or could they be long term foster parents and earning monthly checks?
I've read that there are incentives of several thousand dollars per month to take in minority children who had abusive
or neglectful backgrounds. Weren't all these children from the state of Texas?
If Jen and Sarah met at college in N.D. (which I've read online), how did they end up in Minnesota? Jen was from
Oregon (West Linn, I believe), Sara was from Idaho, I've read. They didn't stay long in each location once they got
the children. Were they continually running from nosey neighbors or CPS? I read the police were called to their home
in West Linn, Oregon. Then they moved to Woodland, Wa.

Here's some information about Adoption (firsthand as an adoptive parent and also having working with foster and adoptive families). Laws seem to change continuously from state to state but right now, same-sex couples in all states except Mississippi adopt.
https://www.lifelongadoptions.com/lgbt-adoption-resources/lgbt-adoption-laws

If the laws prohibited the Hart's from adopting as a couple, there is something called "A second parent adoption." A second-parent adoption allows a second parent to adopt a child without the "first parent" losing any parental rights. In this way, the child comes to have two legal parents. In other words, after one partner adopted the children, the partner could then petition to adopt the children. My guess is that both parents adopted the children. https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/adoption/adoptive/family-type/second-parent/

Regarding foster care and adoption and monthly stipends. Stipends are provided to families who provide foster care. The stipends vary from agency to agency and from state to state. Some sites will tell you what the stipend is if you google it. Stipends are typically $550- $1000/ per month per child. There are different levels of care as well and special needs children would typically provide a higher stipend. The idea behind the stipend is to reimburse a parent(s) for food, clothing, entertainment, utilities, etc. I would like to believe that families go into foster care because they are passionate about children and believe that these kids, typically with a trauma history, need an advocate.

When a foster family makes a decision to adopt a child, that stipend will continue to be provided to the family if it is needed/ wanted until that child leaves the home or turns 18. Stipends will continue even in the case of kinship care, e.g.,, a grandmother adopting a grandchild. The child will also be provided with Medicaid (healthcare). Without the stipends, fostercare would be in an even greater mess than it is right now. There are fabulous foster and adoptive homes out here and as we all know . . . there are homes that should never be permitted to have children.

One way of adopting children is to become a foster parent in your county. Bio parents have 2 years (Adoption and Safe Families Act) to "fix" reasons why kids came into foster care. After that (and that too varies) the goal is supposed to be legally changed from reunification. . . to adoption. Another way to adopt is to look at available children through SWAN, (Statewide Adoption and Permanency Network) whose parents rights are already terminated, and that may be going to another state. It looks like that's what SH and JH did.

 

[WillenFan21]

If this article has been posted I apologize. Seems like there was abuse going on. It infuriates me that these children basically sought out help from neighbors who didn't report any of what they saw.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/03/...s-seemed-like-they-had-been-told-not-to-talk/

 

[unsinkable]

I wonder if the adults were stressed out and arguing/fighting? Maybe the driver picked up speed as they fought, and was sort of lashing out by driving recklessly to scare her wife? I suppose she could have totally lost her cool and just cranked the wheel over the cliff in a sudden angry impulsive decision? It seems the driver was the one with impulse control issues in the past.

This seems plausible to me. Driving recklessly is a classic abuser move used to terrifying passengers. And maybe the driver just decided to end her life and take everyone else with her.

It is so sad. I can't even comprehend the terror the passengers experienced.

 

[Eloise]

If this article has been posted I apologize. Seems like there was abuse going on. It infuriates me that these children basically sought out help from neighbors who didn't report any of what they saw.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/03/...s-seemed-like-they-had-been-told-not-to-talk/

It says they did call? They were literally on the run from CPS, so it's not as if CPS were unaware there were issues.

The DeKalbs told the Washington Post that Devonte urged his neighbors to call Child Protective Services, which they did the next day. But the Press Democrat, which also interviewed the couple, reports that Devonte asked the DeKalbs not to call authorities, and that they eventually concluded that his visits were a cry for help.

Bruce DeKalb told the newspaper that he saw a CPS worker knock on the Hart’s door on Friday, and then turn around and leave after only a minute.

