CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[oviedo]

Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if there wasn't a folding, fabric, one...

We have a flat disc that pops out we fill with water - I am so sad for this family - how horrible it must be and did they know at the end I wonder ? I’ve become much more careful of the summer heat because of this and the runner who succumbed -ETA: Philip Kreycik

JMO

 

[Bekind89]

I guess they hadn't learned there are some conditions that are not for hiking in.

Pro Tip: if you're a newbie hiker, your best bet is to tag along with "old timers". Yep, the old folks who have been hiking for several decades. This is how you find out what not to do and/or how to react in situations you haven't experienced. Humility will be an asset in this learning process.
The best way to soak up this kind of "experience", is to go out with your local mountaineering club. Be sure it's well-stocked with old timers. There are also other groups like the Sierra Club, AMC, GMC, etc.
It's not possible to get this kind of experience IMO just by hiking a few times and gradually increasing distance. You won't know what you don't know.

Do you think too much dependence on electronic devices instead of paper maps is causing some problems now? How did JG adequately map that trail and STILL decide use that route and bring the baby and dog? We will never know but this is so shocking.

 

[Snoopster]

I'm more upset than I thought I would be, even though the outcome is what I expected.
My deepest condolences to all who loved and cared about this family.

We must treat nature with respect. I'm sure there are times where I should have done better in this respect so I don't hold judgement against this couple.

 

[Bekind89]

I always carry a case of water in my car trunk in case my car breaks down and I'm stranded. Never happened but better safe than sorry. Don't have much experience with extreme cold but heat scares me.

I do now. This has really affected me for some reason, as it has so many of you. We have followed this closely and spent time trying to make sense of this tragedy. We all knew we would never get the one answer we wanted and that is why? What were they thinking? It has taught me to be cautious and to encourage and warn others about what I have learned here. I do think many of us underestimate the danger of extreme heat. I do hope some good can come from this tragedy. But again, I was stunned at what we learned today. Jmo

 

[Snoopster]

I do now. This has really affected me for some reason, as it has so many of you. We have followed this closely and spent time trying to make sense of this tragedy. We all knew we would never get the one answer we wanted and that is why? What were they thinking? It has taught me to be cautious and to encourage and warn others about what I have learned here. I do think many of us underestimate the danger of extreme heat. I do hope some good can come from this tragedy. But again, I was stunned at what we learned today. Jmo

Well said. I've still got tears in my eyes even though it was the outcome I expected.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

RIP to this beautiful family.

This whole situation has reminded me of my childhood, in a climate similar to this in rural California, when, 50 years ago, my mother always insisted that we take several gallons of water with us when we drove into town. We weren’t planning to do any hiking, but what if the car broke down, she said.

I live in an extremely rural and remote area where weather can be unpleasantly hot in summer and extreme in winter. I currently live in town itself (pop 500) but for a while I lived about 15 miles outside of town and learned to always carry sturdy shoes in the car, along with socks, especially in summer when I might be wearing flimsy sandals. Also carried a hat and some other protective clothes, a blanket and a sleeping bag. You just never know when you'll have to walk a few miles for help or even spend the night in the car. I thought at the time that that degree of planning was a bit extreme but now it just seems like basic precautions.

(Yes I also carry water in the car but I have to remember to remove it about this time of year or it will burst the first time we have a hard freeze.)

 

[Bekind89]

Well said. I've still got tears in my eyes even though it was the outcome I expected.

Same. It is unimaginable to think of their suffering. Brutal.

 

[ItalyReader]

Thank you for saying it. The poor baby and the poor dog are the real victims in this tragedy. They had no say. Yes, I am angry too.

in·vin·ci·bil·i·ty
/inˌvinsəˈbilədē/

noun

1. the quality of being too powerful to be defeated or overcome.
   "he gave off an aura of invincibility"

Yes, we are angry because we are heartbroken for the weakest most vulnerable victims, the victims who had zero choice, the baby and the dog.

