CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

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Texas Red said:
Since there’s no accurate timeline as to when the murders took place or exactly when the Trooper was dropped off or where CM was at any given time since his phone was off makes this nothing more than speculation. What the prosecution is really saying is since CM’s phone was off at a certain time, then that must be the time that the murders took place and the Trooper was dropped off.
Click to expand...

I disagree that it is speculation because the entire web of circumstantial evidence must be considered together rather than henpecked point by point

So if his phone was off, at the same time someone cut a cheque to CM at the home of the McStays, at the time they disappeared - this is powerful.

Then, given the above if his phone goes off again, at the same time someone dumps the missing vehicle - that adds to the circumstantial web
 
Tortoise said:
Really? I thought phones intermittently ping off towers, regardless of usage, unless they are disconnected/put in airplane mode.
Click to expand...

Yes - they ping the tower periodically - this is how the network knows how to allocate resources to your phone

And when a call comes in the network looks to find your phone at the last tower you connected with

Turning off the antenna causes the phone to sign off from the tower, for the same reasons.
 
mrjitty said:
Yes - they ping the tower periodically - this is how the network knows how to allocate resources to your phone

And when a call comes in the network looks to find your phone at the last tower you connected with

Turning off the antenna causes the phone to sign off from the tower, for the same reasons.
Click to expand...

Just jumping off your post because I said earlier that I would go back and look...

This is from the preliminary hearing, these are questions I think the judge is asking at the end of the FBI guys testimony:

14 Q Okay, that's good.
15 Technically, if someone has a cell phone, cell phone is
16 on, not in airplane mode, they're driving up Interstate 15, not
17 receiving any phone calls, not making any phone calls and not
18 getting or receiving any texts, is the cell phone going to
19 bounce off of any cell towers?
20 A It won't reflect in the records until the cell phone is
21 in communications with the cell towers. The company needs to
22 know that, but that information is not stored in the course of
23 business with the phone companies. So, unless there's activity
24 on the phones, we won't get that.
25 Q So, if someone is out in the area of a cell phone tower,
26 their phone is on but they're not receiving or making calls,
27 there's nothing to indicate the phone was there?
28 A Correct.
98
1 Q It's only if they make or receive a call that it will
2 generate the information that you put up on Exhibit No. 1?
3 A Yes, sir. The only exception is occasionally you can get
4 the use of data on the phone. But, again, there's activity in
5 the phone.
​
My understanding of the above is that they do not or didn't have the pings that happen regardless of whether the phone active or not. They had the information from phone activity. So to me, no activity doesn't automatically mean that he didn't have his phone on. JMO When Merritt got calls that went to voicemail and didn't register a tower, they can conclude that it was either off, in airplane mode, or out of range.

There are different reports that the phone companies can get, I think there are also time constraints on those reports, I have no idea when they obtained the records.


State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

Early in his testimony, he also says this:

12 A Sure. So, cell phones, when you communicate with them,
13 they maintain communications with cell towers. Those cell
14 towers usually are in the vicinity of the, of where the cell
15 phone is located. The tower that the phone chooses is due to
16 the signal strength.
17 And by analyzing records that the cell phone companies
18 give us, it allows us to get a general area of where a cell
19 phone is located when a call was made or received.​
 
We are on lunch break. Geesh, this trial is going to take forever!

I am going to have to rewatch some of this testimony, my feed kept stopping, hopefully the playback will be okay.
 
Article on detecting latent blood under paint: Experimental Detection of Blood Under Painted Surfaces
I believe the majority of us who have been here from the beginning believe the murders did NOT happen in the house. I haven't seen anything from LE in the past which would have indicted they had found blood in the house under the painted surfaces, even after the house was sold later on.

The case can also be made that if MM's partial DNA was on items in the grave (possible screw driver, knife, hammer, etc.) it was part of his painting job.
 
mrjitty said:
I disagree that it is speculation because the entire web of circumstantial evidence must be considered together rather than henpecked point by point

So if his phone was off, at the same time someone cut a cheque to CM at the home of the McStays, at the time they disappeared - this is powerful.

Then, given the above if his phone goes off again, at the same time someone dumps the missing vehicle - that adds to the circumstantial web
Click to expand...
We know when the abandoned Trooper was first noticed however, the specific time it was abandoned is unknown.

Concerning the other point, the only conclusion that can be drawn is CM’s phone was not pinging a cell tower durning the time a check was printed to CM on MM potentially compromised computer. If the prosecution wants a conviction they better start coming up with evidence that’s more convincing than this.
 
The dread cell phones and computers.......nightmare scenarios like the Arias trial.
 
Texas Red said:
We know when the abandoned Trooper was first noticed however, the specific time it was abandoned is unknown.

Concerning the other point, the only conclusion that can be drawn is CM’s phone was not pinging a cell tower durning the time a check was printed to CM on MM potentially compromised computer. If the prosecution wants a conviction they better start coming up with evidence that’s more convincing than this.
Click to expand...

that is now how circumstantial evidence is to be evaluated.

all the relevant data points have to be considered together, from which an inference can be drawn
 
I have been here since the beginning.
I believe the San Bernadino LE when they state, the murders took place in the house.
I'm sure they have evidence to back up that statement.

