CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #17

[mrjitty]

That's a sound theory as far as payments for orders into the Paypal account. For payments out of it, not so much . . . IMO

Yes - i said as much in my post.

However, the 3rd party dev access does in fact give the developer pretty much full access (depending on how many permissions Joey gave) so I was wondering if DK had coded payment requests and other things into sales reporting. So in other words, he might have accessed paypal functionality via the EIP site rather than on the Paypal cloud

One thing we do know is he sent various payment requests to Joey which needed to be approved on Joey's side. Someone must have logged in with Joey's ID to approve those. Wonder what the IP address was?

 

[mrjitty]

This is where it is so frustrating not to have the exhibits

I would love to know if they identified API vs Human logins, and what user ID was used for the website API

 

[InspectorGadget]

VPN? I wonder who would have had Joey's password to log into Paypal.

Do you mean 3rd party developer access to the domain, the website or Paypal?

I'm not sure I follow you as to why Joey would be giving Dan permissions, when Dan was the one who set the whole website/checkout up?

Are you saying that Dan would have had access to EIP Paypal funds from the back end? How does that work?

 

[mrjitty]

VPN? I wonder who would have had Joey's password to log into Paypal.

IIRC no one had it - someone reset it - presumably via accessing Joey's email. I wondered if Mike had been involved in this? Perhaps @Force Ten has an opinion?

Do you mean 3rd party developer access to the domain, the website or Paypal?

3rd party developer access to Joey's paypal account via the API

I'm not sure I follow you as to why Joey would be giving Dan permissions, when Dan was the one who set the whole website/checkout up?

Are you saying that Dan would have had access to EIP Paypal funds from the back end? How does that work?

So when Dan sets up the website shopping cart using paypal as service provider, the website needs a paypal username login so that it can process the transaction on the paypal side, and the funds are credited to the correct account. One way to do this is to use Joey's ID.

But as I understand it, Paypal offers instead, the ability to grant your developer programmatic access to your account, under their own user name. And you can make that highly restricted or broad access

So I guess a very limited access is simply to process credit card payments.

But as I understand you can do almost anything over the API that you can do from the cloud.

e.g. deposits, refunds, statements, payments etc

We really don't know how all this worked.

 

[smr]

in a crisis, and as an equitable partner under a gentleman's agreement there is a case to be made that emergency actions to "save the business"

Applying this terminology to anything DK is involved with is a very generous and liberal use of the word gentleman.

Wonder if JM and CM had a gentleman's agreement that CM could sign checks when JM couldn't. If Dan was a gentleman, then so was Chase.

 

[smr]

Sorry I haven't been following lately.

Reference post #480 and others

As to DK, has anyone seen any documents proving DK was a partner as he claims, no. Just his version of a claimed "gentlemen's agreement" . How convenient that Joseph isn't here to dispute him. Don't read anything into this I do not in any way believe DK had anything to do with the murders and neither does PM.

What would PM say?

I can tell you what I know from past conversations with PM and what he has said on the internet and in interviews and conversations with me. This is MOO from what I have learned through the years.

He has said that he understands that no one had any legal authority to act on Joseph's behalf or to operate EIP. EIP was and remained a "sole proprietorship" since 2006 when PM withdrew from EIP and his partnership with his son Joseph. That was because Joseph's credit had been repaired and he no longer needed to rely on his father's credit. But PM still financial backed Joseph and EIP. No one other than Joseph had any ownership or authority to operate EIP.

Legally when Joseph was known to be missing the only way to "legally" operate EIP required legal filings with a court to be granted authority to act on Joseph and EIP's behalf. None of that was done by anyone in the family or anyone else. Therefore no one had any legal rights to do anything with EIP. Because of what was happening and how it was being done, PM withdrew and did not get involved because he wanted to file with the courts and do it legally and he was disregarded'

You can't simply take over a business without legal authority and operate it without legal authority, which again requires legal filings with the proper court. To open a bank account in a name similar to the EIP name and deposit payments that were payable to EIP is (as I understand) not legal and violates many laws.

This is what I believe and PM believes from what I gathered from my many conversations with him. As I said he has also made some comments about some of this in past interviews and I do believe this is one of the things that has bothered him for a long time.

I also remember on Tricia's radio talk show Patrick said DK had no right to sell the business.

 

[Force Ten]

IIRC no one had it - someone reset it - presumably via accessing Joey's email. I wondered if Mike had been involved in this? Perhaps @Force Ten has an opinion?



3rd party developer access to Joey's paypal account via the API



So when Dan sets up the website shopping cart using paypal as service provider, the website needs a paypal username login so that it can process the transaction on the paypal side, and the funds are credited to the correct account. One way to do this is to use Joey's ID.

But as I understand it, Paypal offers instead, the ability to grant your developer programmatic access to your account, under their own user name. And you can make that highly restricted or broad access

So I guess a very limited access is simply to process credit card payments.

But as I understand you can do almost anything over the API that you can do from the cloud.

e.g. deposits, refunds, statements, payments etc

We really don't know how all this worked.

Per Dan's account he was working with Mike and Susan. Iirc, the money Dan requested on the 6th wasn't released until the 17th. This was most likely released by Mike. More monies were released later to Dan and subsequently money released to Chase (5k) from Dan.

ETA: If Dan was to steal any money and access accounts, why isn't he doing so on the 6th?

 

[missy1974]

VPN? I wonder who would have had Joey's password to log into Paypal.

Do you mean 3rd party developer access to the domain, the website or Paypal?

I'm not sure I follow you as to why Joey would be giving Dan permissions, when Dan was the one who set the whole website/checkout up?

Are you saying that Dan would have had access to EIP Paypal funds from the back end? How does that work?

Joey's password was reset on the 10th of Feb. It was done via the web and was in Joey's paypal account 'activity log'. There was another change on the 12th. (IP info matched IP info from Dan's PayPal account activity)

10th $900

11th $200

12th $800

12 th- 3000 - payment source was different… the bank account was used for the transaction, union bank to fund the purchase.

12th - 1000 - funded with the Union bank account

13th - 3000 echeck - a source of payment, went from Joseph to Dan


There was a request made on the 6th from Dan to Joey for $800... Dan cancelled that request.

 

[mrjitty]

As far as gentleman scoundrels go, this is absolutely why its smarter to con Joey's mum out of 15K to "save the business" than it is to commit fraud with a financial instrument.

 

[missy1974]

Per Dan's account he was working with Mike and Susan. Iirc, the money Dan requested on the 6th wasn't released until the 17th. This was most likely released by Mike. More monies were released later to Dan and subsequently money released to Chase (5k) from Dan.

IMO this is incorrect. The request on the 6th was cancelled by Dan according to his records. On the 18th the $3000 e-check cleared from the 13th. But even if Mike 'released' these, that would give rise to the question as to why on the 13th would Mike be giving anyone permission to access money in his brothers business Paypal account when he thought they were on vacation.

I actually wish we had the times for these transactions (which there might have been but because we only had audio, we didn't get to see them).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There is a basic difference between "the real suspect" and "the real guilty party".



I see some who claim a defendant is guilty just because he is the defendant.

Do you have a post you can give us where any poster said he is simply guilty because he is the defendant? Tia

Personally, I believe Merritt is very much guilty based solely on all of the evidence presented in his trial.

I have no clue what you mean. ??? The 'real suspect' is the one who committed the crime no matter what the defendant's name may be in any given case.

Are you saying when LE announces they have a suspect, and then they are arrested, and charged they arent the suspect?

Anytime LE uses the term 'suspect' it means they have discovered evidence against them that makes them THE suspect status. Other than that they may name someone as a POI without calling them a suspect, meaning they are investigating them, but do not have the evidence at the time to label them the suspect.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

These were the payments after the family was reported missing:

24th - $2000 (?) hard to hear. Paypal funds

March 11th - $3000 - went through

March 25th - $3445 payment - funding source was CC but denied, didn't go through

 

[Force Ten]

Wonder if JM and CM had a gentleman's agreement that CM could sign checks when JM couldn't. If Dan was a gentleman, then so was Chase.

It's apparent that Dan was heavily involved with the website and there is documentation from Joseph to support that.

There is zero evidence to indicate Chase had Joseph's approval to print checks and forge his signature. There's no pattern of this at all.

 

[Karinna]

IMO this is incorrect. The request on the 6th was cancelled by Dan according to his records. On the 18th the $3000 e-check cleared from the 13th. But even if Mike 'released' these, that would give rise to the question as to why on the 13th would Mike be giving anyone permission to access money in his brothers business Paypal account when he thought they were on vacation.

I actually wish we had the times for these transactions (which there might have been but because we only had audio, we didn't get to see them).

As per SB's trial testimony, she gave DK access to PayPal to take care of support payments to JM's oldest son.

 

[Karinna]

It's apparent that Dan was heavily involved with the website and there is documentation from Joseph to support that.

There is zero evidence to indicate Chase had Joseph's approval to print checks and forge his signature. There's no pattern of this at all.

According to the investigators they found no evidence CM had any authority to JM's accounts. Per the SW's.

 

[missy1974]

As per SB's trial testimony, she gave DK access to PayPal to take care of support payments to JM's oldest son.

I believe that was later, not in mid February.

 

[Force Ten]

Joey's password was reset on the 10th of Feb. It was done via the web and was in Joey's paypal account 'activity log'. There was another change on the 12th. (IP info matched IP info from Dan's PayPal account activity)

10th $900

11th $200

12th $800

12 th- 3000 - payment source was different… the bank account was used for the transaction, union bank to fund the purchase.

12th - 1000 - funded with the Union bank account

13th - 3000 echeck - a source of payment, went from Joseph to Dan


There was a request made on the 6th from Dan to Joey for $800... Dan cancelled that request.

I don't recall seeing this. Can you point to an exhibit. TIA.

 

[Karinna]

I believe that was later, not in mid February.

It was whenever SB took control of the business in JM's absence. I don't think she mentioned an actual date? Only the accounts were frozen in March.

 

[missy1974]

I don't recall seeing this. Can you point to an exhibit. TIA.

Day 40 part 2. Sarah Kane from Paypal holdings.

 

[Recidivist]

Wonder if JM and CM had a gentleman's agreement that CM could sign checks when JM couldn't. If Dan was a gentleman, then so was Chase.

The only reason he couldn't is because he was dead.