CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[Zelda1010]

I mentioned Sarah received training and skills to educate troubled kids. I should have said "tools" instead of "skills". I purposely said "to educate" instead of "to raise" and meant to specifically come back to that difference when I got to the part where I said she may have realized she didn't have the patience.

No, a degree in something does not make someone good at it.

I don't know her work history. I know of Herberger's and Kohl's. It is telling that she didn't actually go into education. Because she couldn't or didn't want to or whatever. I'm glad you all pointed it out. I meant to mention it, and then I get so wordy as it is....

I'm picturing her lamenting her career path in college already. Maybe she's a perfectionist and when she says she can't do this or doesn't want to, her partner only says "yes you can! You're great with kids! You know we want this....". What education was Jen pursuing?

 

[crhedBngr]

I agree with you. I grew up in the country where for various reasons (including religious) families were large, 8 - 12 kids was not uncommon. They were happy families, farming families, active in their churches and in the community. Subjecting these families to random interference or inspection would clearly violate the Constitution.

Couldn't agree more. My maternal grandmother came from a family of 13; lots of love, hard-working people. My great-granny always greeted us with a hug and kiss.

 

[Quill]

I mentioned Sarah received training and skills to educate troubled kids. I should have said "tools" instead of "skills". I purposely said "to educate" instead of "to raise" and meant to specifically come back to that difference when I got to the part where I said she may have realized she didn't have the patience.

No, a degree in something does not make someone good at it.

I don't know her work history. I know of Herberger's and Kohl's. It is telling that she didn't actually go into education. Because she couldn't or didn't want to or whatever. I'm glad you all pointed it out. I meant to mention it, and then I get so wordy as it is....

I'm picturing her lamenting her career path in college already. Maybe she's a perfectionist and when she says she can't do this or doesn't want to, her partner only says "yes you can! You're great with kids! You know we want this....". What education was Jen pursuing?

You started a good point of discussion, IMO. It sure got me to thinking, anyway. I knew more than one ElemEd or SpEd major in college who got as far a student teaching and realized that they had romanticized the profession as far as day to day life. That was 30 years ago, so I can only imagine how it is today. It truly is a calling and she wouldn't be the first to realize that she was on the wrong path.

Great question about Jen's education. Has that question been answered here and I missed it? Is anyone here aware of her degree or if she completed the requirements?

 

[katydid23]

I think no one knows.

It seems like there should be evidence of the dogs being there---like a bag of dog food and some leashes, some dog bowls?

 

[maggieo]

I have a large family and homeschool my children. I was actually also homeschooled as a child myself. I have to admit I find the prejudice I find in threads like this very offensive. I have had to delete what I type up so many times. It's grossly offensive to me to refer to me as a child hoarder because of my family size. Quite frankly it's just disgusting. Just as disgusting as if someone made some bigoted remark on here regarding someone else's religion or sexuality.

----

Child hoarders? That's just disgusting and hateful and clearly a term deliberately intended to be offensive.

Please don't feel unsupported and insulted on this site--I don't think anyone means it that way. The vast majority of large families are just as loving and healthy as families of any size. However, there is a rare phenomenon where people have lots of kids not because they love kids and love having a big, busy family, but because they want the attention, or for other less-than-healthy reasons. (Some people *have kids in general* for the wrong reasons.) These people could be considered child hoarders because they keep having kids to fill some psychological need, similar to how some people keep getting pets they can't take care of. Not that kids are like animals, but some people treat them that way! I don't think the poster who used that term meant it to apply to all large families, but just to the dysfunctional ones.

And I doubt anyone would argue that sometimes, homeschoolers get amazing educations that far exceed those available in public or even private schools. And that most of the time it's a good thing for the families and kids involved. (I for one wish I'd homeschooled one of my kids, who was failed badly by his public schools.) But it's also true that abusers sometimes resort to homeschooling to hide their abuse. You see it a lot on Websleuths. Public school teachers are *required* to report suspected abuse, and homeschooled kids don't get that extra level of monitoring by society.

Should they? I think maybe they should--not because I think homeschooled kids are abused MORE--I don't know the statistics, but I bet they're abused less, actually--but because when they are abused, there's no one to raise the alarm.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Wow [emoji15] the struggle is real for some of y'all trying to add your input to a dying convo.

