Identified! CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson

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Perp right-handed, used common pen knife.
Published on Nov 18, 2016

On November 16, 1969, the body of a young woman was found along Mulholland Drive in Los Angeles. She had been stabbed 157 times. The body was never claimed. The name of the murdered woman would remain unknown for the next 46 years -- her case was simply known as “Jane Doe #59.” Nearly half a century later, three childhood friends from Montreal identify her as their long lost friend – Reet Jurvetson. Now the Los Angeles and Montreal police are trying to piece together the final weeks of Jurvetson’s life and the fifth estate helps uncover new clues that might help unlock a decades-old mystery.

Send tips on the case to : janedoe59@cbc.ca
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[video=youtube;CTyQhn1MjX8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTyQhn1MjX8[/video]
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/reet-jurvetson-other-cases-1.3857691
Could Canadian's brutal 1969 stabbing death be connected to another L.A. cold case?
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Within a few kilometres of where a Canadian woman's body was found dumped in Los Angeles in 1969, at least two other bodies were discovered and a disappearance took place within a year and a half.
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Habe, the daughter of actress Eloise Hardt and writer Hans Habe, was abducted from her driveway on Dec. 30, 1968, and found stabbed to death two days later. Her body was dumped off Mulholland Drive about 30 metres west of Bowmont Drive, police records show.

That was a short distance from where the body of Jurvetson — who was stabbed 157 times — was found on Nov. 16, 1969. No one has been charged in either death.
The location intrigues Cliff Shepard, a retired detective with the Los Angeles Police Department.
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Marina Habe was found stabbed to death on Jan. 1, 1969.
 

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Taking a bit of a wild guess here, but this little known disappearance of a young woman, Alison Thomas - an American who, after living in Paris was visiting her brother in Toronto with plans to move to Montreal ,reminded me of Reet.J.
Wondering if she knew Jean/Jacques too, or if there might be any connection at all?
imo, speculation.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?272422-Canada-Alison-Mary-Thomas-26-Toronto-Ont-27-Sept-1978&p=12979012#post12979012
Alison Mary Thomas, 26, Toronto, Ont, 27 Sept 1978

Posted by CrimeSolver in the Toronto Crimes thread, additional information about Alison Thomas.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?63274-Canada-Toronto-Crimes-Discussion&p=2920405#post2920405

26-year-old American Alison Thomas disappeared after leaving a dinner party on Hillsdale Ave. in the Yonge St. and Eglinton Ave. vicinity on September 29th, 1978. The young woman, who had spent the previous 9 years in Paris and was staying in Toronto with her brother before moving to Montreal to start a new job, had attended the dinner party with three male friends. They later stated Alison left around midnight with the intention of catching a cab on Yonge St. She was never seen again.
There is some question as to whether Thomas met foul play or disappeared voluntarily. Her boyfriend of two weeks said she didn’t know where she fit in, and might have taken off to “find herself”
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.






