Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

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Wow. I wonder how this person got access to the uncut video. You can clearly see only the shots looking at the waterfall were intended for public consumption, as the kids don't have their photograph faces on until then.

When you think about multiple takes of that video, you can see that someone weak from starvation (or worse) would likely not be able to participate in this "activity".

EDIT: I just saw someone post that this was a Facebook live video. Seems bizarre to me that Jen would be comfortable recording a video where she couldn't control the finished product.

I see Markis, Jeremiah, Devonte, Ciera, and Abigail. I do NOT see Hannah. Based on the leaves on the ground and everyone's size, I would guess this was from Fall 2017. Was Hannah already dead by that time? I wish the cops would seriously look into that possibility.
 
I seriously doubt that you could get a CRIMINAL conviction when the kids were otherwise healthy, were denying starvation, etc. There would be too much “shadow of a doubt” especially if the kids were known to have behaviors regarding food in other homes (bio, foster, kinship, etc). And many foster and adoption children do act out food issues. The Harts had the children’s pre-adoption case files and could also get medical records from Texas easily enough.


But usually, child abusers aren’t tried in criminal court anyway. The standard bar isn’t set so high. It just has to be pretty likely the case. I’m actually surprised that the CPS history from OR didn’t show evidence by the Harts from Texas or at least when they first got the kids. I’d be very proactive about providing it if it were my rear on the line!

I’m so up in the air about all this. A LOT of adoptive families have significant CPS contact, often due to allegations by the kids. Schools, therapists, neighbors, etc also call when they just aren’t sure what is going on especially when kids have a considerably hard time. It isn’t a mandated reporter’s job to figure out whether this is true or not or happening because of the child’s past or current situation. The belief of foster parents is that it is WHEN you get an investigation, not IF. It’s only a slight bit more positive for us adoptive parents of really challenging children. So part of me wants to take everything with a grain of salt. Then there is the murder, the conviction, and that durn picture of the kids painting. It becomes a lot easier to believe there was a lot going on :(

Yep, I can attest to this. Regarding my own kiddos (foster/adopted) my daughter's teacher was the one who alerted me to call the therapist. The therapist is connected to county health services (because it was a post adoption referral) and then the head of the therapy group was the one who made the call to send my kiddo to the 72-hour psych hold. I was being called by doctors everyday and asked some very personal and frankly terrifying questions which I passed with flying colors, however, when I went to pick my kiddo up at the hospital (yay she's home) I was warned by the county therapist to do everything the doctors said because there is some backlash against adoptive parents at the moment, especially transracially adoptive parents because of this case (believe it or not) and everyone has their investigative eyes on.

So while I absolutely know there was no fault on my part for what my poor kiddo was going through, I was still very much under scrutiny from the county. In fact a team of therapists are coming to the house soon to make a final evaluation and create a better safety plan for my kiddo just to cover all bases. So yes, I think foster and adoptive parents know they are being watched by doctors, teachers, social workers and therapists, probably more so than your average biological family might.

I have to say it would be hard for me to see the abuse if I met this family at a festival, but that being said, we're seemingly not Jen's type of family. In my own world we have many transracially adoptive friends and we have friends with kids of all colors the emphasis being we have friends with kids. I don't see friends with children showing up to defend or give stories about the Harts and the interactions they had with their children. I think they hung out with couples and singles because parents, especially other adoptive parents would probably be able to see stuff a little better. It's really odd to me (yet not surprising) they didn't have any other adoptive parent friends showing up. I mean, us adoptive moms and dads, we seek each other out for several reasons, I really don't know any adoptive families without at least one other adoptive family friend...at least online. I mean you spend a lot of time with adoptive families when you get certified and at some point you befriend people....or not in their case. But if you have kiddos with needs, even just adoption trauma, you know the signs pretty well and the red flags may have been raised faster if they interacted with these kinds of people.

That being said....I don't know what anyone could do but make a report to the police or CPS and that's what was done...so JH and SH got away with hurting their kids and ending all of their lives.
 