Abuse doesn't always lead to *high* trauma effects. Furthermore, I was discussing what the children endured before they were adopted. All of what you named above does not apply to what I was discussing earlier in the thread because we were discussing parameters that contributed to the hart women's actions and the path that led them to doing what you named above. It wasn't a discussion about whether what the hart women did to the children was abuse or not.
When you reply to a text it only quotes the most recent one. So people joining in on the conversation who don't review earlier posts might respond and have no idea what the origins of the discussion was about. ����*♀️ I think your response shows that.



To that end I say going through system is traumatic: what leads to family separation, being in a holding position without knowing what or who is next. As another poster responded to you earlier on “much has to occur to have your children removed.”

What do you classify as ‘high’ trauma?

 

[maggieo]

Dang, I wish we knew what in the world the family was doing in Fort Bragg. My brief googling didn't show me any wonderful family attractions or anything in the area. It would help make sense of the whole flight from Washington if we knew why they were there. Surely someone saw them? Could they have just been hiding out?

 

[HeidiTX232]

I’m really having a hard time thinking that three kids, two dogs, and all their belongings (luggage, dog care items, etc) went missing and was never seen again. Some may be gone forever, but all? Maybe none of them/that was in the vehicle at all? Seems at least SOMETHING would have surfaced somewhere.

 

[Starkville]

Please don't feel unsupported and insulted on this site--I don't think anyone means it that way. The vast majority of large families are just as loving and healthy as families of any size. However, there is a rare phenomenon where people have lots of kids not because they love kids and love having a big, busy family, but because they want the attention, or for other less-than-healthy reasons. (Some people *have kids in general* for the wrong reasons.) These people could be considered child hoarders because they keep having kids to fill some psychological need, similar to how some people keep getting pets they can't take care of. Not that kids are like animals, but some people treat them that way! I don't think the poster who used that term meant it to apply to all large families, but just to the dysfunctional ones.

And I doubt anyone would argue that sometimes, homeschoolers get amazing educations that far exceed those available in public or even private schools. And that most of the time it's a good thing for the families and kids involved. (I for one wish I'd homeschooled one of my kids, who was failed badly by his public schools.) But it's also true that abusers sometimes resort to homeschooling to hide their abuse. You see it a lot on Websleuths. Public school teachers are *required* to report suspected abuse, and homeschooled kids don't get that extra level of monitoring by society.

Should they? I think maybe they should--not because I think homeschooled kids are abused MORE--I don't know the statistics, but I bet they're abused less, actually--but because when they are abused, there's no one to raise the alarm.

Beautifully said. Just what I wanted to write in response.

 

[katydid23]

I know - but I have just seen too many robotic kids with fake, constant smiles glued on their faces.
I was speaking out of frustration.
There have been these two very serious cases recently.

Adopting two sets of very 'hard to place' foster kids, out of the system, hardly seems like 'hoarding', in my opinion.

 

[Starkville]

Dang, I wish we knew what in the world the family was doing in Fort Bragg. My brief googling didn't show me any wonderful family attractions or anything in the area. It would help make sense of the whole flight from Washington if we knew why they were there. Surely someone saw them? Could they have just been hiding out?

it was on FB, so I can’t post it, but a defender of the Harts posted a photo and status by Jen Hart. It was photos of the kids and one of her stories about a magical visit to Glass Beach. It looks as though they had a great time there. I’m guessing they spent some time there before their end.

 

[HeidiTX232]

I also don’t like the idea of extra monitoring of large families or homeschoolers (or people of minority religions or same sex couples or adoptive families or or or). That is a slippery slope that becomes problematic. Also, Cps can barely handle dealing with the workload they have but we are going to add more to their plates? And why? Because someone in this group or that may abuse a child? First, they aren’t shown to be more likely to abuse. And second, we don’t monitor people “just in case” like that. Families are individual, different, unique. Prejudice should not be a part of social work (I’m aware it *is* but typically we try to curtail that, not do it more).

 

[Zelda1010]

Neat, kind of haunting, article about the glass beach. Sounds like there are two less accessible glass beaches, and one most popular.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/grist....wn-beach-inspiring-hope-and-its-opposite/amp/

Later in the day, the friend who took me to the beach said that being there made her feel hopeful about the future of Earth. If that one little place could turn from a flaming garbage dump into a gorgeous natural refuge in less than 50 years, maybe it meant that everything was going to be all right with the planet, right? Right?

The more I thought about it, the more the glass beach at Fort Bragg seemed like a bad reason to feel hopeful. There are only about 7,000 people living in the town; it is relatively easy to get rid of the cast-offs from so few. But even they are still producing waste that goes somewhere. Not into a beautiful rocky cove, but somewhere.

Or we can look closer, and see the evidence of our own destructive nature, right under our feet. And try to do better.

 

[travelbug]

I mentioned Sarah received training and skills to educate troubled kids. I should have said "tools" instead of "skills". I purposely said "to educate" instead of "to raise" and meant to specifically come back to that difference when I got to the part where I said she may have realized she didn't have the patience.

No, a degree in something does not make someone good at it.

I don't know her work history. I know of Herberger's and Kohl's. It is telling that she didn't actually go into education. Because she couldn't or didn't want to or whatever. I'm glad you all pointed it out. I meant to mention it, and then I get so wordy as it is....

I'm picturing her lamenting her career path in college already. Maybe she's a perfectionist and when she says she can't do this or doesn't want to, her partner only says "yes you can! You're great with kids! You know we want this....". What education was Jen pursuing?

I hope no one interprets this as an attempt to mitigate the responsibility Sarah has in preventing this tragedy, because at the point she realized the children were (and would continue to be) abused she should have notified authorities and refused to be a participant. I'm responding to the statement that I've bolded. The entire "story" of this family should be titled "The Jen Show". She becomes involved with a partner, in college, who shares her idealistic dream of proving to the world SHE is a savior. How perfect that her soulmate has an affinity for children, particularly educated in caring for those with special needs. She starts her "life story' by fighting for equal rights for same sex couples. During chapter two she adopts 3 children. During that chapter there is some "unpleasantness" due to some unfortunate incident(s) involving CPS. No one is going to interfere with HER plan for fame, so she convinces her partner to take the blame for the "misinterpreted" child abuse. That was quite a coup, because not only did she successfully adopt her first 3 children - she also gained control of Jen. Jen committed perjury for her, and in doing so, gave up any possibility of pursuing an independent career in teaching. That record would follow Jen forever. The children, and now Jen, became her tools to manipulate and use to fool everyone they encountered. If Jen threatened to leave the relationship Sarah could remind her that her name wasn't on the adoption papers, thus she would lose the children. She also could provide a narrative that would prevent Sarah from being able to foster or adopt in the future. I believe that Sarah was also abused. I've been there and done that, and the primary concern about leaving the relationship isn't personal safety, it's to prevent further harm to the children. I think Sarah tried to free herself from the relationship and to change the dynamics by relocating and starting over, but the power Jen held over her by "possessing" the children always brought her back. Jen controlled the minds of the children and she undoubtedly used them as a threat. She could tell them to lie about Sarah, any abuse or mistreatment, and their "feelings" about their mothers. Jen was a gamer and she would be victorious at any cost. I've heard threats like "if you leave I'll commit suicide" or "I will kill you (and/or the children)" and it becomes an insurmountable fear. Especially in a case like this, where it has already been proven that the perpetrator can get away with the lies and abuse. Everything about this case is heartbreaking. IMHO

 

[katydid23]

Dang, I wish we knew what in the world the family was doing in Fort Bragg. My brief googling didn't show me any wonderful family attractions or anything in the area. It would help make sense of the whole flight from Washington if we knew why they were there. Surely someone saw them? Could they have just been hiding out?

They probably didn't do many of these things, but there are lots of great attractions for families in Mendocino area. Mendocino bluffs are , in my opinion, one of the most beautiful places in the world. And the little village of Mendocino is quaint, scenic and gorgeous. They would have found a lot of like minded individuals if they strolled around the area and looked into the art studios and the yoga studios and the coffee shops/book stores.

Things to Do in Mendocino with Kids:

Hiking Van Damme State Park

There’s a direct path from Little River Inn to the park which has a visitors center and miles of hiking trails. The forest here feels like a colder version of a tropical jungle with ferns and vines growing over fallen trees ala Jurassic Park. Dress warmly as it’s progressively colder as you hike further on the trail.


Horseback Riding with Ricochet Ridge Ranch

Ricochet Ridge Ranch offers horseback riding for the casual and serious rider and kids are welcome. The 2-hour beach ride is a popular option but we chose a private guided ride through the mountains that afforded tremendous views of the coastline. Our guide, Vida, was a no-nonsense, calming force who managed beginner riders (my kids) and a nervous parent (me) with ease and experience.

Visit a Lighthouse

I grew up on a peninsula with 11 lighthouses and I never miss an opportunity to see or climb a lighthouse on vacation. Mendocino has two different but equally interesting ones to explore.

Point Cabrillo Light Station

Just north of Mendocino, the Point Cabrillo Light Station was built after the 1906 earthquake to guide San Francisco-bound cargo ships carrying lumber. It’s a 10-15 minute walk from the parking lot to the restored lighthouse where friendly docents explain the exhibits and lighthouse history to kids. The tower is not usually open for climbing but there are hiking paths on the bluffs.