 
I still think Rodney Alcaca is a good lead in this case here are some of the reasons why I think so:
1. He would had been 26 to 28 years old and he did lived in LA during this time
2.In 1968 he did attack a little girl and stab her I believe and when a cop came to his house he fled and the officer found her in her own pool of blood. Reet was stabbed a bunch of times as meaning that Rodney first victims in his serial killer career he like stabbing then at some point switch to strangling.
3.The sketch that they have for Reet John, I remember looking at it I was wondering who does that remind me of. It look too similar then on reddit someone mention Rodney and boom I realize yes it does look like Rodney. It been 2015 since they came out with that sketch and isn't it weird that only Rodney looks like the guy from the sketch? no Canadian match up to that sketch. No one has reported someone that could match the sketch from a Montreal high school. Rodney could had possible went up to Montreal and met Reet and lure her back to LA. I am thinking of this because it seems like this John person is not even a person since no one but a known serial killer looks like him.
4. Or Reet bump into Rodney after her and John didn't work and she took a liking to Rodney because he looks a lot like him and she got murdered because of it.
5. Like someone said he did use the name John/Jean and I remember watching a video about him on the stand during his trial him doing different personalities and voices on stand to defend himself maybe he has half *advertiser censored* french accent up his sleeve?
6. I don't think Rodney was taking pictures of all his victims I mean the very first one that world start to find out about him was that 8 year old Tori? I think that was her name I don't think the police never found a picture of her in his collection. I think he start taking pictures of his victims, and people around him after 1971 because they didn't know he committed two murders in New York City. The only way they found out he committed those two murders was because of semen samples that by law he has to give. Not because they found pictures of those two women in his photo collection. So it still possible that Reet is a victim and there no photos of her in his collection.
7. The only thing that I can't figure out was why did Rodney not rape Reet then if he was the murderer and then I remember that story of that 15 year old that ran off with him to a cabin in the woods. They were doing sexual activities (I believe it was oral sex) she was consenting to that and she went to the police claiming when he try to strangle her after multiple times of having sex with him. Since no one knows when exactly Reet disappear that could mean she was spending days with Rodney having willing sex with him. He waited a few days then kill her and dump her body. I google how long can semen live in a woman body and apparently only 5 days semen can live. So Rodney semen must had die off before he kill her or they wearing condoms or just been having oral sex. So he can't be linked to this murder.

Oh I just want to add this been bothering me the police that on Reet case only asking public help in finding "John" photo in Montreal high schools. I just want to add Ottawa area is also an English/French city so I think someone should mention to the police officers on this case to maybe also reach out to Ottawa residents about high school yearbooks for John.
 
tatan said:
I still think Rodney Alcaca is a good lead in this case here are some of the reasons why I think so:
1. He would had been 26 to 28 years old and he did lived in LA during this time
2.In 1968 he did attack a little girl and stab her I believe and when a cop came to his house he fled and the officer found her in her own pool of blood. Reet was stabbed a bunch of times as meaning that Rodney first victims in his serial killer career he like stabbing then at some point switch to strangling.
3.The sketch that they have for Reet John, I remember looking at it I was wondering who does that remind me of. It look too similar then on reddit someone mention Rodney and boom I realize yes it does look like Rodney. It been 2015 since they came out with that sketch and isn't it weird that only Rodney looks like the guy from the sketch? no Canadian match up to that sketch. No one has reported someone that could match the sketch from a Montreal high school. Rodney could had possible went up to Montreal and met Reet and lure her back to LA. I am thinking of this because it seems like this John person is not even a person since no one but a known serial killer looks like him.
4. Or Reet bump into Rodney after her and John didn't work and she took a liking to Rodney because he looks a lot like him and she got murdered because of it.
5. Like someone said he did use the name John/Jean and I remember watching a video about him on the stand during his trial him doing different personalities and voices on stand to defend himself maybe he has half *advertiser censored* french accent up his sleeve?
6. I don't think Rodney was taking pictures of all his victims I mean the very first one that world start to find out about him was that 8 year old Tori? I think that was her name I don't think the police never found a picture of her in his collection. I think he start taking pictures of his victims, and people around him after 1971 because they didn't know he committed two murders in New York City. The only way they found out he committed those two murders was because of semen samples that by law he has to give. Not because they found pictures of those two women in his photo collection. So it still possible that Reet is a victim and there no photos of her in his collection.
7. The only thing that I can't figure out was why did Rodney not rape Reet then if he was the murderer and then I remember that story of that 15 year old that ran off with him to a cabin in the woods. They were doing sexual activities (I believe it was oral sex) she was consenting to that and she went to the police claiming when he try to strangle her after multiple times of having sex with him. Since no one knows when exactly Reet disappear that could mean she was spending days with Rodney having willing sex with him. He waited a few days then kill her and dump her body. I google how long can semen live in a woman body and apparently only 5 days semen can live. So Rodney semen must had die off before he kill her or they wearing condoms or just been having oral sex. So he can't be linked to this murder.