This is video of the Hart children taken in the Fall time. Year unknown but it appears recent (Markis particularly reflects this).
Hannah is not in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYvTi5iZkCI

This is beyond terrifying. It feels straight out of a horror movie. So whoever is playing it for us in the youtube video has downloaded onto their computer. All I can say is, thank you, good citizen. Here is proof of the control and stage faces. Was Hannah locked up? Not allowed to participate? They look so skinny here. So depleted. Now you can imagine going to a stranger's house for food. Being marshalled into the car for the last ride.
 
Jen posted photos of her emaciated children. She was hiding in plain sight.

And I think she would have posted a photo of a tooth she had punched out. The post was paragraphs of “I TOLD YOU SO” and triumphant gloating that Hannah got her comeuppance.

Do you mean physically knocked it out? Or she grabbed her head and knocked it against something. I think she posted it just so it would be publicly 'known' that Hannah had lost her tooth through her own fault. I now read the post as she was simply covering her own back if ever anything came of it. She could always say 'she definitely did it herself, i even posted about it at the time'...


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Wow. I wonder how this person got access to the uncut video. You can clearly see only the shots looking at the waterfall were intended for public consumption, as the kids don't have their photograph faces on until then.

This is beyond terrifying. It feels straight out of a horror movie. So whoever is playing it for us in the youtube video has downloaded onto their computer. All I can say is, thank you, good citizen.

More than one person who was Facebook friends with Jen was screen recording videos and recording on their computers videos from Jen's page. Nusheen Bakhtiar, who spoke to the media on the family's behalf recently, also posted screen shots of conversations with Jen and a video of Devonte talking while making burritos for "my siblings." Another friend posted a video of Abigail talking. All of these are from Jen's Facebook so I don't know if they are allowed to be shared here. If they are, there are more that can be shared. I have most of them saved personally.
 
I had to watch that fall robotic video about 6 times. I hardly recognize Devonte without the stage face he plastered on for the "gazing at the waterfall scene". I wonder what "take" director Jen was on. How many times did they have to trudge up & down those stairs. How cold and damp and sick of it, but on cue, they light up. Those poor souls.
Wow, how telling. When Abigail then later Devonte turn their head towards the camera i could see the look of fear in their expressions. I wonder if they were told not to utter a word.

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How would this be handled in a court of law?

What I mean is, let's say they had been charged with (whatever is the right charge for feeding the children way too little), and were in a trial. The prosecution would bring forward the friends as witnesses. The friends would describe the many times they saw the children be denied food, and the school staff would describe the many times the children were hungry. The kids refused to testify against the Harts and the Harts refused to self-incriminate. Is that enough evidence to convict? How about if you throw in the children's weight & height against the charts?
If child abuse charges against the Mumsters came to court, I would hope that the kids would be separated from Jen and Sarah during the trial. That way the kids could meet with a child therapist until they were comfortable enough to talk. The totality of the evidence, behavior, etc., IMO brings creedence to the most significant abuse charges.

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Is it possible that child trafficking/*advertiser censored*/prostitution was a part of all this?
 
I see Markis, Jeremiah, Devonte, Ciera, and Abigail. I do NOT see Hannah. Based on the leaves on the ground and everyone's size, I would guess this was from Fall 2017. Was Hannah already dead by that time? I wish the cops would seriously look into that possibility.
Or tied to her bed as punishment. I would think Devonte would tell the DeKalbs if "something" happened to Hannah, unless he was not unaware. It is my belief though, that Hannah was severely punished for jumping out the window and running to the DeKalbs house.

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Wow, how telling. When Abigail then later Devonte turn their head towards the camera i could see the look of fear in their expressions. I wonder if they were told not to utter a word.

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That terrified look when they turn around. I bet they had to pay a price for that. That is fear. They are all somber with their heads hanging. Until the director gives the “signal” to smile. SMH
 
If child abuse charges against the Mumsters came to court, I would hope that the kids would be separated from Jen and Sarah during the trial. That way the kids could meet with a child therapist until they were comfortable enough to talk. The totality of the evidence, behavior, etc., IMO brings creedence to the most significant abuse charges.

