Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[cvaldez1975]

That is institutionalization. And the money maker. Then, the kids get thrown back into the system when they age out, no more cash. Kick to the curb.

its not entirely true. my son has two friends who are orphans. they aged out of foster and got assistance getting housing and cert for jobs. they actually worked it and are working and still room mates, they are 23 and 24. the problem is the resources are short and some of these kids dont have the ability to adhere to these programs.

 

[mickey2942]

its not entirely true. my son has two friends who are orphans. they aged out of foster and got assistance getting housing and cert for jobs. they actually worked it and are working and still room mates, they are 23 and 24. the problem is the resources are short and some of these kids dont have the ability to adhere to these programs.

That is true. The issue is when people adopt foster kids, get the adoption grant, and then when the adoption grant ends, at age 18, the "adoptive parents", kick the kids out, with nothing. Literally.

 

[cvaldez1975]

That is true. The issue is when people adopt foster kids, get the adoption grant, and then when the adoption grant ends, at age 18, the "adoptive parents", kick the kids out, with nothing. Literally.

ooouu yes that can happen and probably more than we want to know

 

[ChatteringBirds]

That is true. The issue is when people adopt foster kids, get the adoption grant, and then when the adoption grant ends, at age 18, the "adoptive parents", kick the kids out, with nothing. Literally.

I hope that's rare. That's disgusting.

 

[whatiknow]

Uh? 26 kids at once? In the same house? In a normal sized, family home? That just doesn’t even make sense.

I think either it was a typo or the same message was being sent to regular foster families and group homes.

its not entirely true. my son has two friends who are orphans. they aged out of foster and got assistance getting housing and cert for jobs. they actually worked it and are working and still room mates, they are 23 and 24. the problem is the resources are short and some of these kids dont have the ability to adhere to these programs.

The programs can be hard to adhere to. I knew a girl who got in a fight with her roommate and her roommate kept reporting her to their program until the program kicked her out.
They are also underfunded so often there isn't space in the program for everyone who ages out each year. Most foster kids end up homeless.

 

[musemoon]

That is true. The issue is when people adopt foster kids, get the adoption grant, and then when the adoption grant ends, at age 18, the "adoptive parents", kick the kids out, with nothing. Literally.

I am a foster adoptive parent and I know hundreds of others (I'm very connected to the foster adoption community) and I know exactly ZERO parents who have kicked their kids out at 18 years old. I know parents who have had to put their children in short term therapeutic care for trauma and parents whose 18 year olds have struggled with adulthood, but not one single foster/adoptive parent in my circle has ever kicked their child to the curb....which translated means, saying that a foster/adoptive parents are ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY is really hateful. Most fost adopt parents parent harder and more than any regular family ever will because EVERY SINGLE FOSTER CHILD...every single one has experienced some sort of trauma. That can manifest as fire starting, violence, sexually acting out, withdrawal, tantrums, suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation, and the list goes on and is long. Some kids are great and have no long lasting issues, some struggle their whole lives....but to say that fost adopt parents just kick their kids out when the paycheck stops, that just isn't true or fair because for MOST fost adopt families, the truth is they end up paying thousands of dollars for extended treatment and support for children who can never be mainstreamed into society...those are the real facts. Yes, there might be some who kick their kids out and frankly, those are the parents who should have never adopted foster kids in the first place because they didn't have the parenting chops for the job. People think that foster/adoption will be easy and they'll get a cute little baby and ride off into the sunset when in truth there is no such child. They all have trauma to overcome....every single one. Some handle it better than others, some are more drug-exposed, more traumatized, more mentally ill and they have it harder...you just never know. But until you've walked in their shoes...you don't know, but I will say MOST foster/adoptive parents not only stay with their children past the age of 18, but have to parent adult children for the rest of their lives.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I think either it was a typo or the same message was being sent to regular foster families and group homes.


The programs can be hard to adhere to. I knew a girl who got in a fight with her roommate and her roommate kept reporting her to their program until the program kicked her out.
They are also underfunded so often there isn't space in the program for everyone who ages out each year. Most foster kids end up homeless.

yes i know. the brothers my son knows, got some type of section 8 or something and got a 2 bedroom aprt together, so they didnt have to live w anyone else. but i also do recall a case on websleuths where there were some aged out foster kids in san bernardino co. living in a group setting and they were doing some hood stuff. like pimping and selling drugs or something.

 

[mickey2942]

I hope that's rare. That's disgusting.

It is not rare. When I worked in a prison, I was surprised by how many people there had been foster care or adopted.

But back to focus on O and O. Nothing much is happening, no news.

I am so sad. I want there to be a clear resolution in this case. And I personally hope that the placement of O and O in this home is reviewed.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I am a foster adoptive parent and I know hundreds of others (I'm very connected to the foster adoption community) and I know exactly ZERO parents who have kicked their kids out at 18 years old. I know parents who have had to put their children in short term therapeutic care for trauma and parents whose 18 year olds have struggled with adulthood, but not one single foster/adoptive parent in my circle has ever kicked their child to the curb....which translated means, saying that a foster/adoptive parents are ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY is really hateful. Most fost adopt parents parent harder and more than any regular family ever will because EVERY SINGLE FOSTER CHILD...every single one has experienced some sort of trauma. That can manifest as fire starting, violence, sexually acting out, withdrawal, tantrums, suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation, and the list goes on and is long. Some kids are great and have no long lasting issues, some struggle their whole lives....but to say that fost adopt parents just kick their kids out when the paycheck stops, that just isn't true or fair because for MOST fost adopt families, the truth is they end up paying thousands of dollars for extended treatment and support for children who can never be mainstreamed into society...those are the real facts. Yes, there might be some who kick their kids out and frankly, those are the parents who should have never adopted foster kids in the first place because they didn't have the parenting chops for the job. People think that foster/adoption will be easy and they'll get a cute little baby and ride off into the sunset when in truth there is no such child. They all have trauma to overcome....every single one. Some handle it better than others, some are more drug-exposed, more traumatized, more mentally ill and they have it harder...you just never know. But until you've walked in their shoes...you don't know, but I will say MOST foster/adoptive parents not only stay with their children past the age of 18, but have to parent adult children for the rest of their lives.

i love and appreciate what u do. i think that poster meant when some do, def not all.

 

[musemoon]

i love and appreciate what u do. i think that poster meant when some do, def not all.

Thanks, I think the issue in this case (and in other fost adopt cases like the Hart case) is these families have too many traumatized kids (be it for financial gain if that is a factor, or perhaps the social workers have asked them to take kids as they are always calling with more children) and the parents get in over their heads, which either leads to neglect and abuse or abandonment. One would think that in the case of O and O since the entire family was involved in foster care and adoption, that they would be well experienced, but something happened....so?

 

[Seattle1]

I am a foster adoptive parent and I know hundreds of others (I'm very connected to the foster adoption community) and I know exactly ZERO parents who have kicked their kids out at 18 years old.

^^rsbm
Thank you for your kind and generous heart.
Before learning about these foster and adoptive cases that go wrong -- I had no idea of the financial incentives by individual states-- California especially! I have many relatives in my life that joined us mostly by private adoption where they came to us as gifts to be loved and supported until the end. I'd like to think that the majority have good endings, and we only read about the bad ones.

 

[LietKynes]

Still nothing.
Hoping for a break in this case soon and why LE asked for anyone to come forward who have seen these boys in the last year.
Were there any planned visits or physical checkups for the boys, where 'excuses' were given for their absence --- and this absence was ignored and glossed over ?
It's too late now most likely, but I wish bio family members had been able to step up and take them before cps decided they had to be adopted out.
MOO

 

[Jo in Calif]

I really find it hard to believe that "we" made the decision to place the 4 other brothers in the hands of the FBI. IMO those other 4 were taken by cps not placed there by family.

Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused.

Today I am still in shock, hurt, worried, upset but not confused. I am clear that my purpose and mission is to get my babies back. All six of them.

PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

 

[rosesfromangels]

That is institutionalization. And the money maker. Then, the kids get thrown back into the system when they age out, no more cash. Kick to the curb.

What you are pointing out is a *huge* failure of the system. The system needs to provide training to these children to prepare them for "aging out". That means transitioning them in to job core, a trade school, or help them get scholarships to college. The foster system needs to be reformed to focus on this aspect of preparing these children for self sufficiency, and to become contributing members of society.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Chocoholic]

I really find it hard to believe that "we" made the decision to place the 4 other brothers in the hands of the FBI. IMO those other 4 were taken by cps not placed there by family.

Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused.

Today I am still in shock, hurt, worried, upset but not confused. I am clear that my purpose and mission is to get my babies back. All six of them.

PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

Definitely different choice of words! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Knox]

I really find it hard to believe that "we" made the decision to place the 4 other brothers in the hands of the FBI. IMO those other 4 were taken by cps not placed there by family.

Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused.