Oh I just want to add this been bothering me the police that on Reet case only asking public help in finding "John" photo in Montreal high schools. I just want to add Ottawa area is also an English/French city so I think someone should mention to the police officers on this case to maybe also reach out to Ottawa residents about high school yearbooks for John.
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I do wonder if they checked her for a semen sample to link her to someone. Not sure if they did that back then. The rape kit sample could be sitting in a warehouse somewhere like thousands of others.

I don't follow serial killers, so don't know specifics of Alcala. I do think he should be a suspect due to living there at the time and his looks. He would have been about 26 at the time.

Rodney Alcala Wiki

Early criminal history
Alcala committed his first known crime in 1968: A motorist in Los Angeles called police after watching him lure an eight-year-old girl named Tali Shapiro[20] into his Hollywood apartment. The girl was found alive, raped and beaten with a steel bar, but Alcala had fled.[21] To evade the resulting arrest warrant he left the state and enrolled in the NYU film school, using the name "John Berger". In 1971, he obtained a counseling job at a New Hampshire arts camp for children using a slightly different alias, "John Burger".[9] In June 1971, Cornelia Michel Crilley, a 23-year-old Trans World Airlines flight attendant, was found raped and strangled in her Manhattan apartment. Her murder went unsolved until it was connected to Alcala in 2011
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dotr said:
Taking a bit of a wild guess here, but this little known disappearance of a young woman, Alison Thomas - an American who, after living in Paris was visiting her brother in Toronto with plans to move to Montreal ,reminded me of Reet.J.
Wondering if she knew Jean/Jacques too, or if there might be any connection at all?
imo, speculation.


Alison Mary Thomas, 26, Toronto, Ont, 27 Sept 1978

Posted by CrimeSolver in the Toronto Crimes thread, additional information about Alison Thomas.


26-year-old American Alison Thomas disappeared after leaving a dinner party on Hillsdale Ave. in the Yonge St. and Eglinton Ave. vicinity on September 29th, 1978. The young woman, who had spent the previous 9 years in Paris and was staying in Toronto with her brother before moving to Montreal to start a new job, had attended the dinner party with three male friends. They later stated Alison left around midnight with the intention of catching a cab on Yonge St. She was never seen again.
There is some question as to whether Thomas met foul play or disappeared voluntarily. Her boyfriend of two weeks said she didn’t know where she fit in, and might have taken off to “find herself”.
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I do wonder how many other cases are tied to her; or if she was killed by her BF who ended up stabbing her to make it look like the Manson family did it
 
Bumping this case up. This year will mark the 49 year anniversary of her death. Although she has been identified finally, her murder is still unsolved. One wonders how many other murders are related to her death.
 
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To me he looks Metis in the sketches. That would explain that he spoke basically no English rare in Montreal at that time. He would have to be from further up north say Lac St. Jean OR as I am suggesting from a reserve. An excellent hiding place. Robert mentions his restlessness. It would explain why he is hard to catch. It is interesting he has no last name is that correct?
 
1. See 22:55 of the W5 doc on the case there is a photo of her freeze it she looks very pregnant...though it could just be some illusion from the camera photographing a photo book covered in plastic. What do you think? And please I am not dissing her with this remark.

2. The Wiki article on the case is strange and detailed. It mentions her meeting Jean in Toronto. He was a postal worker. He was a medical student. What? This is different than anything else I have read. I am going to have a look at Yearbooks but there are only so many medical students in Toronto at that time in any decade. If we use Jean or thrown out that name we should be able to find him. But of course Wiki articles are anonymous so probably a red herring....still worth looking up though...
 
Chorley8 said:
1. See 22:55 of the W5 doc on the case there is a photo of her freeze it she looks very pregnant...though it could just be some illusion from the camera photographing a photo book covered in plastic. What do you think? And please I am not dissing her with this remark.

2. The Wiki article on the case is strange and detailed. It mentions her meeting Jean in Toronto. He was a postal worker. He was a medical student. What? This is different than anything else I have read. I am going to have a look at Yearbooks but there are only so many medical students in Toronto at that time in any decade. If we use Jean or thrown out that name we should be able to find him. But of course Wiki articles are anonymous so probably a red herring....still worth looking up though...
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Well the front of the dress does look pretty puffy, but doubting that it is a pregnancy. re @ 22:55 imo.
As i understand it, Reet was the one who worked at a post office in Toronto.
This article says she met Jean or John in a coffee shop in Toronto, although i had thought it was a Hungarian coffee shop in Montreal. Will check.
Murder Victim Reet Jurvetson's Family Shares Their Sorrow After She's Identified by Police as Jane Doe #59 Was She Murdered by Manson?
"Reet developed a taste for adventure and freedom as a teen. After graduating high school, she moved to Toronto to live with her grandmother, where she found work at the post office and met John, or Jean, at a coffee shop before disappearing to L.A."
 
The dress..
Coolopolis exclusive: Montreal woman identified as Jane Doe 59, possible Manson Gang victim


"She went to Toronto where she stayed with her grandmother while modeling part time and working at the post office.
Eventually she saved enough money to fly to Los Angeles where she stayed with her boyfriend Jean, who she had met at Cafe Prag on Bishop Street.
Jean bore a likeness to rock star Jim Morrison, who Jurvetson greatly admired.
Little else is known about Jean or another friend also named Jean, at whose place the two stayed for two weeks.
Los Angeles Cold Case Squad Detective Luis Rivera has visited Montreal in an attempt to locate people who might be able to identify the two Jeans.
One tip has it that longtime Old Montreal street musician Paul "Gypsy" Robert was acquainted with the two and might be able to provide the last names of Jean and Jean."
 
1. I am emphasizing the wiki article ( I realize it is anon and we must be sceptical) because it would be an ENORMOUS clue if Jean was a medical student. He would have to be in a yearbook. The wiki article DOES say they met in Toronto at the postal job. It sources footnote 2 NBC (though the article does say that exactly) and the South China Morning Post footnote 24 which DOES clearly state they met in Toronto and there is SOME indication they spoke directly to a friend of Reet's - that is a Hong Kong English newspaper with the best reputation for veracity among English papers there but that does not mean it is not wrong I admit. There is also a very well done independent video on the case done by a young womman that mentions Jean being in Toronto and the source is maybe from someone else not sure who.

2. Some articles say Jean barely spoke English the Wiki article states people in Toronto thought he had only a slight accent. One of these is wrong.

3. Is the street musician Paul Roberts just mentioned is the same person as the painter interviewed in the W5 article? Reet's friend Gilda Green has a recent post showing a painting of his.

4. I have read the cafe was called Cafe Image here I am reading Cafe Prag. Rivera did a good thing going to Montreal that's amazing.....the artistic milieu in Montreal at the time would be the place to look for sure. It is incredible nobody knows his last name Rivera must be going crazy over that.....

5. The reason I wondered about the possibility of him being First Nations or Metis is the lack of a last name (often rejected as those names were foisted upon them), possibly his appearance, his lack of English if that report is correct, and his furtiveness/restlessness and maybe the strange observation by Robert that his face was coming out of the shadows and of course the fact that he was some kind of artist. Lots of first nations people are superb artists. What kind of art did the rest of them do? There is a tiny second in the W5 where the retired det. meets with the sister she flips through a photo book of Reet you can hear her begin to say "Modern Art" about a painting in the photo book which appears to be an abstract.

6. One friend or family member says Reet took Methadone. I have no experience but isn't that a strange drug to start on? Sorry for the lack of links I will add them when I fix my computer or get to a computer cafe hopefully this weekend.

7. Oddly after looking at Gilda Green's facebook for the first time last night it now seems to have disappeared.....probably just a bad search by me or a glitch.

