Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[AgeofAquaruis]

I really wish the AP would get together with LE that are involved and do a presser. I think that would help Orrin,and Orson a lot. MOO

 

[OverTheRhine]

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the PD and really hoping they're just gathering as much evidence as possible. The more evidence there is, the longer it could take. But the more evidence you have the better possibility of a conviction. No one wants another Casey Anthony debacle. I watched 1 youtube video with someone covering the case and all my suggested videos became these freelance reporters. Honestly, the one who was able to view the video recordings is the only one I've seen that brought anything to the table. They are all a giant witchhunt with people pretending to be doctors in psychology.

I'll be the first one to read into the body language, the patterns, presentation, etc of the AP's. I think they are BS'ng and sold the kids. But these people have gone too far. I will discuss some things here and there, but to constantly deliver punch after punch of speculation being driven as facts is absurd. This mob mentality I'm seeing on youtube doesn't help. And all the people saying the cops aren't doing anything, well it's hard to sit back and wait but the truth is it's an ongoing investigation and you won't get much. It doesn't mean the cops aren't doing anything. I have no doubt this will be solved, there's just too many avenues to the truth. Especially with the other children who are basically flies on the wall.

I believe TW put on a show for cameras when he went "looking". I've seen pictures of the area and you can see cameras on numerous houses from the street. He knew there were cameras. It's also why I believe he parked his van sideways in front of the door. This is such a sad case, but I don't think they killed them. I believe they are opportunistic scam artists who took advantage of the system and saw another opportunity to traffic these children.

 

[Dre]

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the PD and really hoping they're just gathering as much evidence as possible. The more evidence there is, the longer it could take. But the more evidence you have the better possibility of a conviction. No one wants another Casey Anthony debacle. I watched 1 youtube video with someone covering the case and all my suggested videos became these freelance reporters. Honestly, the one who was able to view the video recordings is the only one I've seen that brought anything to the table. They are all a giant witchhunt with people pretending to be doctors in psychology.

I'll be the first one to read into the body language, the patterns, presentation, etc of the AP's. I think they are BS'ng and sold the kids. But these people have gone too far. I will discuss some things here and there, but to constantly deliver punch after punch of speculation being driven as facts is absurd. This mob mentality I'm seeing on youtube doesn't help. And all the people saying the cops aren't doing anything, well it's hard to sit back and wait but the truth is it's an ongoing investigation and you won't get much. It doesn't mean the cops aren't doing anything. I have no doubt this will be solved, there's just too many avenues to the truth. Especially with the other children who are basically flies on the wall.

I believe TW put on a show for cameras when he went "looking". I've seen pictures of the area and you can see cameras on numerous houses from the street. He knew there were cameras. It's also why I believe he parked his van sideways in front of the door. This is such a sad case, but I don't think they killed them. I believe they are opportunistic scam artists who took advantage of the system and saw another opportunity to traffic these children.

Trafficking is thrown around so often by sleuthers of all varieties (I do not mean this site only, doesn’t seem as common here) but this case I will admit that I do get that tickle at the back of my brain, only one other case has triggered that feeling for me (Alicia Navarro)
So hopeful this is the actual case because that would mean the babies might still be alive and tracked down and their ages might save them from future debilitating PTSD. The idea of selling babies is beyond me, but so is killing TWO kids because they were too rambunctious.
Hated writing this post ugh Moo!

 

[Lusitana]

I’m worried LE doesn’t have much to go on. You’d think with a $100,000 reward someone would come forward with info.

Unfortunately, I highly doubt that the reward money is going to help with anything. If they went missing in California City, nobody even knew the family there. If they went missing in September in Bakersfield, people might not remember anymore about something "strange" regarding the kids and when they stopped being seen.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I hope someone in their inner circle might be the key to finding the boys. I also have to admit, I usually distance myself from any trafficking theory. Yes, human trafficking is real. That whole scenario seems to be modified in this case. No, I don’t think the boys have been sold into any crazy evil sex trade. My thoughts as to the possible motives: pure opportunistic greed. I don’t think there was an intentional plan. I think an opportunity may have risen they instinctively took advantage of soon after they were granted fostering. Maybe a same sex couple unable to meet the requirements for adoption came to their attention. I recall media initially referred to the AP as foster parents. That had to come from here the parents. I can’t see msm making that descriptive word up in the top of their heads. Or unimaginable neglect and abuse catapulted those helpless little boys straight into heaven. Idk, the words “cold case” scare me in this case.

