CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

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Tortoise said:
Whoever it is had to have arrived before it left at 7.47 pm.
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yep, that's what the defense was saying, so that vehicle must have been leaving, which leaves me with some more questions LOL IF it was Merritt, he would only have had 1 hour and 12 minutes to get there before 7pm and not be captured arriving on the 1 hour of video they took, if he was leaving, how does that place him there to make the Quickbooks changes? uggh lol more questions lol
 
missy1974 said:
If we find out that they didn't, will that change your mind? or it doesn't matter?

IIRC DuGal said he didn't even know DK had a paypal account. I was surprised at that because in the early months and years, there was a lot of talk about who was accessing the money and if it was legal. Isn't this what Patrick was wanting SD sheriff's dept to look at, or specifically, DuGal?
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The problem for DuGal is he couldn't get any more search warrants. So therefore he only had whatever DK would give him

The difference with the murder police in 2014 is they have way more scope and resource.

For instance, I would suggest, with 4 bodies on their hands, that they were able to get at least phone records for close business associates of Joey McStay

We need to wait to hear from those detectives before we start buying in to the whole DK did it stuff too heavily
 
asyousay said:
No but it goes hand in hand with what the Defense is saying that they was so intent on Chase they didn’t investigate other people properly.

And I didn’t claim he was on trial in my post.
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The defence will use a circular logic.

The lack of evidence around DK proves the police didn't investigate him properly.

Of course more likely is that they didn't find anything one way or the other.

asyousay said:
And I didn’t claim he was on trial in my post.
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The key is that the prosecution does not typically present evidence clearing other possible suspects.

of course if cross examined, i am sure the detectives will be ready for these types of questions
 
missy1974 said:
yep, that's what the defense was saying, so that vehicle must have been leaving, which leaves me with some more questions LOL IF it was Merritt, he would only have had 1 hour and 12 minutes to get there before 7pm and not be captured arriving on the 1 hour of video they took, if he was leaving, how does that place him there to make the Quickbooks changes? uggh lol more questions lol
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I think a person walking on the other side of the street wouldn't have been picked up on that camera. She only had it angled to show the side of the road her house was on and even cars travelling on the opposite side of the street weren't captured in full.

And as mrjitty alludes to what if it was really 7.15pm and the camera is showing 7pm?

I think in the defense cross-examination of Jennifer Mitchley (I'm not entirely clear what the upshot was) but they attempt to show that it is more than one hour of recording because the camera stops and starts in that hour's worth of recording. I think they demonstrated that the video skipped time when the spider moved and again when she put the porch light on creating movement of shadows.
 
mrjitty said:
The defence will use a circular logic.

The lack of evidence around DK proves the police didn't investigate him properly.

Of course more likely is that they didn't find anything one way or the other.



The key is that the prosecution does not typically present evidence clearing other possible suspects.

of course if cross examined, i am sure the detectives will be ready for these types of questions
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Well when asked DuGal couldn’t actually confirm that he did have concrete evidence that DK was in Hawaii.


Also I just want to say I am not being argumentative for the sake of it. Unlike us on here these judges need to be 100% certain Chase is guilty so i am just pointing out the stuff that makes me think mistakes were made and it makes me wonder. We have months and months to go obviously but we can only post on the here and now so at the moment some things certainly make me raise my eyebrows.
 
missy1974 said:
There is no indication that the time was off as far as I know. Was there testimony about it being off?
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Not that I know of - but I also haven't seen anything to suggest the timing was confirmed?

The issue is I have lots of devices and home and the clocks can differ by a few mins. Right now, there are 2 that are not adjusted after daylight saving for example, that are 1hr out.

But i think as far as closing arguments go, there might be wiggle room between the security clock and the phone clocks (which will be hard to challenge).
 
asyousay said:
Well when asked DuGal couldn’t actually confirm that he did have concrete evidence that DK was in Hawaii.


Also I just want to say I am not being argumentative for the sake of it. Unlike us on here these judges need to be 100% certain Chase is guilty so i am just pointing out the stuff that makes me think mistakes were made and it makes me wonder. We have months and months to go obviously but we can only post on the here and now so at the moment some things certainly make me raise my eyebrows.
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I don't think DuGal matters so much. He was clearly a bit lazy, but also he had no bodies

I will be very surprised if the murder detectives who caught 4 bodies were so lax about checking out Hawaii

Indeed if the Hawaii story is bogus - wouldn't that be one of the easiest things to crack wide open?
 
asyousay said:
Also I just want to say I am not being argumentative for the sake of it.
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Completely get that! Arguing the evidence is the fun part!