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Well they weren't separated from those womenpreviously when court proceedings were unfolding. Not for even a day to my knowledge.

Is it possible that child trafficking/*advertiser censored*/prostitution was a part of all this?

What evidence is there of that? Is it possible they also harvested their organs for sale? Or engaged in ritual satanic abuse?

I think the evidence we do have of physical abuse, neglect and extreme emotional abuse is quite abhorrent enough. We don't need to go looking for other stuff based on speculation alone.
 
Sigh.


There are "saviors" and there are "damaged goods" in this world.


It is a bias that impacts how all of us react to cases like this, to parents like these and to kids like they were, crying out desperately for help.


Ultimately I believe that bias led to the deaths of six beautiful, intelligent, incredible, innocent kids who anyone would've been lucky to call theirs.


That makes me very upset.


Thank you for this post. I am so baffled and frustrated with people who are bending over backward to make this into anything but a case of child torture, abuse and murder. I registered just so I could say, thank you for this.

I also have no patience for those who excuse this by saying how hard it is to raise traumatized kids from foster care. I know how hard it is, because I have two such kids, and one of them does have RAD. Living with her was so difficult that, even though she has been away at residential treatment for over a year, we still have PTSD from the experience. We felt desperate, and at times in way over our heads. But we didn’t abuse her, or deny her food, let alone murder her. I don’t care how hard it may have been to raise these kids. Nothing excuses what these women did to them. They were systematically tortured and starved for years, and there is never an excuse for that. This case breaks every part of my heart. It makes me wish I believed in an afterlife, so I could believe these women were being punished for what they did.
 
Thank you for this post. I am so baffled and frustrated with people who are bending over backward to make this into anything but a case of child torture, abuse and murder. I registered just so I could say, thank you for this.

I also have no patience for those who excuse this by saying how hard it is to raise traumatized kids from foster care. I know how hard it is, because I have two such kids, and one of them does have RAD. Living with her was so difficult that, even though she has been away at residential treatment for over a year, we still have PTSD from the experience. We felt desperate, and at times in way over our heads. But we didn’t abuse her, or deny her food, let alone murder her. I don’t care how hard it may have been to raise these kids. Nothing excuses what these women did to them. They were systematically tortured and starved for years, and there is never an excuse for that. This case breaks every part of my heart. It makes me wish I believed in an afterlife, so I could believe these women were being punished for what they did.

:heartbeat:

Cases like this are a slap in the face to people like friends of mine within the LGBTQ community who adopted children of color from challenging backgrounds. I have some friends who are super outraged and disgusted and posting a lot about the bias that allowed this horror to persist to its ultimate, preventable end.

It must feel like a slap in the face to you also, as well as to all adoptive parents of kids with challenges. The minimization and justifications or excuse making is awful to me. It truly reeks of bias.

And let me be clear. While I don't ascribe to the savior rescuer of damaged goods myth and stereotype, I think all parents who deal with hardcore challenges with patience and persistence and unconditional love, are heroes. Especially those who choose to do it knowing in advance that their might be difficulties. That's something I don't feel I have the fortitude to do.

So when people try to justify or excuse or deny or soft shoe what obviously happened to these kids and what their evil parents did to those precious babies, to me it is a denunciation of the incredible hard work and unending love real parents put into the kids they accept into their families from difficult situations.
 
[emoji813]beat:

Cases like this are a slap in the face to people like friends of mine within the LGBTQ community who adopted children of color from challenging backgrounds. I have some friends who are super outraged and disgusted and posting a lot about the bias that allowed this horror to persist to its ultimate, preventable end.

It must feel like a slap in the face to you also, as well as to all adoptive parents of kids with challenges. The minimization and justifications or excuse making is awful to me. It truly reeks of bias.

And let me be clear. While I don't ascribe to the savior rescuer of damaged goods myth and stereotype, I think all parents who deal with hardcore challenges with patience and persistence and unconditional love, are heroes. Especially those who choose to do it knowing in advance that their might be difficulties. That's something I don't feel I have the fortitude to do.

So when people try to justify or excuse or deny or soft shoe what obviously happened to these kids and what their evil parents did to those precious babies, to me it is a denunciation of the incredible hard work and unending love real parents put into the kids they accept into their families from difficult situations.
Well said Gitana! Your posts always make so much sense.

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Thank you for this post. I am so baffled and frustrated with people who are bending over backward to make this into anything but a case of child torture, abuse and murder. I registered just so I could say, thank you for this.

I also have no patience for those who excuse this by saying how hard it is to raise traumatized kids from foster care. I know how hard it is, because I have two such kids, and one of them does have RAD. Living with her was so difficult that, even though she has been away at residential treatment for over a year, we still have PTSD from the experience. We felt desperate, and at times in way over our heads. But we didn’t abuse her, or deny her food, let alone murder her. I don’t care how hard it may have been to raise these kids. Nothing excuses what these women did to them. They were systematically tortured and starved for years, and there is never an excuse for that. This case breaks every part of my heart. It makes me wish I believed in an afterlife, so I could believe these women were being punished for what they did.
Great post Mayabeth. Thank you.

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Jen posted photos of her emaciated children. She was hiding in plain sight.

And I think she would have posted a photo of a tooth she had punched out. The post was paragraphs of “I TOLD YOU SO” and triumphant gloating that Hannah got her comeuppance.

Stark, while I am not sure she (Jen) punched out Hanna's two front teeth, because that's a really clean pull, I do agree 1000 percent re the "I told you so" tone of Jen's post on SM. And the photo of her tooth is so macabre. Who publishes that and why?

Who publishes that with no follow up to here's my gorgeous child with her new front teeth?

I have a teeth thing. It wasn't as big a deal in the 70's what with all the teeth whitening products that were nonexistent, but there's no way in hell a 16 year old girl just doesn't want her front teeth. No way. The suffering that kids go through with their braces, and then one day they are liberated with a beautiful smile. Just in time for the prom!

These kids were coming up on their teens, and that mythology is so powerful. My god, it is still some of the most powerful memories I have, a half a decade later.

I am stunned at the contrast of Hannah. This child went from "shining star" child to "yeah right" in all the photographs. I am surprised none of the photographers around this family didn't pick up on that.

So, yes, as you say, "hiding in plain sight" is the correct, right on, tell all, phrase... And, only a very few saw past that.

I have wondered in this heartbreaking case if anyone on the east coast would have picked up on this sham... And honestly, while we are a more skeptical bunch, I don't know...
 
Oh my gosh. Your post has me tearing up a bit. That last paragraph. You should be a writer if you're not already.


I see something else less charitable in the strenuous efforts overall that we've seen in general in these women's histories, with friends and doctors and the legal system and since this horror, among various friends and acquaintances in the public, as well as various people who've commented in comments sections of articles, since the beginning of this case, to give these women the benefit of the doubt while their kids got the burden of doubt.


It's not surprising. They were the "nice", middle class saviors. Their kids were damage goods needing rescuing from the stereotypically dire backgrounds they came from, destined to a horrible life otherwise and burdened with the assumption of their dishonesty due to the "packages" they came in, which made anything they said automatically suspect to many.


Think about the difference. Grandma or aunt (I can't recall) of Devonte, Jeremiah and Ciera, had a nice, safe and stable home for the kids. She fought hard for them. Loved them. They were her blood. But custody was yanked permanently and heartlessly from her for the sin of allowing their birth mother to come over. Once.


Now we look at Jen and Sarah Hart.


Allegation one. They beat Hannah with a belt causing a bruise on her arm. Their excuse that she was running and fell is believed without question and nothing is done. They are allowed to go on to adopt three more children.


Allegation two. Various teachers in Minnesota have witnessed the kids hungry and begging for food. After seeing the kids are punished each time they report to the moms that the kids are hungry, they stop telling the moms that the kids are hungry. And keep feeding them. Hannah reports being hungry but punished with a banana and nuts shoved in her mouth. Sarah tells the school nurse "she's playing the food card. Give her some water." The teachers and nurse must know something is wrong and eventually discuss the issue with CPS officials. But where were the calls to CPS all along?