The DeKalbs told the Washington Post they believe the family left either Friday night or Saturday morning. When a CPS worker went back to the home on Monday, they were gone.

bbm

 

[Zelda1010]

If this article has been posted I apologize. Seems like there was abuse going on. It infuriates me that these children basically sought out help from neighbors who didn't report any of what they saw.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/03/...s-seemed-like-they-had-been-told-not-to-talk/

From that article.

The DeKalbs told the Washington Post that Devonte urged his neighbors to call Child Protective Services, which they did the next day. But the Press Democrat, which also interviewed the couple, reports that Devonte asked the DeKalbs not to call authorities, and that they eventually concluded that his visits were a cry for help.

I want to check out the press democrat article. Iirc, WaPo said the boy asked his neighbors if they did call CPS. That read to me as "did you do it yet..." But it could still be "did you call? Because I really don't want you to...".

We all know the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the victim tries to leave. It appears it does not matter if the victim is a child or significant other. I don't know why that feels like a revelation to me.

I do hope the two kids with a recent history of fear took it upon themselves to escape (bringing the youngest with them, somehow). I worry they were, all six, left in a remote location with a choice, perhaps, to make it on their own, "if you think it is so bad". Maybe D's sister S, the youngest, with no current obvious abuse, stayed in allegiance with her sister & brother, while the other three were too brainwashed to escape.

I'm embarrassed to say I had to Google Thelma & Louise going off a cliff, but dang. It sure seems like Jen made a decision to keep on going, to keep the fantasy alive, in the face of reality knocking at their door. Moo.

If they have any reason at all to believe those three might not have perished in the crash, I wish they would broadcast their most recent pictures & a plea for their safety. If they found some rainbow encampment or something.....

 

[kdg411]

Do we know if the vehicle was traveling Northbound or Southbound?

 

[LonelyChild]

I just don't like these poor kids chances. They seemed very malnourished and weak. I dont think the kids tried to escape what was happening.l they would be too weak you'd think to try to do that. I do think that best case scenario the younger three children are out there and Alive it's possible they planned an escape. The only reason I say that is cause the one boy kept asking neighbors for food. Maybe he was packing it away for when they ran away. Maybe sometime before Friday the kids took off and when cps showed up at the house the mothers panicked. This would give them a reason to drive the car off the cliff feeling it was the only way out still doesn't explain why they'd go all the way to California tho. It would also explain why the younger kids weren't in the car at the time of the wreck. I wonder if neighbors when they seen the family take off happened to see if all six Kids were present or just the three? Maybe LE knows but hasn't said yet to the public maybe that's why they are so sure the kids are somewhere in the water.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[WillenFan21]

It says they did call? They were literally on the run from CPS, so it's not as if CPS were unaware there were issues.



bbm

From that article.



I want to check out the press democrat article. Iirc, WaPo said the boy asked his neighbors if they did call CPS. That read to me as "did you do it yet..." But it could still be "did you call? Because I really don't want you to...".

We all know the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the victim tries to leave. It appears it does not matter if the victim is a child or significant other. I don't know why that feels like a revelation to me.

I do hope the two kids with a recent history of fear took it upon themselves to escape. I worry they were, all six, left in a remote location with a choice, perhaps, to make it on their own, if you think it is so bad. Maybe D's sister S, the youngest, with no current obvious abuse, stayed in allegiance with her sister & brother, while the other three were too brainwashed to escape.

I'm embarrassed to say I had to Google Thelma & Louise going off a cliff, but dang. It sure seems like Jen made a decision to keep on going, to keep the fantasy alive, in the face of reality knocking at their door. Moo.

If they have any reason at all to believe those three might not have perished in the crash, I wish they would broadcast their most recent pictures & a plea for their safety. If they found some rainbow encampment or something.....

I should have clarified better what i meant. I saw that they called but I meant there were clearly signs there (coming over for food, the girl jumping out of the window, noticing the missing teeth, the fact that they thought for her age she looked to be 7 years old) like they didn't call until the boy outright asked them. The things they saw before that should have been warning signs to them. JMO

 

[everybodhi]

I’m not sure the speed itself would be a felony. I suspect it’s something separate from the crash.

OT—speaking of felony, every once in awhile I check out the FB page of a woman peripherally involved in a missing person/assumed murdered case I follow. I discovered that she recently had a baby girl and named her Felonie. I kid you not. Poor child (for more reasons than just her name).

