Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

[MsMarple]

Agreed. MOO the other children were already interviewed and I hope they were very helpful.

Sadly I do have personal experience with a sort of similar situation where children were taken out of their home. In my experience in another state, the children were not allowed visits with each other or ANY family members (including the relatives who reported the concerns to CPS) until their forensic interviews were completed. In my situation, the children were older and it was not an ongoing missing persons situation and it took almost a month for those interviews to be completed. (Which was very frustrating and seemed punitive to the children. But certainly showed a dedication to preventing witness tampering!) Obviously in an ongoing missing children case and with younger kids, I would expect those interviews happened ASAP.

Interestingly, the older kids in my case didn’t know they had a forensic interview. They thought it was a therapy appointment. Not sure if that’s standard or unusual... JMO

A few years back I took a deep look into forensic interview techniques for a case where a child was sexually assaulted then recanted. At that time anyway there were two types of techniques most often used with kids. I don't know the current trends.

It was fascinating to read about and indeed, like you said, if done properly the child shouldn't feel like they were being interrogated. IMO a lot can be learned from kids, even very young ones.

 

[Inquisitive2018]

BBM - exactly. They are encouraging locals to search because it keeps them focused and *not* destructive.

Amateur opinion and speculation

My opinion as well. I have faith in these cops. Reminds of the malayah bass case. We were so concerned about neighbours going through their house, going live messing with evidence, looks like the cops already had what they needed.

 

[MsBetsy]

And if LE required heavy equipment to potentially uncover something, wouldn’t that mean who ever covered it would also need heavy equipment? I’m sure the neighbors would have heard that as well. Moo

I wonder if they were digging up water pipes or the sewer line, like someone mentioned upthread. Maybe they found evidence of something in the bathtub or sink drains.

 

[rosesfromangels]

A few years back I took a deep look into forensic interview techniques for a case where a child was sexually assaulted then recanted. At that time anyway there were two types of techniques most often used with kids. I don't know the current trends.

It was fascinating to read about and indeed, like you said, if done properly the child shouldn't feel like they were being interrogated. IMO a lot can be learned from kids, even very young ones.

100% agree. Sometimes the difficulty isn't so much in getting them to "tell" against fear of retaliation, it's getting them to reveal things that have become normalized for them, and thus not particularly noteworthy to them. It takes very special skills to interview children.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

My opinion as well. I have faith in these cops. Reminds of the malayah bass case. We were so concerned about neighbours going through their house, going live messing with evidence, looks like the cops already had what they needed.

*Exactly*
Don't underestimate the "small town" Police Chief. That ol' boy knows what he's doing.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Bbybluz]

Unless they are dumber than a box of rocks (aways a possibility), I speculate *if* they are responsible for harming and disposing of remains, it wouldn't be at their home. Based on what little I have heard that sounds credible, I speculate any remains (if there are any) would be in Bakersfield. I posted upthread where I think that would be.

Amateur opinion and speculation

lol I have met a few rocks with a Masters degree compared to a few humans. Never in my thoughts would I thought a wicked step mother could travel across the county with her stepson in a suitcase either. Humans shock me more then I like to admit.

I completely agree with you rosesfromangels! Unless LE brings forth some hard facts I have never thought the boys made the move.

 

[MoeInVA]

In the police press conference video, toward the end, someone suggested the family van was seen “Sunday” driving back from somewhere. The officer suggested it was impounded but I think the reporter clarified that it was seen before it was impounded?

Yes. In the press conference later in the Q&A with the chief, it sounded like neighbors said they had reported they “heard” that a van like the Wests’ had been seen returning from somewhere the Sunday before the kids went missing. I am not local and I could not make out the name of the place of the possible van sighting. Perhaps someone local caught it?

 

[Dawookie]

I was looking at a Bakersfield map earlier and was looking at the terrain from there to California City. There seems to be a lot of open area along the way with a Waste Mgmt. center nearby. I mean I wouldn’t think about them taking remains elsewhere but after Gannon~ nothing surprises me too much more than what she did...

It's pretty much all open area with the exception of a few spots. I drive that route all the time for work and I know it like the back of my hand. Once you get past General Beale road, your pretty much into the Tehachapi mountains. There's plenty of spots to stop and put bodies over the side where they might never be found. And if done at night, there's almost no traffic in the middle of the night.

 

[Knox]

Thanks for sharing your observations, Knox! Did you by any chance notice where the gate is located? I can't find it in any of the pictures.

One thing I did notice is the sliding glass doors in the kitchen overlook the patio where I assume the boys were playing. The kitchen table would be the perfect place to sit and wrap presents while keeping an eye on the boys. I wonder which room the mom was in when the boys disappeared.

I saw the double gate at the rear of the lot, yes. It's been in nearly every news video, so just pick one and you'll catch a view. There is also another gate on the side of the garage (near the trash cans). I mulled over why that gate wasn't used as part of how the boys left the backyard.

If you sat at the kitchen table, I think you could hear them, but not see them on the patio? Aren't there two sliding glass doors? One on the remodeled room and another which leads to the back patio?

