CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

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Kaley Smith said:
So poisoning has been ruled out? If you're not used to heat you're even less likely to go out in it, don't you think? They must have started out in the morning, as no one in their right minds would willingly go out on a long hike in the afternoon with a baby in those extreme temperatures. By all reports, the baby had doting parents. I read the father was 45 and the mother was 31, so maybe she was better able to withstand the heat and lived longer?
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I don’t think poisoning has been ruled out. Waiting on toxicology now.
 
Deaths of husband, wife and baby are being treated as a homicide | Daily Mail Online



    • Police are now investigating the deaths as a homicide after initially treating the scene as a hazmat scene
    • 'There's no obvious indicators of how it occurred.


Graphic question warning :



If it was cyanide poisoning, wouldn't the skin be discolored ?

I'm not on the fence, but am on the side of accident so far.

If it was heatstroke would the dog be able to escape to a cooler spot under some trees/brush ?
Unless he was leashed.
For some reason I'm thinking animals can be pretty smart in a dangerous situation and get the heck out of there ?


This occurred to me-- but is waaaay out there.
Not impossible but improbable : If it was a matter of silencing the husband due to something he was about to leak from his job-- only he would be dead, imo.
Just had to put that out there as I was thinking well it might have been an attempt to shut him up ?

But back again to heat-related deaths or other unforeseen accident ; this still is my first guess.
MOO.
 
LietKynes said:
Deaths of husband, wife and baby are being treated as a homicide | Daily Mail Online



    • Police are now investigating the deaths as a homicide after initially treating the scene as a hazmat scene
    • 'There's no obvious indicators of how it occurred.


Graphic question warning :



If it was cyanide poisoning, wouldn't the skin be discolored ?

I'm not on the fence, but am on the side of accident so far.

If it was heatstroke would the dog be able to escape to a cooler spot under some trees/brush ?
Unless he was leashed.
For some reason I'm thinking animals can be pretty smart in a dangerous situation and get the heck out of there ?


This occurred to me-- but is waaaay out there.
Not impossible but improbable : If it was a matter of silencing the husband due to something he was about to leak from his job-- only he would be dead, imo.
Just had to put that out there as I was thinking well it might have been an attempt to shut him up ?

But back again to heat-related deaths or other unforeseen accident ; this still is my first guess.
MOO.
Click to expand...

from the link -no cell service where the bodies were found - this really bothers me
 
LietKynes said:
Deaths of husband, wife and baby are being treated as a homicide | Daily Mail Online



    • Police are now investigating the deaths as a homicide after initially treating the scene as a hazmat scene
    • 'There's no obvious indicators of how it occurred.


Graphic question warning :



If it was cyanide poisoning, wouldn't the skin be discolored ?

I'm not on the fence, but am on the side of accident so far.

If it was heatstroke would the dog be able to escape to a cooler spot under some trees/brush ?
Unless he was leashed.
For some reason I'm thinking animals can be pretty smart in a dangerous situation and get the heck out of there ?


This occurred to me-- but is waaaay out there.
Not impossible but improbable : If it was a matter of silencing the husband due to something he was about to leak from his job-- only he would be dead, imo.
Just had to put that out there as I was thinking well it might have been an attempt to shut him up ?

But back again to heat-related deaths or other unforeseen accident ; this still is my first guess.
MOO.
Click to expand...
Agree. I’m leaning toward heat related deaths, but anything is still possible. There’s so much we don’t know.
 
LietKynes said:
Deaths of husband, wife and baby are being treated as a homicide | Daily Mail Online



    • Police are now investigating the deaths as a homicide after initially treating the scene as a hazmat scene
    • 'There's no obvious indicators of how it occurred.


Graphic question warning :



If it was cyanide poisoning, wouldn't the skin be discolored ?

I'm not on the fence, but am on the side of accident so far.

If it was heatstroke would the dog be able to escape to a cooler spot under some trees/brush ?
Unless he was leashed.
For some reason I'm thinking animals can be pretty smart in a dangerous situation and get the heck out of there ?


This occurred to me-- but is waaaay out there.
Not impossible but improbable : If it was a matter of silencing the husband due to something he was about to leak from his job-- only he would be dead, imo.
Just had to put that out there as I was thinking well it might have been an attempt to shut him up ?

But back again to heat-related deaths or other unforeseen accident ; this still is my first guess.
MOO.
Click to expand...


Wow! Very interesting. I just came here to post this, as I had popped over to the DM to read, and saw it first thing. I don't think I saw this coming. :eek:

I think something like a cyanide poisoning would be a violent death, and their bodies would show obvious signs of that? I don't know what I think anymore! o_O

ETA: Y'all just excuse me. I see I am 5 pages behind in this thread. I was shocked to see the story about homicide on the front page of DM, but realized once I got here that I haven't checked back on this thread since last night. It's one of those Saturday's. :D
 
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Andreee said:
Just heard about this latest update, as I read your post re. no clues during initial autopsy, kind of shocking. I wonder if this was indeed due to the algae, if there should be an indication of that from this initial autopsy or from clues at the scene? If it is due to gases, same question. This makes it even more pertinent to hear the toxicology report, hopefully it will be pushed asap! It sounds like the public with be privy to those results too, especially due to the location it happened at. I sure as heck would not want to go on that hike or any near it till this is solved. Worst case scenario? That there never would be an answer to this, which seems ludicrous in this modern day and age. The poor family, sorry they have to go through this not knowing, on top of losing their lovely family.
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You'd think if it were algae, they'd already have determined that, since they'd know the symptoms, what to look for, etc.