Allegation three. Abigail has massive bruising after her mother beats her over a bathtub and holds her head under water. For having a penny in her pocket. And being a liar. There's an arrest and investigation. But the main more serious charge is dismissed. None of the children are ever removed, even Abigail, for any period of time, despite evidence of severe abuse. During the investigation other incidences occur and allegations are reported to CPS but not acted on and closed as they are simply "morphed" into the main allegation. Which overall reduces the seriousness. It's like, "yeah we have a problem in that home but they're already under a safety plan so it is being dealt with." What? There is an active CPS investigation and criminal case and during that time about two more allegations surface and again, no escalation of CPS activity? No removal of the kids? The criminal charges are reduced via plea instead of sticking despite the fact that clearly, even while under a microscope, these maniacs are unable to stop themselves from maltreating their kids.


They are given "services" and counseling and allowed to abruptly yank their kids out of school, totally isolating them from any protection, and they're on their way. Why wasn't aunt or grandma given "services"? One strike and she was out. A woman who loved and cared for the kids. But these women? Who brutally beat and bruised a tiny six year old and couldn't stop from abusing them even after the initial arrest, during the investigation?


Allegation five or six (when you consider the additional allegations during the pendency of the bathtub beating case). A couple friends see something terribly, terribly wrong. A CPS worker tries hard to investigate and document the horror and save these kids. It is clear something is very wrong. But a nice doctor, despite examining six very small kids, five of whom are so tiny they aren't even on the growth charts at all, who are from two separate families, and despite the fact that he or she is aware of a CPS investigation and allegations of food withholding, casually determines there is no evidence of abuse or neglect. Maybe the kids are just small genetically or from whatever happened to them previously. It will take several months to determine a baseline. Again these monsters are given the benefit of the doubt. Their precious kids are given the burden of doubt.
They must be damaged goods who are lucky to have been rescued by their saviors. Those women who appear "normal". The kids are returned to their life of isolation and the abuse intensifies.


Allegation seven. A tiny 7 year old (appearing) with no front teeth bursts into a stranger's home, desperate and terrified, having ripped through thorny bushes to escape. She races upstairs to hide behind a bed. She says she's being beaten with belts by her racist mothers. She begs for help. She has never been seen before. She and her siblings are kept prisoner, isolated in their home. The mothers burst in frantically searching for her.
Is there a call to the police? Is there a call to CPS? Nope. Again these charming middle class saviors are given the benefit of the doubt while their kids are given the burden. And sent back into isolation and terror and abuse.


Allegation 8. It's the same as allegation 7 but reported months later to CPS. Despite the seriousness of the situation, no action of any kind is taken. (Remember the stable relative who allowed one visit by the kids' birth mother?)


Allegation 9, 10, 11. Devonte comes over to those same neighbor's home months later. He says he's being starved by his parents as punishment. He begs for food. Food is given but no calls to CPS. No calls to police. Once again, his nice, savior mothers are given the benefit of the doubt while he is given the burden.
Finally, but only after days of begging and asking, "Have you called CPS yet?", the police are called.


It's too late.


Regardless, despite evidence of a prior abuse conviction and the knowledge of what the neighbors witnessed, and the lack of skid marks or swerving, people everywhere find multiple excuses and justifications and alternate explanations for everything that happened in this case:


"I'm unwilling to conclude this was intentional. I need more info."


"Maybe they camped on a high turnout with no guardrail and a frightening cliff face, with six kids and accidentally rolled, or something!"


"Oh they could've fallen asleep and travelled 75 feet across obvious gravel without knowing it."


"It's hard to see in the dark where you're going."


"They might just have been on another camping trip. They didn't pack much because they're spontaneous. It doesn't point to intent!"


"The kids probably did have food issues. Just because they were digging through garbage and begging for food and claiming they were being starved doesn't make it true. Many foster kids have hoarding and bingeing issues."