10717 Aspen Avenue, California City, CA 93505 | Compass
10717 Aspen Avenue, California City, CA 93505 | Compass

 

[Dawookie]

I wonder if they were digging up water pipes or the sewer line, like someone mentioned upthread. Maybe they found evidence of something in the bathtub or sink drains.

It didn't look like it from footage I've seen. The water and sewer lines usually run from the house to the street so if that were the case, they would have been digging up the front yard.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

It's pretty much all open area with the exception of a few spots. I drive that route all the time for work and I know it like the back of my hand. Once you get past General Beale road, your pretty much into the Tehachapi mountains. There's plenty of spots to stop and put bodies over the side where they might never be found. And if done at night, there's almost no traffic in the middle of the night.

I’m so glad to hear you confirm the open spaces. I had no reference for their residence except for Bakersfield but it appeared to be a much more optimum place to hide a body(sadly, two) than CC.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*Exactly*
Don't underestimate the "small town" Police Chief. That ol' boy knows what he's doing.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Concur. There’s more than one way to skin a cat y’all.

 

[Knox]

This is exactly what you don't want to do at a search.

CALIFORNIA CITY, Calif. (KBAK/KBFX) — "This process is just basically looking for anything. we don't even know if the boys were wearing shoes or socks at that time," H D, from California City, said. "For me I see a mound of sand that maybe looks new, I'm going to kick it over, I'm gonna' dig it up."

More than 100 search for missing Cal City boys in desert near their house

Oh wow, LE didn't hold a pre-search meeting giving direction on how to treat potential evidence? Hoping they did and I missed it.

 

[MsBetsy]

I saw the double gate at the rear of the lot, yes. It's been in nearly every news video, so just pick one and you'll catch a view. There is also another gate on the side of the garage (near the trash cans). I mulled over why that gate wasn't used as part of how the boys left the backyard.

If you sat at the kitchen table, I think you could hear them, but not see them on the patio? Aren't there two sliding glass doors? One on the remodeled room and another which leads to the back patio?

10717 Aspen Avenue, California City, CA 93505 | Compass
10717 Aspen Avenue, California City, CA 93505 | Compass

Thanks. I watched the virtual tour of the house but I couldn't see the double gate. I did see what might be a gate to the left of the garage, though. I also saw what looked like an opening in front of the detached garage, at the beginning of the concrete drive.

Yes, I saw two sets of sliding glass doors. One has a good view of the patio and it looked like there was a view of the patio from the kitchen.

In fact, in just about every room it looked like there were views of either the front or back of the house, except the bathrooms.

 

[Dawookie]

I’m so glad to hear you confirm the open spaces. I had no reference for their residence except for Bakersfield but it appeared to be a much more optimum place to hide a body(sadly, two) than CC.

You're welcome, it's pretty flat from Bakersfield to Gen Beale and then you start heading up into the mountains. CC is pretty wide open east and south of their house. They could take a short drive into the desert and it would be the same thing. The bodies could potentially never be found

 

[MsBetsy]

It didn't look like it from footage I've seen. The water and sewer lines usually run from the house to the street so if that were the case, they would have been digging up the front yard.

Oh, ok. My pipes are on the sides of my house, and the main sewer line is in the back. The pipes that are underground, anyway.

 

[Dawookie]

Oh, ok. My pipes are on the sides of my house, and the main sewer line is in the back. The one's underground, anyway.

That's interesting. Only time I've ever seen that set-up is in a trailer park. I suppose each state is different when it comes to how they they run their lines

 

[Knox]

Thanks. I watched the virtual tour of the house but I couldn't see the double gate. I did see what might be a gate to the left of the garage, though. I also saw what looked like an opening in front of the detached garage, at the beginning of the concrete drive.

Yes, I saw two sets of sliding glass doors. One has a good view of the patio and it looked like there was a view of the patio from the kitchen.

In fact, in just about every room it looked like there were views of either the front or back of the house, except the bathrooms.

You're right, the story was manufactured to create a plausible reason for the boys going missing. It must have sounded good while rehearsing, but as in so many cases like this one, was full of holes. Mom could have wrapped gifts anywhere in the house, while Dad watched the boys. She could have waited until they went to bed, like most of us do. The story just never made any sense, IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Alibis are hard to draft. A person just can't think of everything.

These should be easy questions to answer:

Where did the boys sleep? What time did they awaken? What did the sleep in? Show me. What did they have for breakfast? Show me. Cereal box, milk, egg shells, something. What did they do for lunch? What were planning for dinner? Plus your own actions. What did you eat, wear, do? Show me.

If you don't have ready answers, that's a problem.

If you can't produce a TRACE of prior activity going backwards in time, that's a BIG problem.

Cellphones will tell a story.

I fear it'll be a sad, sad story.

JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Let’s say it’s a given the boys are dead. Accident via neglect, intentional abuse or unintended consequences of some other parental responsibility failure. Logistically, how would the bodies be transported without detection? Possible materials required? How would the materials (like that monster LeTecia used: suitcase) be disposed of? Fire? Etc... Dang! I wish these little boys would be found soon.