Anderson Valley Wineries and Attractions

Anderson Valley is gaining fame as a wine producing region and the family-owned wineries are an easy visit with kids. We liked Meyer Family Cellars for the playground, bocce courts and horseshoes and Balo Vineyards for the bocce courts and resident bulldog. Generations of local kids have grown up on Navarro Vineyards’ Gewürztraminer grape juice and our kids liked sampling the Pennyroyal goat cheese too.

A Prehistoric Find at Glass Beach

Glass Beach in Fort Bragg used to be the local dumping grounds for trash. The crashing waves left smooth sea glass all over the beach and while it’s tempting, you cannot take any home for souvenirs. The sea glass is interesting, but the tide pools are spectacular. We discovered a gumboot chiton – a prehistoric creature that, according to the Monterey Bay Aquarium, hasn’t changed much in 500 million years.

Don’t Miss Mushroom Ice Cream

Our explorations left little time to spend in the quaint town of Mendocino however one day we made a special trip to Frankie’s in search of mushroom ice cream. The name sounds “gross” but the local Candy Cap mushrooms don’t taste like vegetables in your creamy treat and the kids have a good story to tell when they get back home.
http://ciaobambino.com/things-to-do-mendocino-with-kids/

Also:
https://www.mendocino.com/kid-friendly.html

Family Friendly Things to Do in Mendocino

Hendy Woods
This State Park features 100 acres of virgin old-growth Redwood trees, family-friendly swimming hole and the Navarro River runs through this park with camping and nature trails. Picnicking sites are located near the banks of the Navarro River in full view of Big Hendy Grove.

Tides and tidepools
The sun and the moon move in cycles affecting the ebb and flow of the Tides, wind and storms. We have two high and low tides of unequal heights each day, with a time difference of approximately six hours between them. Tides below one foot in height are ideal for viewing organisms in our majestic tidepools.

Emerald Mini Golf
A fun yet challenging mix of miniature golf with holes around & through streams, fountains and a two sided water fall! Sure to delight people of all ages.They have a Snack Shack and Arcade and a great place for kid parties.

Beautiful Beaches
Mendocino beaches are pristine, uncrowded and majestically beautiful! You may stroll along a sandy beach one day and snuggle-up for a cliff top
sunset the next night. You'll find magnificent trails and beaches along every inch of Mendocino's

MENDOCINO COAST BOTANICAL GARDENS
Located on 47 Ocean Front acres, this magnificent landscape includes canyons, wetlands, coastal bluffs, a closed-cone pine forest and a varied array of floral and plant collections.

Skunk Train Rides
Take a trip back in time on the World Famous Skunk Train from the Mendocino coast through the majestic redwood forest. It's fun for the whole family!!

GLASS BEACH ~ FORT BRAGG
Glass Beach is one of the most unique beaches on the Mendocino Coast, if not the world. It's not the occasional piece of glass as you stroll along - This awesome cove is covered with glass!

B Bryan Wildlife Preserve
Located in Point Arena, their endangered animals range from various species of zebra, and antelope to giraffes. It's not a petting zoo, but a private preserve caring for endangered African animals roaming free in their large open fields.
Tour Reservations Required

CHANDELIER ~ DRIVE THRU TREE
Located 175 miles north of San Francisco at the junction of US 101 and Coast Highway 1, lies the tiny hamlet of Leggett known worldwide as the home of the Chandelier Drive-Thru Tree.

Point Arena Lighthouse
Open for public tours, the museum is located in the Fog Signal Building, includes displays of historical equipment and pictures, Coast Guard and ship wreck artifacts and charts, geographical maps and information on the area, and examples of local plants, birds, and whales.

https://www.mendocino.com/kid-friendly.html

 

[gcharlie]

I also don’t like the idea of extra monitoring of large families or homeschoolers (or people of minority religions or same sex couples or adoptive families or or or). That is a slippery slope that becomes problematic. Also, Cps can barely handle dealing with the workload they have but we are going to add more to their plates? And why? Because someone in this group or that may abuse a child? First, they aren’t shown to be more likely to abuse. And second, we don’t monitor people “just in case” like that. Families are individual, different, unique. Prejudice should not be a part of social work (I’m aware it *is* but typically we try to curtail that, not do it more).

Any monitoring of home schooling should fall under the Dept of Ed in the state, not CPS or DCF.