 

[MadTing]

What i found odd was when the AD said "They are going to be rambunctious" as apposed to "They are rambunctious" or They were rambunctious" Going to be? Its such a strange way to say such a thing.

 

[k-mac]

Sure this has already been suggested.
I bet the boys were due for some type of protocol compulsory check ups for the APs to keep receiving adoptive payments.
Something triggered them to have to raise the alarm and give the game up.

moo

 

[nyvictoria]

Trafficking is thrown around so often by sleuthers of all varieties (I do not mean this site only, doesn’t seem as common here) but this case I will admit that I do get that tickle at the back of my brain, only one other case has triggered that feeling for me (Alicia Navarro)
So hopeful this is the actual case because that would mean the babies might still be alive and tracked down and their ages might save them from future debilitating PTSD. The idea of selling babies is beyond me, but so is killing TWO kids because they were too rambunctious.
Hated writing this post ugh Moo!

What makes me discount trafficking or selling the kids is that they had to know that sooner or later someone would be asking questions. If they did re-home the kids, in any way or for any reason, they surely would have had a better cover story concocted by the time they decided to call LE. Although following cases here, I’m continually amazed by how naive criminals are. I’m just not getting that vibe here.

The two possibilities I see:

• The rambunctious” boys, added to the four they already had, became too overwhelming. If they admitted they couldn’t handle it, and reached out for help, they may have had to face losing assistance, so they decided on a different solution.

• The “rambunctious” boys needed a lot of physical discipline to keep them in line. Either someone went too far or they were afraid the physical indications of that abuse would be seen by others.

Unfortunately, I don’t think either situation left two little boys alive. This family seemingly went out of their way to avoid contact with neighbors. I get that some people are very private but it seems extreme in this case. For neighbors to say they didn’t know that children were living in that house, the children were probably never allowed to have typical noisy kids fun. To me, that indicates a lot of control issues and probably a lot of discipline to keep that control.

 

[wary]

What i found odd was when the AD said "They are going to be rambunctious" as apposed to "They are rambunctious" or They were rambunctious" Going to be? Its such a strange way to say such a thing.

Well, without drawing any conclusions as to what happened, I think it makes sense.

“They are rambunctious” is a statement of fact.

“They’re boys three and four years old. Of course they’re going to be rambunctious.” This isn’t an exact quote, but you can see how it makes sense. Not strange at all, if it was said like this.

 

[Laughing]

What i found odd was when the AD said "They are going to be rambunctious" as apposed to "They are rambunctious" or They were rambunctious" Going to be? Its such a strange way to say such a thing.

Big word as well, and IIRC the speaker does not routinely use longer words.

For kids that age, "rambunctious" usually means "normal." More typical word choice might be active, rowdy, wild, certainly more.

No link, but I taught pre-k for decades. Plenty of parents are surprised to learn that their kid is like most other kids in activity level.

Those little guys may indeed be a handful, but such cuties!!!

Where are Orson & Orrin??? Unfathomable to me that we have so few images:

image from crimeonline.com

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[MadTing]

Well, without drawing any conclusions as to what happened, I think it makes sense.

“They are rambunctious” is a statement of fact.

“They’re boys three and four years old. Of course they’re going to be rambunctious.” This isn’t an exact quote, but you can see how it makes sense. Not strange at all, if it was said like this.

Actually now that you say that its just clicked in my head, you're right! it does make sense when you say it that way.

That said it seems like a pretty irrelevant thing to say at that time.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Here’s the vid with the “rambunctious” quote. My hearing is going; so maybe someone else can hear the statement.

 

[nyvictoria]

Actually now that you say that its just clicked in my head, you're right! it does make sense when you say it that way.

That said it seems like a pretty irrelevant thing to say at that time.

Completely irrelevant. Why say it? As a warning to the supposed kidnappers? You’ll be sorry you grabbed my two boys! They’re going to be rambunctious. A la Ransom of Red Chief?

 

[DidYouThinkOfThat]

What i found odd was when the AD said "They are going to be rambunctious" as apposed to "They are rambunctious" or They were rambunctious" Going to be? Its such a strange way to say such a thing.

Very good point that I have been meaning to state here as well.

The EXTREMELY strong emphasis of "GOING TO BE" has always bothered me about that video.

Watch the video and he clearly emphasizes "GOING TO BE" two times. They are GOING TO BE (he has no idea what he is going to say after that) and then after a pause goes with "rambunctious". He actually emphasizes "GOING TO BE" more than the actual descriptor that follows.

He really hones in on "GOING TO BE" because he is intentionally trying to avoid the past tense "WERE" but in the midst of this focus he forgets what he is even saying and then falls on "rambunctious".

Clearly deceptive IMO. Supreme Intelligence? SMH.

 

[alexwood]

Here’s the vid with the “rambunctious” quote. My hearing is going; so maybe someone else can hear the statement.

Fast forward to 5:49 min. mark.

 

[Laughing]

Completely irrelevant. Why say it? As a warning to the supposed kidnappers? You’ll be sorry you grabbed my two boys! They’re going to be rambunctious. A la Ransom of Red Chief?

Love it!!!

Who corrects the person who says "foster parents?" Another reporter, not either parent? Think I'd speak up -- "I am their mother, thank you" or something? Something?

Not getting good vibes from TW.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have developed a strong aversion to the word “rambunctious”.

 

[nannymo]

Sure this has already been suggested.
I bet the boys were due for some type of protocol compulsory check ups for the APs to keep receiving adoptive payments.
Something triggered them to have to raise the alarm and give the game up.

moo

BINGO!!!

 

[Greenestdays]

Here’s the vid with the “rambunctious” quote. My hearing is going; so maybe someone else can hear the statement.

Hello, I first found this forum because of the Esther Dingley disappearance, but this O&O case made me sign up.

Granted, my cultural background is different, but having read all the threads regarding this case and looked at several videos on YT, I still can't understand how so many seem so sure that the adoptive family are to blame.
Looking at the video I quoted, what I see are two very distressed individuals in a very hostile environment. And if I am not mistaken, is this not the only appearance they have made on camera?
Imagine you are not the very sociable type and suddenly you are thrust into the limelight because the literally worst has happened. You can barely handle yourself, but you must also be aware of how you present yourself, because maybe you are not sympathetic enough. And now you are asked to talk in front of cameras, and a bunch of chavs are heckling you.

I understand the theories that perhaps the kids were never there etc. But I can't understand how anyone can describe the adoptive parents as emtionless or whatnot. They seem very distressed and anxious to me.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Hello, I first found this forum because of the Esther Dingley disappearance, but this O&O case made me sign up.

Granted, my cultural background is different, but having read all the threads regarding this case and looked at several videos on YT, I still can't understand how so many seem so sure that the adoptive family are to blame.
Looking at the video I quoted, what I see are two very distressed individuals in a very hostile environment. And if I am not mistaken, is this not the only appearance they have made on camera?
Imagine you are not the very sociable type and suddenly you are thrust into the limelight because the literally worst has happened. You can barely handle yourself, but you must also be aware of how you present yourself, because maybe you are not sympathetic enough. And now you are asked to talk in front of cameras, and a bunch of chavs are heckling you.

I understand the theories that perhaps the kids were never there etc. But I can't understand how anyone can describe the adoptive parents as emtionless or whatnot. They seem very distressed and anxious to me.

Welcome to WS. I appreciate your opinion and view. It’s not easy to go against the grain. I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder.