CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #19

[Frankie Hellis]

So I am reading a book (you all can figure out which one, I’m sure). I understand I must take everything with a huge grain of salt, but something sticks out to me as important and I want to run it by you all.

McGyver is said to have noticed on the 18th the paint tray with paint in it was pushed up under a chair and that he knows when he left on the 3rd the trays were all washed out. I know there was testimony to this effect, at least to the fact that a paint tray had paint in it.

Here is what seems important to me - I don’t think the prosecution made a big enough point about the fact that on the 3rd, McGyver left the trays cleaned and that someone was obviously painting after him leaving on the 3rd. Who was painting and what was painted? Am I out of touch here? I know he said there was paint in the tray when he testified, but for some reason it wasn’t until now that I realized the significance of that. Did you guys pick up on that? The judge didn’t mention it in his laundry list of reasons to continue the trial, right?

I know it could have been Summer or Joey, but really in the 24 hours they were known to be there, what are the odds? They weren’t really even painting much with McGyver, let alone on their own. This is something clearly pointing to a cover up, IMO.

 

[QueenBofOB]

I think he was jealous of Joey because Joey had what CM wanted IMO.

EXACTLY. Including Summer.
IMOP

 

[QueenBofOB]

Agree, and he doesn't even have to scam, and con other victims either. Thank goodness for that because if out more victims would fall prey. At least now other future victims have been protected from his scams, and ripoffs.

Its obvious he never cared anyway about making sure his family had a roof over their head or food on the table. He left that up to Joey to be the man he should have been when Joey was alive.

It's always been about CM, and only him. So he's the one who doesn't have to worry about being taken care of in the last 4 years.

In CJs statement when she said CM cared about no one or anything, she left the most important part out. IMOO.

CM definitely cares about CM only, and he does care about $$$$$$!

Think about it? When he wasn't ripping people of scamming them out of $$$$$, and murdering Joey and his family taking illegal $$$$$$ from the man he had murdered... then what else is CM known as doing besides being a gambling addict?

Yep, digging hoping to strike gold!!

CMs entire adult life was consumed with $$$$$$$!

Whether he had to scam/con many victims to get it or kill 4 or digging hoping to strike it rich his entire universe revolved around himself AND $$$$$$!

Jmo

Truer words never spoken.

 

[LadyL]

Interesting post and hope that this portion of the trial is over soon. Wonder how many of our opinions on CMs guilt or innocence are affected by our views on the death penalty?

Would anyone be interested in creating a poll asking first who believes in DP as punishment for certain terrible crimes? And the 2nd question would be does the defendant deserve the death penalty? I would do it if I knew how.

It might provide insight into how our views and arguments are affected by our stance on this issue. Perhaps not at all.

I'm not sure how to do a double question poll.

I used to not believe in the death penalty. We abolished it here in Canada in the 70's. But following criminal cases has influenced my position. This is one of those cases. I believe he's guilty and I could easily vote for the death penalty if I were on the jury.

ETA: I think I could. I might lack the courage when actually faced with the decision.

 

[smr]

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

The logical answer is that DK is not going to take the stand.

If he did LIE to LE about being in Hawaii, there is no way he is going to allow himself to be trapped into taking an oath and being grilled on the stand. That is a crime right there to lie about a murder case, and give false alibi documents. So if he did lie, he aint going to testify. He is hiding out, deep and low.

If he did have a valid alibi, the defense knows that, and no way are they going to put him on the stand to make them look foolish and dishonest.

So I don't think it is that far of a stretch to say they may have come to an agreement that helps both sides. JMO

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

Now that I think about it, it is the defense that says they cannot find DK. What if the State has him on ice somewhere? And they are going to bring him out later and put him on the stand?

 

[Recidivist]

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5



CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

I don't get it. Is there a point to your post?

 

[Bernina]

I don't get it. Is there a point to your post?

Same here, random multi quote?

 

[missy1974]

So I am reading a book (you all can figure out which one, I’m sure). I understand I must take everything with a huge grain of salt, but something sticks out to me as important and I want to run it by you all.

McGyver is said to have noticed on the 18th the paint tray with paint in it was pushed up under a chair and that he knows when he left on the 3rd the trays were all washed out. I know there was testimony to this effect, at least to the fact that a paint tray had paint in it.

Here is what seems important to me - I don’t think the prosecution made a big enough point about the fact that on the 3rd, McGyver left the trays cleaned and that someone was obviously painting after him leaving on the 3rd. Who was painting and what was painted? Am I out of touch here? I know he said there was paint in the tray when he testified, but for some reason it wasn’t until now that I realized the significance of that. Did you guys pick up on that? The judge didn’t mention it in his laundry list of reasons to continue the trial, right?

I know it could have been Summer or Joey, but really in the 24 hours they were known to be there, what are the odds? They weren’t really even painting much with McGyver, let alone on their own. This is something clearly pointing to a cover up, IMO.