I'm not even going to address monitoring of large families.

 

[11223344]

Harts likely received $270G from Texas after adopting kids from Houston area: report
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/0...r-adopting-kids-from-houston-area-report.html
The six children of the couple killed in last month's fatal plunge off a cliff along the Pacific Coast Highway in Northern California had all been adopted in the Houston area, records show.

The San Antonio Express-News reported that Jennifer Jean Hart received monthly adoption subsidies from Texas that “likely” amounted to $270,000 over the last decade.

Hart and her spouse, Sarah Hart, reportedly lived in Minnesota when the six children were adopted from Texas foster care. The first three siblings were adopted in Colorado County in 2006. The second group was adopted from Harris County in 2009.

[...]

That is not really a lot of money for 6 kids for 3 of them 12 years, the other 3 /9 years. Why is this even being put out there? How much to put them in a group home or residential services? They weren't making a lot of money off the kids. It looks like the kids did some fun things, had appropriate clothing, and there was food. It was really the sick, twisted punishment, isolation, using their worst fears against them(withholding food) from kids who had gone without coming from those backgrounds, physical abuse, emotional abuse, and probable lack of outside resources in special educational services, psychological, behavioral, dental, career, etc. To set them up for future, which would have probably been subsidized. I wondered if they pulled Hannah's teeth out because they were growing in poorly or rotting due to whatever deficiciencies or if she had some deficiencies from birth that led to issues--- and wanted medical insurance to pay for dental work due to "accident" but were waiting for mouth to fully mature? Or rather then paying for braces or all kinds of work. But all the other kids have perfect teeth that have to have seen a dentist. I'm not sure what health plans, different years, state plan here has had different dental, and she's a minor, restorative work won't get paid under dental but medical picks up for certain reasons. She does look like someone who's growth has been compromised for some reason and maybe started out that way...born with drugs on board, and without them really networking with services, it hasn't done her any service. Saddest part is that trying to do this all on their own left them stretched, stressed, overwhelmed, and martyrs. When there is so much out there that could have helped. Even respite services for a break. Parent mentors. In home therapy. All covered by insurances and family services. I think the paranoia over authority, which I have seen in a lot of family's, really hinders progress. You can't get help if you don't ask or admit it. These agencies in general want to keep families together. They want to get the services and resources in place to prevent these horrible tragedies from happening. But this case does remind me, with their moving states, of just a real paranoid flavor, the gmo, did they not go outside due to "Chemtrails"? She posts there was a stalker or someone threatening them. The whole KKK thing. Getting threats. Not having visitors? Was Jen not able to hold a job and have a history of Bipolar Disorder? The whole switching a shift to it seems toxic anger and abuse yet this whole other side. I would venture a guess that there were cycles in this household. Between mania and depression, and the children were lost in crossfire. I wouldn't rule out a drinking problem that amped up now and then. And that the initial paranoia about outside resources and fears, kept them continuing down this self destructive path with no way out.
I saw an item questioning Sierra's age by sheriff as motive for holding bodies. Doesn't make sense as I looked and she started kindergarten Sept 2010. she would have been 5, so age 12- turning 13? They're saying they think she's fifteen? I don't know.

 

[waschbaer]

As a lifelong NW coast person, I believe it absolutely. The Pacific ocean is incredibly powerful. Especially this time of year, as big weather fronts come in off the deep ocean and hit the shore with spectacular force. There are a couple of points where the wind regularly hits 90-100 mph during storms, not hurricanes, just storms off the ocean. The waves as tall as an apartment building... yeah stuff gets swept out, people get swept out, and disappear forever. We regularly get stuff on the beaches from Japan.

 

[maggieo]

it was on FB, so I can’t post it, but a defender of the Harts posted a photo and status by Jen Hart. It was photos of the kids and one of her stories about a magical visit to Glass Beach. It looks as though they had a great time there. I’m guessing they spent some time there before their end.

Well, I'm glad to hear that. If I had to pick a place to spend the last day of my life, Glass Beach is not a bad choice.

 

[travelbug]

Any monitoring of home schooling should fall under the Dept of Ed in the state, not CPS or DCF.

I'm not even going to address monitoring of large families.

That is where there oversight should be, however, most home schooling families comply with the regulations and take advantage of the additional available through the various programs. It's the unregistered, under the radar and non-compliant families that exhibit the most troubling concerns. There needs to be more follow up with foster parents, social services, welfare, etc. This case and the Turpin case are classic examples of how a clever parent or guardian can make their family "disappear" from welfare checks and oversight. :banghead: