CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[Plo_Koon]

It does make a difference. One requires someone to physically be at the computer and clicking or typing things in. A scan does not require anyone to be on the computer, clicking or typing things on the keyboard, or even in the home.

So the State says that Merritt MUST have been in the home, or implied it, because an Intuit bookmark was accessed on the 5th. And then we find out that it was part of a system scan or the system accessed the file and not the user, that is a big difference IMO.

It may be a difference, it may be a big difference, but it doesn't outweigh the other factors that seem to implicate CM, MOO.

 

[Plo_Koon]

It does read like that, because that is how I feel about it. They literally took one little snip, one file from 27,000 other accessed files around that same time, and had Schroeder testify that it was USER accessed. Of course that bookmark was an Intuit/QB's bookmark.

Here is the testimony from Day 17 on direct about the bookmark (43:54):

And all I'm saying is that I'm not privy to conversations that went on in the prosecution's office so I can't say 100% factually that they maliciously said "Hey, let's do this and hide this from this witness". Testimony is one thing but I don't feel I can speak to the motive. May have been an oversight or 100 different things. Let's not act like these defense attorney's are above reproach or sneaky lawyer tactics either. MOO.

 

[Tortoise]

Can anyone remember whether Mikey has ever said either in court or before that the computers were switched on or off when he went in through the window on Feb 13th?

 

[missy1974]

I still haven't listened to testimony yet - I'm about to.

What about the computer activity at 2 am on the 8th - did they cover that do you know?

I am still trying to catch up on testimony as well. The last few days I did catch bits and pieces, and I have some thoughts about it, but until I listen to it all, I won't post my thoughts. And I might wait anyway... nothing major was brought out with this witness IIRC, but the questions asked give me reason to believe we will hear more about it later in the trial with someone that did more than just run reports that he was asked to run.

 

[missy1974]

And all I'm saying is that I'm not privy to conversations that went on in the prosecution's office so I can't say 100% factually that they maliciously said "Hey, let's do this and hide this from this witness". Testimony is one thing but I don't feel I can speak to the motive. May have been an oversight or 100 different things. Let's not act like these defense attorney's are above reproach or sneaky lawyer tactics either. MOO.

I hope I have made it clear that it's my opinion, and that's how I felt. I somewhat expect that kind of behaviour from a defense lawyer lol

IMO I hold prosecutors to a higher standard, I guess they should all be held to that standard, but I have watched enough trials to know that it's usually the defense that is pulling stunts. This trial so far has been so very different than what I expected it to be!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The lack of tweets is amazing to me!!! Cricket said that there was reporters there, I guess they aren't tweeting, or I can't find them LOL

The searches/screenshots weren't entered into evidence because it was a motion hearing that the court was dealing with before testimony started yesterday. They had a late start because a juror had a medical appt., so I guess they were trying to use that time wisely.

The identity thing. The judge said that there was a search related to change of identity, but the title of the search was "how to change identity, the strange story of the McStay family" (which was an article... fwiw, I searched for an article with that name and couldn't find it lol) The judge originally excluded it (assuming pre-trial motions) because there was no indication that Merritt ever took any steps to conceal his identity, move, hide, etc. The State filed a motion for reconsideration... they want to still bring in things from CM's phone, the judge still finds that most is irrelevant... EXCEPT 3 or 4 items, in conjuction with each other he thinks is relevant....from my notes: Allow the people to put on evidence with regard to close up photo of tire tracks, a search related to US borders (then the reference to changing identity) and screenshot of Joey's cell phone records and contact list.

The judge says that there are contrary arguments, and it will take time, but he is allowing those items that are bolded in now.

I hope that helps and clears it up a bit for you!

The judge had heard the arguments pre-trial, with witnesses telling him what these things were. We didn't get to see the screenshots or the article, and we won't until someone is on the stand and they are entered into evidence.

I do agree that the timing is everything. If it was a search for 'How to change your identity, the strange story of the McStay family' doesn't indicate to me that he was searching on how to change his identity. (there have been many many articles about them changing identity, and Summer having changed her's, more than once). He did however do a search related to US borders, that to me is probably more relevant IMO Because nothing seems to be what they say it is... I will reserve judgement LOL

If you would like to listen to it yourself... this youtube should start at the time or not LOL it starts at 9:40 ... that the judge was discussing all of this:

Thank you. Yes, it does help a lot. I will watch it when I have more time.

I certainly think all three should be allowed to come in. It's the jury's job what weight to give each one.

I don't think it's necessary to prove CM never tried to change his identity. The important issue is he searched how to do so whether he ever did it or not. Imo, it goes to his mindset at the time and the timing is very important.