8. Are the street musician Robert and the artist Robert two different people or the same person?

9. Why would nobody have seen this painter Robert or Roberts for 10 years as W5 says if he is in Montreal and Gilda has him on her facebook?

10. All they need in this case is a new theory but are the friends and this artist being 100% truthful?

11. Reet's postcard is in Estonian I believe.

12. Anyone know her mother's maiden name or the maiden name of the grandmother in Toronto....i.e. Reet's address in Toronto?

13. This Jean may be many even likely be a red herring but I agree with their decision to look for him. Early on this thread there is an article listing a large number of homicides in LA at the time of young females not just Habe. As for the Mansons.....well that would be up to the LAPD I am just interested in this Jean angle.
 
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killer Chaser said:
Some more crazy Manson related people. THE ORKUSTRA :: BOBBY BEAUSOLEIL [video=youtube;3kHNVGBGHRg]
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Apart from the stupid skull images I don't think his art is totally without merit and I agree with some elements of his philosophy concerning prisons. I want Reet's killer caught and to face some form of justice I don't need him to be serial raped or executed. People kill people with cars almost everday in my city and they receive little punishment. they are murdered imo
 
add sorry for the multiple posts 1. how unusual is this pattern of so many wounds to the neck? 2. How unusual are non sexual homicides of women who are not partners of their killers? 3. How unusual is this kind of murder with a penknife/jacknife? Why choose that weapon?
 
Chorley8 said:
add sorry for the multiple posts 1. how unusual is this pattern of so many wounds to the neck? 2. How unusual are non sexual homicides of women who are not partners of their killers? 3. How unusual is this kind of murder with a penknife/jacknife? Why choose that weapon?
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If a knife suggests"emotionality, whether rage or paranoia." and a personal connection to the victim, as opposed to a cold/ distant murder by gun, then imagine the close relationship a little pen knife might suggest... imo, speculation.

Knife vs. Gun: What a Weapon Reveals
rbbm.
"The close contact required with stabbings could mean more rage, experts say."
"Anytime somebody commits a murder or assault, either by choking, stabbing or making bodily contact, it always speaks to a level of rage and perhaps a personal connection to the victim that shooting with a gun does not," said Naftali Berrill, a forensic psychologist in New York City.

"When you are stabbing someone, it's close and in your face. The experience is more visceral and more graphic, more provocative. It speaks emotionality, whether rage or paranoia."
 
dotr said:
If a knife suggests"emotionality, whether rage or paranoia." and a personal connection to the victim, as opposed to a cold/ distant murder by gun, then imagine the close relationship a little pen knife might suggest... imo, speculation.

Knife vs. Gun: What a Weapon Reveals
rbbm.
"The close contact required with stabbings could mean more rage, experts say."
"Anytime somebody commits a murder or assault, either by choking, stabbing or making bodily contact, it always speaks to a level of rage and perhaps a personal connection to the victim that shooting with a gun does not," said Naftali Berrill, a forensic psychologist in New York City.

"When you are stabbing someone, it's close and in your face. The experience is more visceral and more graphic, more provocative. It speaks emotionality, whether rage or paranoia."
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Thanks Dotr my only caveat would be that its easier to get a knife than a gun....everyone used to carry that kind of knife even as children we called them jacknives.

There are no Jurvetsons in Canada 411 though obviously at least her sister lives here though is not listed. Interestingly only 8 or so are listed in the US all in California. Is there any chance Reet had a relative in CA? Also Google Manson and Montreal connection it is a frustrating short article mentioning other Montrealers had encounters with Manson though the only article is of someone who let a guy stay with him for Expo 67 in 1967 he then went to CA and Manson was there. Now I just said I am not interested in the Manson angle but am if there is any Montreal connection with the M. family. A friend of mine actually thinks the composite and sketches of Jean looks like Manson she has a very very good eye. I don't see it.... what does anyone think? I am going to check city directories to see if I can find anything on her address in Toronto. I am going to check the medical directories too though the artist and medical student angles seem like different people surely......
 
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