I think before the trial, with the info that was available, most assumed that part of the clean up was painting. I know I did, but no longer do. The search warrants had this in the probable cause affidavit from Det. Steers:

In one of the interviews with McGargar, he stated he went to the McStay residence around February 17th, 2010, at Susan Blake's request because she did not want to be there alone. Blake was Joseph's mother. Blake was cleaning the residence which struck McCargar as odd because he felt it could destroy evidence. This was after the report of the missing family, but prior to SDSO obtaining a search warrant for the residence. As Mccargar walked through the house with Blake, three things struck him as being odd or out of place. The first was a missing futon cover in the dining I family room area, he remembered the futon had a cover. The second was the dried paint in one of the paint trays. McCargar taught Summer how to line the tray with foil to make clean up quicker because Summer complained about cleaning the trays and brushes. The final thing was the clothes all over the floor in the upstairs bedroom. McCargar did not know if Summer was messy, but knew Joseph was not messy based on them being roommates in the past and he would not leave that type of mess.
.....
The presence of dried paint inside the paint tray after McCargar had already cleaned up the tray from the last time he painted and had also taught Summer how to line the paint tray for easier clean up.
.....
One of the attempted ways to clean a scene is to paint over the blood stains, though a correct forensic processing of the crime scene would still show the blood stain, the blood stain would not be visible to the naked eye. The blood stain could also be detected by forensic experts years after it was painted over.​

To me, the above gives me the impression that McG taught her to do this, yet when they were in the house on the 16th (not the 17th as stated above), that the paint tray was not lined, had left over paint in it, and it was an indication that someone other than Summer was painting. JMO

But, in the trial, McG said that it was foil lined like he taught Summer to do in previous days, it just hadn't been removed from the tray. Steers was asked about what he knew also, compared to what he put in his statement for probable cause, which was that there was paint brushes and foil in a paint pan with some left over paint (from interview with Susan). I do not recall if Susan was specifically asked about this.

The defense has implied that it's possible she was painting on the morning of the 5th and was 'interrupted'. IIRC McG was asked if he could tell what she had painted or if she had painted anything and he said that he couldn't because she was basically painting it the same color as it was. McG also says that he was concerned or thought she was interrupted while painting, or something came up (because of the paint tray and brushes being left the way they were).

All JMO

 

[la2cabo]

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5



CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

Since you didn't comment with your post I have no clue what you're trying to convey but I think if the PT thought DK had some mind-blowing information that could help their case they could/would offer DK immunity in exchange for his testimony. My guess is the DT needs him a lot more than the PT does.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I think before the trial, with the info that was available, most assumed that part of the clean up was painting. I know I did, but no longer do. The search warrants had this in the probable cause affidavit from Det. Steers:

In one of the interviews with McGargar, he stated he went to the McStay residence around February 17th, 2010, at Susan Blake's request because she did not want to be there alone. Blake was Joseph's mother. Blake was cleaning the residence which struck McCargar as odd because he felt it could destroy evidence. This was after the report of the missing family, but prior to SDSO obtaining a search warrant for the residence. As Mccargar walked through the house with Blake, three things struck him as being odd or out of place. The first was a missing futon cover in the dining I family room area, he remembered the futon had a cover. The second was the dried paint in one of the paint trays. McCargar taught Summer how to line the tray with foil to make clean up quicker because Summer complained about cleaning the trays and brushes. The final thing was the clothes all over the floor in the upstairs bedroom. McCargar did not know if Summer was messy, but knew Joseph was not messy based on them being roommates in the past and he would not leave that type of mess.
.....
The presence of dried paint inside the paint tray after McCargar had already cleaned up the tray from the last time he painted and had also taught Summer how to line the paint tray for easier clean up.
.....
One of the attempted ways to clean a scene is to paint over the blood stains, though a correct forensic processing of the crime scene would still show the blood stain, the blood stain would not be visible to the naked eye. The blood stain could also be detected by forensic experts years after it was painted over.​

To me, the above gives me the impression that McG taught her to do this, yet when they were in the house on the 16th (not the 17th as stated above), that the paint tray was not lined, had left over paint in it, and it was an indication that someone other than Summer was painting. JMO

But, in the trial, McG said that it was foil lined like he taught Summer to do in previous days, it just hadn't been removed from the tray. Steers was asked about what he knew also, compared to what he put in his statement for probable cause, which was that there was paint brushes and foil in a paint pan with some left over paint (from interview with Susan). I do not recall if Susan was specifically asked about this.

The defense has implied that it's possible she was painting on the morning of the 5th and was 'interrupted'. IIRC McG was asked if he could tell what she had painted or if she had painted anything and he said that he couldn't because she was basically painting it the same color as it was. McG also says that he was concerned or thought she was interrupted while painting, or something came up (because of the paint tray and brushes being left the way they were).

All JMO

It was testified to, but I guess the significance didn’t strike me as it does now. Maybe because McG did not testify how on the 3rd he had washed everything up before he left. Or if he did, it didn’t stick in my sieve of a memory. The sheer importance of knowing the supplies were clean on the 3rd, the family disappeared on the 4th, and the scene afterward (I stated the 18th, but it was the 16th, as you state) shows someone had definitely been painting indicates a strong possibility of a cover up at the house. I sure would like to know what the situation was the first day MM went in there.