I dont think Summer changing her name has any importance whatsoever compared to the accused nurderer x 4... searching how to change identity. That's comparing apples to oranges, imo.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

Can anyone remember whether Mikey has ever said either in court or before that the computers were switched on or off when he went in through the window on Feb 13th?

I asked the same yesterday! I don't think anyone has ever asked him and since he did take at least one out of the house, he should recall whether he had to shut it down or not before he took it.

We have too many computers to count in our house lol we have 5 that are rarely shut off. I have been using laptops for 15 years (I used to work online) and I never shut mine down at night or anytime unless I'm going away and not taking it with me. Hubby doesn't shut down his desktop at night. And my kids don't shut theirs off either I don't think. Basically, the only time computers get shut down in my house is when we lose power LOL And even then... I have a backup battery and a hotspot for mine haha

 

[missy1974]

Thank you. Yes, it does help a lot. I will watch it when I have more time.

I certainly think all three should be allowed to come in. It's the jury's job what weight to give each one.

I don't think it's necessary to prove CM never tried to change his identity. The important issue is he searched how to do so whether he ever did it or not. Imo, it goes to his mindset at the time and the timing is very important.

I dont think Summer changing her name has any importance whatsoever compared to the accused nurderer x 4... searching how to change identity. That's comparing apples to oranges, imo.

Imo

I do agree ocean, but I will caution that it sounds like the "identity search" may not have been anything more than the article "how to change identity, the strange story of the McStay family", so until we have more information, I am not going to speculate to much!

HOWEVER, it sounded like he did another search related to US borders, this one might be more relevant.

 

[katydid23]

During redirect [around 39:30]

Henke was asked about the phone calls and the QB records---The prosecutor said 'you were aware that Joey and Chase regularly called each other multiple times a day, correct?

A=Correct.

Q; And you were asked specifically about Feb 4th, correct?

A Correct:

Q:And there was a particular call made from Joeys cell at 8:28 pm, correct?

And this is what the defense previously showed you on the overhead...before...with that particular call...do you see it reflected there from Mr McStays phone to the defendants phone?

A Yes...

Q; That occurred like 20 minutes after the last Book activity, right?

A Right...

Q: And if I can show you A portion of Mr McStsy's records......On the 4th, do you see a series of phone calls between them ?

A yes...

Well they go on and on to finally explain that the call the defense spoke about, at 8:28, "IS NOT REFLECTED ON THE DEFENDANTS PHONE LOGS, IS IT

A-No, it's not there...

Q And how many of these calls , that were between the 2, went straight to voicemail?

A Six....

OBJECTION...sustained

[So the prosecution pokes a few holes in that claim by the Defense that all of this QB check activity coincides with calls from Joey. ]

 

[fridaybaker]

Those searches are interesting.

Please excuse if this has come up before -I don't have much time to keep up with this. However, JM is referencing the Mexico travel related computer searches here: Remember that they purchased Spanish language tapes off of Craigslist? Actually, I think Spanish and Italian. IIRC, LE was able to track down the people from whom they purchased them -they were delivered to Joey at a soccer game.

We had long discussions here in the past. So strange -Spanish (perhaps related to travel to Mexico searches) but Italian? Summer was, apparently, infatuated with all-things Italian at the time, but interesting that one would buy two different foreign language programs. I think most of us at the time chalked it up to: Spanish for possible travel to Mexico (considering those computer searches) and perhaps Italian just because. At any rate, I do think those tapes point in the direction of Mexico plans on the part of the McStays.

A

 

[katydid23]

Chase never claimed to have Master Administrator authorization. He was only attempting to cancel the on-line Quickbooks account specific to his work with Joey: CUSTOM. He and Joey may not have realized that Chase would need the master authorization info to do this OR Chase was setting things in motion and believed Joey would take care of that end of things when he reappeared.

It all seems pretty innocent to me.

Innocent?
He pretended to be Joseph McStay, in order to cancel the subscription and delete an account , of which he has no legal authority to do. And he did so, immediately after he fraudulently signed checks for about 15,000 bucks, on that same account.

I'd hardly call that innocent. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I asked the same yesterday! I don't think anyone has ever asked him and since he did take at least one out of the house, he should recall whether he had to shut it down or not before he took it.

We have too many computers to count in our house lol we have 5 that are rarely shut off. I have been using laptops for 15 years (I used to work online) and I never shut mine down at night or anytime unless I'm going away and not taking it with me. Hubby doesn't shut down his desktop at night. And my kids don't shut theirs off either I don't think. Basically, the only time computers get shut down in my house is when we lose power LOL And even then... I have a backup battery and a hotspot for mine haha

Yeah so it's pretty significant info - if the machine was off it wouldn't be running updates and someone had been in there and turned it off after the updates.