 

[Bekind89]

Am I the only one who heard him say that the adults succumbed first, then the baby, then the dog, in that order? I could not hear him at times. If so, that is not only more horrific, but also I thought the baby and dog would be the first affected?

 

[Figuring]

Just here again after a while to share my condolences. Sheriff’s office ruled it likely heatstroke. It’s really such a sad event for a beautiful little family. I hope they Rest In Peace.

 

[blue22]

Am I the only one who heard him say that the adults succumbed first, then the baby, then the dog, in that order? I could not hear him at times. If so, that is not only more horrific, but also I thought the baby and dog would be the first affected?

I thought so as well. I don't know how accurate my ears are. My first thought to that is if the baby was nursing they would have more fluids than the parents. The dog also could drink from water in the area.

 

[neesaki]

Am I the only one who heard him say that the adults succumbed first, then the baby, then the dog, in that order? I could not hear him at times. If so, that is not only more horrific, but also I thought the baby and dog would be the first affected?

No, he said they don’t know the times of deaths for any of them.

 

[rahod1]

Am I the only one who heard him say that the adults succumbed first, then the baby, then the dog, in that order? I could not hear him at times. If so, that is not only more horrific, but also I thought the baby and dog would be the first affected?

BBM
They have no way of determining the sequence of death in this case. MOO

 

[starviego]

How far apart were the bodies of JG and EC as found?

 

[rahod1]

Question:
Infant had a small bottle with some formula still in bottle. Bladder of water was in back back and is accessed by sucking a tube. How did they plan on giving baby water? Supposedly, there was just the one baby bottle with some formula. Seems like any attempt to provide water for infant would be cumbersome. I won't even speculate about a dog without a bowl. MOO

 

[bpeterson912]

I respect the range of emotions and reactions that people are experiencing. There's no "right" way to react to something like this, and I understand why some of you feel angry. What follows is not an indirect criticism of anyone who has contributed to this discussion. I just want to share my perspective.

I've spent a lot of time exercising outdoors in extreme conditions. Sometimes I was prepared; sometimes I was not. I was never seriously injured, but there were probably dozens of situations where I was just a mistake or two away (or a few degrees of temperature change away) from finding myself in grave danger. I suspect that's true of many of us who have spent a lot of time exercising outdoors in remote areas. All it would take is one thing to go wrong to turn a tough hike/run into a national news story where people on the internet were questioning my intelligence, character, and sanity.

I know that many of you don't spend a lot of time exercising in the wilderness, but you probably do other risky things without even realizing it. I suspect that many of us--perhaps all of us--do things that we treat as routine but that actually carry a not insubstantial risk of serious injury or death. We all have our blind spots.

Does this mean that we shouldn't question the decisions that Jonathan and Ellen made on that fateful Sunday? Of course not. But I do think we should keep our collective judgment in check. Something like this could happen to any of us.

 

[NSamuelle]

I respect the range of emotions and reactions that people are experiencing. There's no "right" way to react to something like this, and I understand why some of you feel angry. What follows is not an indirect criticism of anyone who has contributed to this discussion. I just want to share my perspective.

I've spent a lot of time exercising outdoors in extreme conditions. Sometimes I was prepared; sometimes I was not. I was never seriously injured, but there were probably dozens of situations where I was just a mistake or two away (or a few degrees of temperature change away) from finding myself in grave danger. I suspect that's true of many of us who have spent a lot of time exercising outdoors in remote areas. All it would take is one thing to go wrong to turn a tough hike/run into a national news story where people on the internet were questioning my intelligence, character, and sanity.

I know that many of you don't spend a lot of time exercising in the wilderness, but you probably do other risky things without even realizing it. I suspect that many of us--perhaps all of us--do things that we treat as routine but that actually carry a not insubstantial risk of serious injury or death. We all have our blind spots.

Does this mean that we shouldn't question the decisions that Jonathan and Ellen made on that fateful Sunday? Of course not. But I do think we should keep our collective judgment in check. Something like this could happen to any of us.

I think most of us can comprehend taking risks, even outrageous ones, and putting ourselves in danger. What I am struggling with, and I suspect many are, are the decisions that put two dependents in danger.