Today I am still in shock, hurt, worried, upset but not confused. I am clear that my purpose and mission is to get my babies back. All six of them.

PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

Word salad of sorts ... surely the FBI explained where the children would be placed and who would have jurisdiction over them? IMO she is explaining why the other four kids are not with the extended family, but I'm not sure they had a choice in the matter? Regardless, at this point they could petition for custody and it sounds like that is now her "mission".

I'm not fond of the thought of the kids being placed with WW, at least not before the investigation is completed. I would worry that TW & JW would try and see them or communicate with them.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I really find it hard to believe that "we" made the decision to place the 4 other brothers in the hands of the FBI. IMO those other 4 were taken by cps not placed there by family.

Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused.

Today I am still in shock, hurt, worried, upset but not confused. I am clear that my purpose and mission is to get my babies back. All six of them.

PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

I really want to believe this G'ma. I really do. I really want to believe TW and JW. I really do. But for that to happen, I need them to explain why they weren't running around frantically shouting out the children's names and knocking on neighbors doors. Why weren't they frantic? Why didn't they talk about the *children* during the press conference? Why didn't they beg the public for help? Why didn't they shut down the naysayers by boldly stepping up to talk to the press repeatedly like innocent people would? WHY CAN WE ONLY SEE FOUR CHILDREN GETTING IN THAT VAN on the video footage from the neighbor? Why? Why? Why can't I believe you despite the fact I really want to?
Why can't I believe this G'Ma after the police were all over her house too? I really want to, but I can't.

Why do I think these children were sold, although I don't want to. Because that possibility makes me physically ill thinking about it.

I really, really want to believe them. But I can't.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Ontario Mom]

I really find it hard to believe that "we" made the decision to place the 4 other brothers in the hands of the FBI. IMO those other 4 were taken by cps not placed there by family.

Less than 18 hours after their disappearance we made the heart wrenching choice to place their four brothers (my other babies) in the hands of the FBI for their protection. We had no clue what was happening or who was out there and in an instant all six of my grandchildren were gone. Out of my reach. I was shocked, hurt, worried, upset and confused.

Today I am still in shock, hurt, worried, upset but not confused. I am clear that my purpose and mission is to get my babies back. All six of them.

PLEASE HELP RETURN MY BABIES — A GRANDMOTHERS PLEA

It's rather interesting that the account profile is using the same 2 pics of the boys that we've all seen in the media. Does the West family NOT have any more recent pics of the boys? I'd love it if grandma West mentioned the last time she ever saw them or spoke to them.

 

[mickey2942]

What you are pointing out is a *huge* failure of the system. The system needs to provide training to these children to prepare them for "aging out". That means transitioning them in to job core, a trade school, or help them get scholarships to college. The foster system needs to be reformed to focus on this aspect of preparing these children for self sufficiency, and to become contributing members of society.

Amateur opinion and speculation

There are programs, but normally a 16/17 year old kid who has been on the edge of neglect and abuse their entire life doesn't know about them.

If they end up with a caseworker who really cares, (rare, because they burn out or get bullied by ones who want to be lazy), and if the kid actually has a "spark" left to actually want to get up and out, Job Corps is a great program, military is a potential option, if they can get chosen.

It is not easy to change. Often these kids have hidden disabilities, hearing loss is common, because they have been hit "upside the head" so often, poor vision, from detached retinas, left untreated, damaged teeth, from no dental care, a flat affect, from just having been ignored and neglected. They did not grow up in homes with nurturing and encouragement. Most end up homeless, invisible.

Sorry for my bleak story. I have seen so many. And I guess, those were the "lucky" ones. They didn't just "dissappear".

 

[Limecat]

I really want to believe this G'ma. I really do. I really want to believe TW and JW. I really do. But for that to happen, I need them to explain why they weren't running around frantically shouting out the children's names and knocking on neighbors doors. Why weren't they frantic? Why didn't they talk about the *children* during the press conference? Why didn't they beg the public for help? Why didn't they shut down the naysayers by boldly stepping up to talk to the press repeatedly like innocent people would? WHY CAN WE ONLY SEE FOUR CHILDREN GETTING IN THAT VAN on the video footage from the neighbor? Why? Why? Why can't I believe you despite the fact I really want to?
Why can't I believe this G'Ma after the police were all over her house too? I really want to, but I can't.

Why do I think these children were sold, although I don't want to. Because that possibility makes me physically ill thinking about it.

I really, really want to believe them. But I can't.

Amateur opinion and speculation

So much this^^^^^^^