OT to OT-
When we were talking about names for one of my daughters before her birth, a friend’s kid in the room said, “ I think you should name her Shallow, that’s a pretty name”.
I still laugh when I think of it.
I guess Felonie is pretty too, if you don’t know what it means.

 

[mrsu]

I have a couple issues with the 90mph statement.

1. From the tire tracks they showed, it definitely looks like the truck was stopped and then peeled out over the cliff.

2. Had the car been going 90mph, I feel like it would have landed much further out from the cliff, possibly even in the water?!

3. Has anyone considered that the kids might have been in the bed of the truck? It seems unlikely that 3 adult sized kids would be ejected from a 2 door truck with such small windows in the back. I know it could happen, but with only the kids being ejected, it makes me wonder. What if they pulled off to take in the scenery and parents encouraged the kids to jump in the back to enjoy the view and then bam, off the cliff??!


EDITED TO ADD: Nevermind #3. The article I had read said they were in a pickup truck!! I didn’t realize it was an SUV so that makes my post sound crazy! Lol

 

[everybodhi]

That is so chilling too even think about. And yet...where are the missing souls?

If they are in the ocean, they sank.
They may never resurface, if that is the case.


Warning: Graphic

[h=1]What Happens To A Dead Body In The Ocean?[/h]

How long do dead bodies remain intact in the ocean?

 

[everybodhi]

I have a couple issues with the 90mph statement.

1. From the tire tracks they showed, it definitely looks like the truck was stopped and then peeled out over the cliff.

2. Had the car been going 90mph, I feel like it would have landed much further out from the cliff, possibly even in the water?!

3. Has anyone considered that the kids might have been in the bed of the truck? It seems unlikely that 3 adults would be ejected from a 2 door truck with such small windows in the back. I know it could happen, but with only the kids being ejected, it makes me wonder. What if they pulled off to take in the scenery and parents encouraged the kids to jump in the back to enjoy the view and then bam, off the cliff??!

There were no tracks left by the SUV driver, according to LE.
The tracks you are seeing are from when they pulled the truck back up over the cliff.
A link has been posted, somewhere in this thread, where LE clarified the tire tracks.

 

[Stunned]

Here's some information about Adoption (firsthand as an adoptive parent and also having working with foster and adoptive families). Laws seem to change continuously from state to state but right now, same-sex couples in all states except Mississippi adopt.
https://www.lifelongadoptions.com/lgbt-adoption-resources/lgbt-adoption-laws

If the laws prohibited the Hart's from adopting as a couple, there is something called "A second parent adoption." A second-parent adoption allows a second parent to adopt a child without the "first parent" losing any parental rights. In this way, the child comes to have two legal parents. In other words, after one partner adopted the children, the partner could then petition to adopt the children. My guess is that both parents adopted the children. https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/adoption/adoptive/family-type/second-parent/

Regarding foster care and adoption and monthly stipends. Stipends are provided to families who provide foster care. The stipends vary from agency to agency and from state to state. Some sites will tell you what the stipend is if you google it. Stipends are typically $550- $1000/ per month per child. There are different levels of care as well and special needs children would typically provide a higher stipend. The idea behind the stipend is to reimburse a parent(s) for food, clothing, entertainment, utilities, etc. I would like to believe that families go into foster care because they are passionate about children and believe that these kids, typically with a trauma history, need an advocate.

When a foster family makes a decision to adopt a child, that stipend will continue to be provided to the family if it is needed/ wanted until that child leaves the home or turns 18. Stipends will continue even in the case of kinship care, e.g.,, a grandmother adopting a grandchild. The child will also be provided with Medicaid (healthcare). Without the stipends, fostercare would be in an even greater mess than it is right now. There are fabulous foster and adoptive homes out here and as we all know . . . there are homes that should never be permitted to have children.

One way of adopting children is to become a foster parent in your county. Bio parents have 2 years (Adoption and Safe Families Act) to "fix" reasons why kids came into foster care. After that (and that too varies) the goal is supposed to be legally changed from reunification. . . to adoption. Another way to adopt is to look at available children through SWAN, (Statewide Adoption and Permanency Network) whose parents rights are already terminated, and that may be going to another state. It looks like that's what SH and JH did.