Perhaps some things could not be avoided, like a wrong turn, but the lack of a water bowl for the dog and a supplementary water source for the baby are puzzling and upsetting. That they hiked 4 miles in conditions that would have become increasingly uncomfortable, and pressed on for what would have been another 4.5 miles - rather than turning around at the halfway point - is also upsetting.

 

[Karuna]

Question:
Infant had a small bottle with some formula still in bottle. Bladder of water was in back back and is accessed by sucking a tube. How did they plan on giving baby water? Supposedly, there was just the one baby bottle with some formula. Seems like any attempt to provide water for infant would be cumbersome.

I was thinking about this too. A one year old can use a straw and a bottle with formula could be refilled, but it certainly seems cumbersome and not sufficient for staying hydrated (with an accessible, steady flow of liquids). But another concern - in my experience (as a parent) kids aren't big water drinkers. It would be hard to imagine, even having enough water, how you would get a baby to hydrate enough. Maybe juice. But, sadly it seems even with enough water (and consumption of enough water) it wouldn't have been enough to save them.

 

[RickshawFan]

Do you think too much dependence on electronic devices instead of paper maps is causing some problems now? How did JG adequately map that trail and STILL decide use that route and bring the baby and dog? We will never know but this is so shocking.

IMO it is causing problems that people are not using paper maps. Maps on a cell phone aren't detailed enough, they're too tiny, and can't give enough context to assess a trail. They would have given no idea about the SLT.
It's possible that the couple didn't know how to project mapping information onto reality. Like, "What does a slope with this kind of contouring look like?" "What does it take to go up something like that?"
Bottom line: a paper/Tyvek map and compass are one of the "Ten Essentials". You take them hiking. Period. You take them in addition to GPS. Without them, you aren't just putting yourself at risk, you're endangering SAR as well. In some instances, too, there's no way SAR can attempt a rescue because of weather.
This hike was EXACTLY the reason you take a physical map and compass.
You also have to have lessons in how to use them....

*****
It astonishes me that nothing was mentioned about EC carrying a daypack? Ummm... you carry a daypack when you're hiking. No matter someone you're with has stuff. Your pack has your essentials in it. You pack it according to your plan. You carry your water. If you can't carry a daypack, you shouldn't be hiking IMO. I've been in this predicament myself for years. I haven't been able to hike. But now, aha!, I've found a daypack that doesn't bother my sciatica, so I'm out hiking again. Yippee! No daypack, no hiking. My life and my doggie's are in my hands, not someone else's.

 

[Karuna]

I respect the range of emotions and reactions that people are experiencing. There's no "right" way to react to something like this, and I understand why some of you feel angry. What follows is not an indirect criticism of anyone who has contributed to this discussion. I just want to share my perspective.

I suspect that many of us--perhaps all of us--do things that we treat as routine but that actually carry a not insubstantial risk of serious injury or death. We all have our blind spots.

Does this mean that we shouldn't question the decisions that Jonathan and Ellen made on that fateful Sunday? Of course not. But I do think we should keep our collective judgment in check. Something like this could happen to any of us.

RSBM Thank you @bpeterson912 for this reminder (especially that there is no "right" way to feel or react here). I tend to agree with the point about humanity and fallibility. And, yet, I also resonate with @NSamuelle below

I think most of us can comprehend taking risks, even outrageous ones, and putting ourselves in danger. What I am struggling with, and I suspect many are, are the decisions that put two dependents in danger.

Perhaps some things could not be avoided, like a wrong turn, but the lack of a water bowl for the dog and a supplementary water source for the baby are puzzling and upsetting. That they hiked 4 miles in conditions that would have become increasingly uncomfortable, and pressed on for what would have been another 4.5 miles - rather than turning around at the halfway point - is also upsetting.

Yes, this. I think what it hard to metabolize is the vulnerability factor of the dependents combined with numerous errors that were not slight (such as a few degrees of heat) as @RickshawFan pointed out, but such serious, basic things.