Bernina said:
Article on detecting latent blood under paint: Experimental Detection of Blood Under Painted Surfaces
I believe the majority of us who have been here from the beginning believe the murders did NOT happen in the house. I haven't seen anything from LE in the past which would have indicted they had found blood in the house under the painted surfaces, even after the house was sold later on.

The case can also be made that if MM's partial DNA was on items in the grave (possible screw driver, knife, hammer, etc.) it was part of his painting job.
Click to expand...
 
missy1974 said:
Just jumping off your post because I said earlier that I would go back and look...

This is from the preliminary hearing, these are questions I think the judge is asking at the end of the FBI guys testimony:

14 Q Okay, that's good.
15 Technically, if someone has a cell phone, cell phone is
16 on, not in airplane mode, they're driving up Interstate 15, not
17 receiving any phone calls, not making any phone calls and not
18 getting or receiving any texts, is the cell phone going to
19 bounce off of any cell towers?
20 A It won't reflect in the records until the cell phone is
21 in communications with the cell towers. The company needs to
22 know that, but that information is not stored in the course of
23 business with the phone companies. So, unless there's activity
24 on the phones, we won't get that.
25 Q So, if someone is out in the area of a cell phone tower,
26 their phone is on but they're not receiving or making calls,
27 there's nothing to indicate the phone was there?
28 A Correct.
98
1 Q It's only if they make or receive a call that it will
2 generate the information that you put up on Exhibit No. 1?
3 A Yes, sir. The only exception is occasionally you can get
4 the use of data on the phone. But, again, there's activity in
5 the phone.
​
My understanding of the above is that they do not or didn't have the pings that happen regardless of whether the phone active or not. They had the information from phone activity. So to me, no activity doesn't automatically mean that he didn't have his phone on. JMO When Merritt got calls that went to voicemail and didn't register a tower, they can conclude that it was either off, in airplane mode, or out of range.

There are different reports that the phone companies can get, I think there are also time constraints on those reports, I have no idea when they obtained the records.


State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

Early in his testimony, he also says this:

12 A Sure. So, cell phones, when you communicate with them,
13 they maintain communications with cell towers. Those cell
14 towers usually are in the vicinity of the, of where the cell
15 phone is located. The tower that the phone chooses is due to
16 the signal strength.
17 And by analyzing records that the cell phone companies
18 give us, it allows us to get a general area of where a cell
19 phone is located when a call was made or received.​
Click to expand...

Hmmm

This seems odd

For instance, I make a call to a colleague from London in the morning and ask him to ring me at midday. I turn my phone off. As far as the network is concerned I am at LHR. Then i fly to germany and turn my phone on at 11:45am. 15mins later my colleague calls and my phone rings in germany.

The reason the network can route the call to germany is that my phone said goodbye at the London airport tower and then when I turned it on in germany, it shook hands with a local german tower. This data then tells the network, where on the european network to find my phone, when the call is inbound at midday.

So maybe what the guy is saying is they simply cannot report on that info?
 
KALI said:
I have been here since the beginning.
I believe the San Bernadino LE when they state, the murders took place in the house.
I'm sure they have evidence to back up that statement.
Click to expand...
I thought it was determined that MM was murdered first after lunch, and Summer and the kids were drawn out of the house under false pretenses? The bridge where the cell phones were assumed to be dumped?
 
KALI said:
I have been here since the beginning.
I believe the San Bernadino LE when they state, the murders took place in the house.
I'm sure they have evidence to back up that statement.
Click to expand...


Really?

I’m not convinced after today as they are trying to obviously prove that Chase painted but McG can’t be sure if that’s how he left the paint tape.

They certainly have not mentioned any blood evidence today under the painting.

Also why would blood splatter only get onto the skirting board and nowhere else? - blood would splatter yet all the places i saw today was skirting boards had been painted.

But we shall see where we are in a few weeks time as at the moment it all seems to be ‘reaching’.
 
mrjitty said:
Hmmm

This seems odd

For instance, I make a call to a colleague from London in the morning and ask him to ring me at midday. I turn my phone off. As far as the network is concerned I am at LHR. Then i fly to germany and turn my phone on at 11:45am. 15mins later my colleague calls and my phone rings in germany.

The reason the network can route the call to germany is that my phone said goodbye at the London airport tower and then when I turned it on in germany, it shook hands with a local german tower. This data then tells the network, where on the european network to find my phone, when the call is inbound at midday.

So maybe what the guy is saying is they simply cannot report on that info?
Click to expand...
The ping data is recorded but not reported, if LE requests the data it is available but only for a short period of time and then it’s purged.
 
asyousay said:
Really?

I’m not convinced after today as they are trying to obviously prove that Chase painted but McG can’t be sure if that’s how he left the paint tape.

They certainly have not mentioned any blood evidence today under the painting.

Also why would blood splatter only get onto the skirting board and nowhere else? - blood would splatter yet all the places i saw today was skirting boards had been painted.

But we shall see where we are in a few weeks time as at the moment it all seems to be ‘reaching’.
Click to expand...

I hope too much emphasis is not placed on this aspect.

To me the paint on the sledgehammer and bra and the painters tape, taken together seem strong
 
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