With a shout out to adoptive parents who don’t do this I personally knew foster parent/ adoptive parent who did foster/adopt to improve home. Severe allergies.... replace carpet
throughout entire house with wood floors..Child never let outdoors....complete Disney World backyard. I am not saying this is bad, I just am saying that I have known foster/forever families that did this to improve and support their lives.

 

[drama_farmer]

Unsure if I did this right, but I’m coming up with them landing roughly 200 feet out from the cliff’s edge (the point where the wheels lost contact). If the cliff slopes at all, they could appear to have landed closer than they did (if that makes sense).

I suffer from chronic math avoidance syndrome, so I can't help with any calculations! I'm also questioning the 90mph final speed. Let's hope the SUV's "black box" can provide a more definitive answer.

I'm thinking that if you imagine the SUV in a "barrel" roll as it left the cliff, that may account for its final resting position.

I guess what I'm picturing is the vehicle heading off the cliff while nearly parallel (as opposed to perpendicular) to the edge. That would transfer any forward momentum laterally, causing it to roll down the cliff, making a number of contacts with the terrain, rolling and contacting the dirt/rocks all the way down, landing close to the bottom as opposed to "soaring" off the cliff into the sea.

The only problem with that theory, of course, is the apparent lack of any evidence of a flipping/rolling SUV along the turnout area. MOO

 

[Eloise]

I should have clarified better what i meant. I saw that they called but I meant there were clearly signs there (coming over for food, the girl jumping out of the window, noticing the missing teeth, the fact that they thought for her age she looked to be 7 years old) like they didn't call until the boy outright asked them. The things they saw before that should have been warning signs to them. JMO

Maybe but a) it's not their responsibility, ultimately. It was the parents responsibility and b) a lot of that you might assume would be some weirdness to be expected from traumatised foster kids; there have been posts in this thread saying their foster kids suffering trauma had some weird behaviours. When the kid asked directly they did what they were asked, a lot of people wouldn't even get that involved or just tell the kid to shoo when they asked for food. I don't think it's fair to blame the neighbors, who had no responsibility for these kids, to shoulder the blame that the parents themselves are responsible for.

 

[Spellbound]

Drone video of site where car went over the cliff. now I can see how easily a body would get carried away from the scene... the water moved so fast. States the soeedometer was stuck at 90.... what could possibly make it read at that speed if it were not true?

Video is from: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/sp...ifornia-cliff-plunge-killed-adopted-children/
https://youtu.be/XVXbGnOP69M

[video=youtu;XVXbGnOP69M]http://youtu.be/XVXbGnOP69M[/video]

 

[Whiteorchids]

Drone video of site where car went over the cliff. now I can see how easily a body would get carried away from the scene... the water moved so fast. States the soeedometer was stuck at 90.... what could possibly make it read at that speed if it were not true?

Video is from: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/sp...ifornia-cliff-plunge-killed-adopted-children/
https://youtu.be/XVXbGnOP69M

Thanks so much for posting. Is there anyway you can take a screenshot of this and markup where the suv went over and where found. I don’t see vehicle in the video.

 

[SugarQueen]

I asked hubby about where the suv landed, speedometer stuck at 90. He pointed out if the driver had there foot on the gas AFTER the car went over the edge of the cliff the speedometer would jump up quickly. ( wheels in the air, no drag ). Hope that makes sense.

 

[Spellbound]

http://www.kptv.com/story/37852994/...r-pinned-at-90-mph-in-deadly-california-crash
The speedometer in the car of a Woodland family who died in a crash on the California coastline was “pinned” at 90 mph, indicating to officers the vehicle was running and in motion just prior to hitting the rocks below, according to court documents.
Court documents state California Highway Patrol investigators found no “acceleration marks, tire friction marks or braking furrow marks” at the scene.
Investigators said there was no evidence the car collided with the embankment as it “traversed towards the tidal zone below.”


http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...uv-pinned-at-90-mph-report-says/283-533859540
“It was a very confusing scene because there were no skid marks, there were no brake marks," Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman said on March 28. "There was no indication of why this vehicle traversed approximately over 75 feet of a dirt pullout and went into the Pacific Ocean.”


KPTV says it obtained the 12-page document after a search warrant was served at the Hart family home in Woodland, Wash.


Animal control seized one cat, several chickens and ducks from the home, the Clark County Animal Control told KGW. The arriving officer said it appeared two dogs also lived at the home but were not present.