CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

[Tricia]

On Feb 4th, 2010 the McStay Family, Joey, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph Jr vanished from their home. It looked like the family simply got up and left their home never to return.

Law Enforcement was convinced that the McStay family ran away to Mexico.

Patrick McStay, Joey's father, along with other loved ones knew there was no way Joey and his family would never flee to Mexico. There was no reason for this scenario presented by law enforcement.

Up until the remains of the family were found buried in the desert on November 11, 2013, Patrick McStay searched for his son and his family.

Family friend Chase Merritt was arrested for the McStay family murders on Nov 7th, 2014 and finally, Merritt's first-degree murder trial is underway.

The McStay forum is in our private section. However, we are making the discussion of the trial public.

Link to prior threads
#1 CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

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[Harmony 2]

STOP personalizing posts. Timeouts will be forthcoming if this manner of posting continues.

Differences of opinion are to be expected and are allowed as long as the discussion remains civil and respectful. Looking at something from another angle is the foundation of this forum community. To expect members from all over the world and all walks of life to think the same is unrealistic.

If you don’t agree with a post, either scroll and roll or put the other member on ignore. Do not announce that you are placing someone on ignore- just do it.

Stick to the facts and use links to back up your assertions. If you see a problematic post, hit the alert/report button and move on.

 

[Tortoise]

Defense Opening Statements are now transcribed. Better late than never as they say

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/opening-statements.413276/page-2

 

[Harmony 2]

Continue discussion here.

 

[Mica]

Following

 

[Tortoise]

Returning to the apparent bleach stain on the carpet in the living room next to the flip flops.

When DuGal first went in on the 15th he noted newspapers spread out over the carpet and his impression was it had been laid down to protect the carpet from paint.

The idea that they would protect a carpet which was already substantially ruined with bleach is a discrepancy, IMO.

 

[geevee]

From Missy1974 in previous thread:

I went back and looked quickly at some of the testimony... I started with Jones, but nothing, then went back to Denys Williams (SD tech), she collected the fingerprints from what I understand, but doesn't process them. Went to Heather Radeleff (SB CSI tech that testified), she collected additional fingerprints from the Trooper, but again, didn't process them. Even went back to Dugal's testimony, where the coffee mug is mentioned, but not about fingerprints because of course, Dugal wouldn't have processed them either LOL Soooooooooo ... as of right now, nope, not testimony about it because whoever processed those, hasn't been called as a witness. I believe it would be someone from San Diego and they should have been processed back in 2010 IMO.

I sort of thought the defense would bring it up since it was in their OS, but didn't recall hearing anything on the state's side about it either, thanks for looking back for it.

 

[Force Ten]

Returning to the apparent bleach stain on the carpet in the living room next to the flip flops.

When DuGal first went in on the 15th he noted newspapers spread out over the carpet and his impression was it had been laid down to protect the carpet from paint.

The idea that they would protect a carpet which was already substantially ruined with bleach is a discrepancy, IMO.

Good catch. Also, one wouldn't protect carpet if it was going to be replaced with wood flooring the following week.

 

[la2cabo]

Is the defense allowed to be less than truthful in their closing like they were in their opening? Maybe Mr. Jitty can chime in on the subject.

 

[wary]

Is the defense allowed to be less than truthful in their closing like they were in their opening? Maybe Mr. Jitty can chime in on the subject.

I’m not connected to the legal system in any way, but I’d think they have less room for deception in their closing statement.

For example—and this is purely theoretical—in the opening statement, they could give a detailed description of what a witness they plan to call will say—damming evidence that someone else committed the crime. Then, let’s say they don’t call her. Well, they didn’t have any obligation to call her. They intended to call her, they changed their mind, and they have a right to change their mind.

However, in the closing statement, I’m sure that they can’t get away with describing what she would have said if they HAD called her!

 

[la2cabo]

I’m not connected to the legal system in any way, but I’d think they have less room for deception in their closing statement.

For example—and this is purely theoretical—in the opening statement, they could give a detailed description of what a witness they plan to call will say—damming evidence that someone else committed the crime. Then, let’s say they don’t call her. Well, they didn’t have any obligation to call her. They intended to call her, they changed their mind, and they have a right to change their mind.

However, in the closing statement, I’m sure that they can’t get away with describing what she would have said if they HAD called her!

That makes complete sense. Thank you!

 

[missy1974]

From Missy1974 in previous thread:

I sort of thought the defense would bring it up since it was in their OS, but didn't recall hearing anything on the state's side about it either, thanks for looking back for it.

Yeah, I'm not sure it would be worth the time and effort for a fingerprint on a coffee cup that doesn't match. My first thought would be he stopped to get coffee and handed them his cup, so it could be anyone's. JMO

 

[missy1974]

Returning to the apparent bleach stain on the carpet in the living room next to the flip flops.

When DuGal first went in on the 15th he noted newspapers spread out over the carpet and his impression was it had been laid down to protect the carpet from paint.

The idea that they would protect a carpet which was already substantially ruined with bleach is a discrepancy, IMO.

I don't know why no one asked McGyver about that stain since he was there all week and was even painting the front door, surely he would have known if it was there or not. JMO

 

[Bobcat1]

If you all remember both Jospeh and Summer had real estate licenses which require fingerprints to be taken and on file withthe state.
Also remember the fingerprints from table place mat from the restaurant in Mexico was compared to their fingerprints on file and they did not match any of the McStay's.

 

[Texas Red]

Bill Dwayne Wheeler Sr. – The Charley Project

Regarding the Bill Wheeler missing person case discussed on the last thread. His truck was found a little less than 4 months after the McStay’s disappearance and a little less than 4 miles away from the McStay’s graves. Was he last seen in Vegas or somewhere in between there and where the truck was found? The stories I’ve read are not too clear about this. If so, was he a poker player? This would be a possible common denominator with Merritt along with the location and time frame. The mitigating factors in Merritt’s favor is the body apparently, was never found and it appears this was or is a guy that wanted to disappear.

 

[asyousay]

I just hope they get a conviction as I’m still 50-50 on that.

He is so guilty it’s obvious but a lot was botched unfortunately.

The prosecution really need to hammer home the unhandled tactics that Chase was using to try and conceal his actions. That’s not the sign of somebody who had Joey’s permission to write out cheques.

 

[missy1974]

If you all remember both Jospeh and Summer had real estate licenses which require fingerprints to be taken and on file withthe state.
Also remember the fingerprints from table place mat from the restaurant in Mexico was compared to their fingerprints on file and they did not match any of the McStay's.

ahhh thanks @Bobcat1 Do you know any more about the "not matched" fingerprints?

I have followed another case where the victim was a burned and I am pretty sure that they used items from her home to make a "probable" match. But this easily explains how they could match them in this case

 

[mrjitty]

Is the defense allowed to be less than truthful in their closing like they were in their opening? Maybe Mr. Jitty can chime in on the subject.

My experience is different than Cali procedure

In the NZ (and the UK) the Judge will give a summing up for the Jury, that can include a review of the evidence.

This is critical in these types of cases because the Judge will often set out the various questions and how they daisy chain together.

So for instance, if the defence promised all kinds of evidence that wasn't presented, the judge would note that, and can instruct the jury about what inferences can be drawn.

I believe in California the judge isn't allowed to do that

 

[asyousay]

My experience is different than Cali procedure

In the NZ (and the UK) the Judge will give a summing up for the Jury, that can include a review of the evidence.

This is critical in these types of cases because the Judge will often set out the various questions and how they daisy chain together.

So for instance, if the defence promised all kinds of evidence that wasn't presented, the judge would note that, and can instruct the jury about what inferences can be drawn.

I believe in California the judge isn't allowed to do that

Which makes a lot more sense as if you are going to claim something then prove it or don’t mention it.

 

[wary]

My experience is different than Cali procedure

In the NZ (and the UK) the Judge will give a summing up for the Jury, that can include a review of the evidence.

This is critical in these types of cases because the Judge will often set out the various questions and how they daisy chain together.

So for instance, if the defence promised all kinds of evidence that wasn't presented, the judge would note that, and can instruct the jury about what inferences can be drawn.

I believe in California the judge isn't allowed to do that

In California, the judge will not do what you described.

But, the order of closing arguments is:

Prosecution
Defense
Prosecution...