It's one thing to talk about eggs being out as unusual but more importantly to my mind would be if the computer was on or off. On doesn't necessarily indicate anything unusual but in the context of the family deciding to go on vacation it probably would be.

 

[Plo_Koon]

I hope I have made it clear that it's my opinion, and that's how I felt. I somewhat expect that kind of behaviour from a defense lawyer lol

IMO I hold prosecutors to a higher standard, I guess they should all be held to that standard, but I have watched enough trials to know that it's usually the defense that is pulling stunts. This trial so far has been so very different than what I expected it to be!

You certainly have made it clear, and I hope I have done the same as well. It really is a lot different than I expected also. It sure would be nice if the trail and testimony was more continuous throughout the week. It's just somewhat annoying to get bits and pieces and then having to wait a week to get more bits and pieces, and then having to try to remember and connect all those pieces.

 

[missy1974]

Please excuse if this has come up before -I don't have much time to keep up with this. However, JM is referencing the Mexico travel related computer searches here: Remember that they purchased Spanish language tapes off of Craigslist? Actually, I think Spanish and Italian. IIRC, LE was able to track down the people from whom they purchased them -they were delivered to Joey at a soccer game.

We had long discussions here in the past. So strange -Spanish (perhaps related to travel to Mexico searches) but Italian? Summer was, apparently, infatuated with all-things Italian at the time, but interesting that one would buy two different foreign language programs. I think most of us at the time chalked it up to: Spanish for possible travel to Mexico (considering those computer searches) and perhaps Italian just because. At any rate, I do think those tapes point in the direction of Mexico plans on the part of the McStays.

A

oh my.. I recall all the discussion about the Spanish/Italian tapes!

 

[missy1974]

Innocent?
He pretended to be Joseph McStay, in order to cancel the subscription and delete an account , of which he has no legal authority to do. And he did so, immediately after he fraudulently signed checks for about 15,000 bucks, on that same account.

I'd hardly call that innocent. JMO

Right. If that's how it happened, I don't understand why he wasn't charged, especially in light of his criminal history. JMO If it is so clear as day, surely he would have been convicted.

 

[missy1974]

Yeah so it's pretty significant info - if the machine was off it wouldn't be running updates and someone had been in there and turned it off after the updates.

It's one thing to talk about eggs being out as unusual but more importantly to my mind would be if the computer was on or off. On doesn't necessarily indicate anything unusual but in the context of the family deciding to go on vacation it probably would be.

I agree. And even if the defense is going to say that Dan "remotely accessed" the computers, those computers would have to be on for him to do that.

I expect that their main computers were possibly turned on, regardless of what time it happened, because they weren't planning on taking a Mexico trip, and they certainly weren't planning on being murdered. But everyone's habits are different, and they did have 2 little boys, when my kids were younger, we shut them down more so they couldn't get on there and mess with them.

 

[Tortoise]

[So the prosecution pokes a few holes in that claim by the Defense that all of this QB check activity coincides with calls from Joey. ]

rsbm

And since the call on 4th did not connect, with no calls ever made by Joey after that, the defense is only talking about Chase' QB activity on Feb 1st and 2nd.

edited for correctness

 

[missy1974]

You certainly have made it clear, and I hope I have done the same as well. It really is a lot different than I expected also. It sure would be nice if the trail and testimony was more continuous throughout the week. It's just somewhat annoying to get bits and pieces and then having to wait a week to get more bits and pieces, and then having to try to remember and connect all those pieces.

The trial time has worked out well for me so far with work lol it's given me more than enough time to keep up. I was thinking about the jury... the time off could be good or it could be bad... memory is only so good... and it gives them way more time to think (and yes... way more time to maybe not follow the rules imposed on them lol), but yet, it gives them a break from it as well, and some might like that. It would be hard to sit there through some of the boring testimony for 8 hours a day every day.

 

[katydid23]

Right. If that's how it happened, I don't understand why he wasn't charged, especially in light of his criminal history. JMO If it is so clear as day, surely he would have been convicted.

They are essentially trying to convict him of that right now. They don't care about the charges because the sentencing is rolled into the quadruple murders. The charges are unnecessary. But the information about what he did is important to the motive behind the murders.

Personally, I think it is clear as day that he wrote those checks his own. He was behind on his rent, but still gambling enough to lose hundreds, if not thousands each month at local casinos.

What are the odds that he was caught up in that type of a gambling binge, and it coincidentally was at the same exact time that his boss secretly decide to give him more access and control of his business checking account, which was same exact time that said boss went missing, along with his entire family?

 

[missy1974]

rsbm

And since the call on 4th went to voicemail, with no calls ever made by Joey after that, the defense is only talking about Chase' QB activity on Feb 1st and 2nd.

Which call went to VM? 8:28pm Joey's to Chase's phone call? It didn't connect at all to Chase's phone.