I'm sticking with lightning. I was on a popular trail once in Oregon (Erma Bell lakes). There was no sign of rain, but the air was full of electricity. It was, like, buzzing. It made me feel very strange. I got out of there as fast as I could. No sooner had I pulled away in my car, a large mountain lion leapt across the road in front of me, so I guess there was more than one reason to bail.
 
I've thought heatstroke all along. Not to sound know-it-all, the Kreycik case has made me hyper-aware of the dangers, particularly in California's areas of microclimates. If they started early, if anything delayed them, or even if they just had no idea how hot it would get-- yes, heatstroke could strike them all "equally." It would affect their ability to get back to the car and their judgement, especially if they began walking faster to get back to the car. Maybe the baby suffered first? The dog had nowhere to go, and as Kreycik proved, shade will not help once you are in distress. Drinking water will not help. Maybe even if they'd reached the car, they still may have succumbed. In distress, they had no remedy.

An earlier poster asked about when they determined Kreycik died of heatstroke. They used the data on his watch which gave detailed information on his gait. That was one clue. Then, finding him under a tree off a side trail that was not on his main route, maybe indicating confusion. However, from what I understand, heatstroke cannot be determined by autopsy. There is no way to rule conclusively that a person dies from heatstroke. It is only from process of elimination and circumstantial evidence.

I highly recommend the Kreycik thread on WS, even if you just read the last pages of it.

I am afraid as climate change heats the planet and extreme heat becomes the norm, people will have to learn new ways of hiking and being outdoors in the summer.
 
Shamrock1 said:
I understand that heatstroke & lightning do not necessarily leave visible marks - but what are the chances of 4 creatures all suffering that same fatal event and all 4 creatures not having any obvious clues on their bodies? Vomit/diarrhea, burns, etc.
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If they were a young family, they likely would have been in a cluster. Lightning current running underground might well have zapped them all at the same time. A lightning strike often doesn't leave a sign on a body.
 
happyday said:
Ground current would make a lot of sense. Surely there would be records of lightning strikes in the area that day?
Click to expand...
The problem is, it's impossible to keep track of all the lightning strikes. Most lightning strikes out in the wilderness don't create a problem. There can be thousands. IIRC they aren't always visible, either. Historically, what has mattered about lightning is forest fires: there were watch towers, which were manned with folks scouring the terrain for start up forest fires. Some of these still exist, some you can rent for overnights.
 
obripe said:
This article states that the CA DOJ is assisting in the investigation.
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253560324.html
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Knox said:
Very strange circumstances. Is the DOJ involved because it's on fed land?

Autopsies will be performed tomorrow. Tox screens would be six weeks out. We'll likely be waiting awhile for answers, unless they find something at the camp site.

The real mystery is the dog being found dead too.
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No wounds or obvious injury to the deceased, and the dog dead too; seems obvious it was exposure to some type of gas, MHO.
 
oviedo said:
Isn't heatstroke a factor of weight ? for all 4 to perish at the same time? This is one of the more odd ones I have come across...
IMO
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Based on the Outside Online article I linked above, it can be due to 2 reasons: 1) health condition (e.g. weight, age, etc.; or 2) exertion in the heat. Many runners get heatstroke every year. Many of these people are in excellent condition.

As for all 4 perishing around the same time....only the 2 adults matter. The infant could have died first and they over-exerted themselves trying to rush back to the vehicle. Or, one of the adults could have succumbed and the other suffered while trying to help them. They could have put the child down on the ground in a weakened state. The dog may have stayed out of loyalty and protectiveness.
 
Thechaoz said:
I'd wager everything I had on suicide or murder suicide and it's not even close
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Occam’s razor leads me to murder-suicide, possibly with both adults as willing participants, and poison. If it was not intentional, they showed very bad judgment hiking with a 1-year old in a backpack on a 100+ degree day, and I’m not trying to victim-shame but obviously that was not a good strategy and people should avoid unnecessary risks when traveling with infants. This was not a recreational trail; they couldn’t even remove the bodies except via helicopter.

I doubt heatstroke unless they were consciously attempting to preserve water, since they still had water left and any mother would have given it to the baby to save her of heat was an issue. I also doubt exposure to algae; why drink bad water when they had fresh water left.

CO poisoning in a open space is so unlikely and deputies slept near the bodies that night (what a weird, awful experience that must have been). There would be findings on autopsy. Some toxicology takes weeks, testing for CO in blood takes hours.

So that leads me to some dark speculation. If I’ve located the correct LinkedIn profile, Ellen had a background in pharmacy, which makes me wonder about poisoning. They were both very smart individuals who made an inexplicably poor decision - it makes more sense to me that it was intentional than thinking that two intelligent people had such innocent but terrible judgment.
 
CptCari said:
But wouldn't an autopsy reveal a lightning strike?
Click to expand...
I was thinking a lightning strike big enough to kill all of them at once would leave obvious burn marks, or other obvious signs even without the autopsy. Reports were that there were no physical signs of trauma. I doubt lightning strike, but we will see what autopsy says.
 
Andreee said:
I wonder how many animals frequent that particular area.
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Snipped for focus
Hundreds or thousands, I would guess, including birds. There can be animals in the most inhospitable-looking areas. If you ever have a chance, sleep/nap under a tarp, not a tent. This puts you at eyeball level with a gazillion creatures you never knew existed, and they have their own little lives.
Plus vegetation would be affected by toxic gasses.
 
Was there a heat advisory/heat index warning that day?
Weather alerts for heat/high humidity days are common for us.
I learned to check weather conditions before pursuing outdoor activities such as hiking, fishing, etc.
.....experienced hikers plus a baby on an August day forecasted to have 100+ heat plus humidity?
JMO
 
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