I agree DuGal was asleep at the wheel. But i doubt this case was handed to second rate homicide detectives in 2014 given the sensitive nature.
 
Mica said:
Bessie posted a spreadsheet of EIP financial transactions years ago. Based on the info she had 4 payments were sent from the PayPal account to DK from Jan. 4 - Jan. 19 each in the amount of $100. Then on Feb. 6th a request was put in by DK for $800. There was another request to transfer funds to PayPal from bank account by an unknown on Feb. 6th for $2000. That transfer was completed on Feb. 9th.

According to these records the $800 request by DK did not follow the pattern of how JM paid him. He was paying him in increments of $100. Same in Dec. 2009 with the exception of two $50 payments.

Post 318
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/earth-inspired-products-eip.190778/page-16
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Do we know who authorised the PP payments?

And how did the PP records get into the public domain?
 
mrjitty said:
Completely get that! Arguing the evidence is the fun part!

I agree DuGal was asleep at the wheel. But i doubt this case was handed to second rate homicide detectives in 2014 given the sensitive nature.
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Yes, and considering the fact that it took SB nearly a year to the date that the bodies were found to arrest CM says (to me, at least) that they well investigated anyone with a possible motive.

Not to mention the judge barring the defense from introducing much of their 3rd party "evidence" during trial also says (to me) that the judge didn't mind much compelling in it.
 
I guess I am just pretty cynical about a defense opening that is not "our client is innocent" but is much more he probably did it but here comes death by 1000 cuts

And if DK had flight documents, he cannot have created them after the event - so it is most likely he did in fact travel.

These are easy things that the murder police will have been all over.
 
mrjitty said:
I guess I am just pretty cynical about a defense opening that is not "our client is innocent" but is much more he probably did it but here comes death by 1000 cuts

And if DK had flight documents, he cannot have created them after the event - so it is most likely he did in fact travel.

These are easy things that the murder police will have been all over.
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DK was a hacker and very good with computers so he could of easily of made up a reservation for dates he claimed he flew. I think even I could do it in photoshop it would be a pretty simplistic thing to mock up.

I am not saying he did that but for somebody who’s livelihood was computers I don’t think it’s any stretch he could do that.
 
asyousay said:
DK was a hacker and very good with computers so he could of easily of made up a reservation for dates he claimed he flew. I think even I could do it in photoshop it would be a pretty simplistic thing to mock up.

I am not saying he did that but for somebody who’s livelihood was computers I don’t think it’s any stretch he could do that.
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But when LE would contact the airline to confirm this travel (as he'd have no reason to suspect they wouldn't during their investigation) he'd move up on the suspect list for giving himself a false alibi, no?

Also, when he called in the very first welfare check for the McStays, he gave his location as Hawaii, checking the phone records for that call to LE and where it originated would be a simple matter, I'd think.
 
geevee said:
But when LE would contact the airline to confirm this travel (as he'd have no reason to suspect they wouldn't during their investigation) he'd move up on the suspect list for giving himself a false alibi, no?

Also, when he called in the very first welfare check for the McStays, he gave his location as Hawaii, checking the phone records for that call to LE and where it originated would be a simple matter, I'd think.
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But they never checked the airline from what DuGal said. They took his word for it from what they said.

Hopefully as DK is the fall guy for the Defense we will hear more about this one way or the other.
 
asyousay said:
But they never checked the airline from what DuGal said. They took his word for it from what they said.

Hopefully as DK is the fall guy for the Defense we will hear more about this one way or the other.
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But surely the 2014 homicide police checked all this seeing as they investigated for a year and could get warrants?
 
geevee said:
But when LE would contact the airline to confirm this travel (as he'd have no reason to suspect they wouldn't during their investigation) he'd move up on the suspect list for giving himself a false alibi, no?

Also, when he called in the very first welfare check for the McStays, he gave his location as Hawaii, checking the phone records for that call to LE and where it originated would be a simple matter, I'd think.
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Exactly.

Once the bodies turned up in 2014 LE would break his alibi straight away - but in actual fact, it was Chase's alibi got broke
 
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