What, if any, tests do we know were conducted looking for possible blood under the paint?

 

[missy1974]

It was testified to, but I guess the significance didn’t strike me as it does now. Maybe because McG did not testify how on the 3rd he had washed everything up before he left. Or if he did, it didn’t stick in my sieve of a memory. The sheer importance of knowing the supplies were clean on the 3rd, the family disappeared on the 4th, and the scene afterward (I stated the 18th, but it was the 16th, as you state) shows someone had definitely been painting indicates a strong possibility of a cover up at the house. I sure would like to know what the situation was the first day MM went in there.

What, if any, tests do we know were conducted looking for possible blood under the paint?

I think the fact that the tray was lined with foil like he showed her, at least for me, tells me that it was probably Summer who last used that tray. Would someone else just coincidentally line it like McG showed her a few days previously?

As for the tests, I can't recall right at the moment what Steers said, but they did take paint chips from the walls and kitchen island IIRC and they did swab for blood in certain area's. I'm not sure if they used luminol or something similar or not.

 

[citygirl]

I think the fact that the tray was lined with foil like he showed her, at least for me, tells me that it was probably Summer who last used that tray. Would someone else just coincidentally line it like McG showed her a few days previously?

As for the tests, I can't recall right at the moment what Steers said, but they did take paint chips from the walls and kitchen island IIRC and they did swab for blood in certain area's. I'm not sure if they used luminol or something similar or not.

This is what gives me pause. Didn't it seem as though Summer was running around that day? Grocery store, Ross etc.? This has not been in testimony, I know. But didn't we read about it?

 

[missy1974]

This is what gives me pause. Didn't it seem as though Summer was running around that day? Grocery store, Ross etc.? This has not been in testimony, I know. But didn't we read about it?

that has not been in testimony, so there is no way of knowing if it is true or not right now. I know that in McG's testimony he said on the 3rd when he was there she had errands to run. I feel like Summer has been forgotten about in all of this. Wouldn't it be relevant if she was out shopping all day... for either side? I don't even know if we know what her last call was on her cell phone, what time was it? who was it? I know it might not be really relevant... but still... it's like it didn't matter *sigh* JMO

 

[la2cabo]

that has not been in testimony, so there is no way of knowing if it is true or not right now. I know that in McG's testimony he said on the 3rd when he was there she had errands to run. I feel like Summer has been forgotten about in all of this. Wouldn't it be relevant if she was out shopping all day... for either side? I don't even know if we know what her last call was on her cell phone, what time was it? who was it? I know it might not be really relevant... but still... it's like it didn't matter *sigh* JMO

Summer and her life do seem to have been forgotten about in all of this.

 

[citygirl]

that has not been in testimony, so there is no way of knowing if it is true or not right now. I know that in McG's testimony he said on the 3rd when he was there she had errands to run. I feel like Summer has been forgotten about in all of this. Wouldn't it be relevant if she was out shopping all day... for either side? I don't even know if we know what her last call was on her cell phone, what time was it? who was it? I know it might not be really relevant... but still... it's like it didn't matter *sigh* JMO

I agree, Missy. There are things floating around in my head as to how she spent her last day but nothing I can link to. I think she went to the grocery store, then read that she was in a store purchasing newborn clothes, and 2 adult robes, one of which was missing? Allegedly verified by sales receipts? Perhaps the PT didn't feel they needed to confirm her whereabouts? One would think if it was for any other reason the DT would have brought that to the fore. MOO.

 

[Bernina]

that has not been in testimony, so there is no way of knowing if it is true or not right now. I know that in McG's testimony he said on the 3rd when he was there she had errands to run. I feel like Summer has been forgotten about in all of this. Wouldn't it be relevant if she was out shopping all day... for either side? I don't even know if we know what her last call was on her cell phone, what time was it? who was it? I know it might not be really relevant... but still... it's like it didn't matter *sigh* JMO

Didn't McG have a prenatal appointment on the 4th? And he tried to contact Summer that evening because she wasn't happy he couldn't come that day, and patch things up?

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Didn't McG have a prenatal appointment on the 4th? And he tried to contact Summer that evening because she wasn't happy he couldn't come that day, and patch things up?

No, that was on Monday the first.

 

[Mica]

Didn't McG have a prenatal appointment on the 4th? And he tried to contact Summer that evening because she wasn't happy he couldn't come that day, and patch things up?

I thought Summer told McGyver not to come on the 4th in a text. But somewhere, maybe at the prelim, it was stated McGyver had a prior commitment that day.

 

[missy1974]

Didn't McG have a prenatal appointment on the 4th? And he tried to contact Summer that evening because she wasn't happy he couldn't come that day, and patch things up?

I think that was earlier in the week, the 1st maybe? Because he showed up the next day and 'surprised' her.

 

[Mica]

It all goes to where you just happen to live. If you're close to a desert area, it's a pretty common thing to say. in a wooded area, you'd say the hunters will find the bodies or the bones.
I wonder if MM might have picked that scenario up from the book writer?

Nah, the book writer wasn’t on the case prior to March 2010.