"They likely just bit off more than they could chew and had a hard time dealing with kids with serious behavioral issues. So they broke down or had some bad moments. They just needed assistance. They needed help not judgment."


"They had mental health issues but they should be idolized. Did you know them? They rescued those kids. Turned their lives around. They were stressed. You don't know them."


"Just because one of these tiny, abused kids , lost her front teeth, which were never replaced due to the ridiculous excuse that a sixteen year old liked the toothless look, doesn't mean it wasn't an accident. I mean my kid lost her teeth. Are you saying I'm an abuser?"


Sigh.


There are "saviors" and there are "damaged goods" in this world.


It is a bias that impacts how all of us react to cases like this, to parents like these and to kids like they were, crying out desperately for help.


Ultimately I believe that bias led to the deaths of six beautiful, intelligent, incredible, innocent kids who anyone would've been lucky to call theirs.


That makes me very upset.

Love your comments. Exactly
 
Yep, I can attest to this. Regarding my own kiddos (foster/adopted) my daughter's teacher was the one who alerted me to call the therapist. The therapist is connected to county health services (because it was a post adoption referral) and then the head of the therapy group was the one who made the call to send my kiddo to the 72-hour psych hold. I was being called by doctors everyday and asked some very personal and frankly terrifying questions which I passed with flying colors, however, when I went to pick my kiddo up at the hospital (yay she's home) I was warned by the county therapist to do everything the doctors said because there is some backlash against adoptive parents at the moment, especially transracially adoptive parents because of this case (believe it or not) and everyone has their investigative eyes on.

So while I absolutely know there was no fault on my part for what my poor kiddo was going through, I was still very much under scrutiny from the county. In fact a team of therapists are coming to the house soon to make a final evaluation and create a better safety plan for my kiddo just to cover all bases. So yes, I think foster and adoptive parents know they are being watched by doctors, teachers, social workers and therapists, probably more so than your average biological family might.

I have to say it would be hard for me to see the abuse if I met this family at a festival, but that being said, we're seemingly not Jen's type of family. In my own world we have many transracially adoptive friends and we have friends with kids of all colors the emphasis being we have friends with kids. I don't see friends with children showing up to defend or give stories about the Harts and the interactions they had with their children. I think they hung out with couples and singles because parents, especially other adoptive parents would probably be able to see stuff a little better. It's really odd to me (yet not surprising) they didn't have any other adoptive parent friends showing up. I mean, us adoptive moms and dads, we seek each other out for several reasons, I really don't know any adoptive families without at least one other adoptive family friend...at least online. I mean you spend a lot of time with adoptive families when you get certified and at some point you befriend people....or not in their case. But if you have kiddos with needs, even just adoption trauma, you know the signs pretty well and the red flags may have been raised faster if they interacted with these kinds of people.

That being said....I don't know what anyone could do but make a report to the police or CPS and that's what was done...so JH and SH got away with hurting their kids and ending all of their lives.

On FB, they have “friends” with kids defending them,
 
Ditto ^^^ to gitana, and human.

Oh god, if only we knew.

And to think that the only possible truths have been extinguished is impossible to bear.

These children, their lives, their stories, have been killed. There's no getting around this tragedy.

To think this investigation started from a GNC SUV and a California cliff to this kind of murderous intent is something I'll never be able to wrap my brain around.

All I can think of is how do we, as humanity, save future children. Children who have no voice.
 
quote : @ debbiegarcia36 & @ onelove220
*^^^^
.....Claudia Fletcher.... She also must be whoever was running "Permanent Family" when they "reopened" in 2011. I'd be interested in knowing if they would be responsible today for these past illegal adoptions.

- She worked as an adoption worker at 'Permanent Family Resource Center' from June 2001 to December 2010 according to her professional profile on LinkedIn then moved to another NGO. There is a thread on Twitter (with documents) about the 'hugggge' net profit Permanent family has made over a course of five years (till 2010). I can't link it here but little search on recent updates will bring it.
Her interview in 2011: http://brendamccreight.blogspot.com.eg/2011/05/interview-with-self-publishing-and-self.html
 
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