Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

[nyvictoria]

My apologies if this has been discussed and I missed it, but I wonder if DCFS has a previous and/or still open file on this Family, and maybe the reason the other children are in protective custody.
I don’t remember in other missing children’s cases I’ve followed, the siblings being removed from the home so expeditiously, at least not that I can recall atm. I believe AJ Freund’s little brother was eventually removed from the home but iirc, he was not immediately removed. Orrin and Orson’s siblings being removed practically on day one and LE focus on the home, digging up their yard especially so early on, really makes me wonder if there’s been previous calls/history/documentation of any DCFS involvement with this family. Although, I’m assuming they wouldn’t have been allowed to adopt any children in the first place, as surely any DCFS involvement showing up during the adoption vetting process would have disqualified them? But maybe DCFS involvement, if any, didn’t happen until after they adopted the children, in the past year and a half. But they have other adopted children and not sure of their ages or when the other children were adopted.

These are some of my rambling thoughts, just trying to figure out possible reasons why LE focusing in so intently on the home/haven’t left the home and branched their search out. But I guess it could be attributed to the parents story just sounded sketchy and off to LE, plus other concerning things like neighbors not having ever seen the children, not on video surveillance etc., is why LE has zeroed in/focused on the home.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Hoping against hope for a miracle, but I’m afraid it’s not looking good for these precious little boys.

IMHO

Totally agree, the other children being removed so quickly doesn't exactly give me hope for Orsin and Orrin.

As for DCFS possibly halting the adoption if there was a known issue in the adoptive family, DCFS has dropped the ball in too many cases. Little Gabriel Fernandez, who lived in nearby Palmdale, LA County, was tortured to death by his bio mother and her boyfriend. DCFS had been to the home numerous times and observed bruising, swelling, scabs. His teacher reported observed injuries. The boy wrote a suicide note! DCFS left him in the home.

IMO DCFS needs a total revamp country-wide.

I started following this thread from the beginning, and was firmly in the parent's corner.
I didn't want to let the whole Watts Affect influence the way I thought about dad's folded arms, or mom's rocking back and forth, so I gave them the "they're in auto-pilot" benefit of the doubt.
I think though, many of us will forever associate that kind of body language with a big neon sign in our minds that reads "GUILTY!", whether it's fair or accurate or not.

I was still in the parents corner until I learned LE was digging their back yard.
I mean, when you report your children missing and the local LE do not immediately launch a search but instead... start digging up your own back yard, it's a good indicator LE just isn't buying what the parents are selling.

Yep. The digging did it for me too.

 

[fcavanaugh]

The almost immediate digging in the backyard is truly worrisome. Would the parents be THAT stupid? I know, many before them have done it, whether child, spouse or friend. But, what if LE weren’t looking for the boys remains and rather a stash of cash? I get this won’t be a popular idea but usually they don’t dig unless they know earth has been disturbed. If the AP’s trafficked the boys and had a wad of $$ they certainly couldn’t deposit it into their bank account.

Maybe I’m just losing my mind and getting a touch carried away but I think at this point everything is on the table. JMHO.

I don’t think you’re losing your mind at all @susiQ. Lots of thoughts have been running through my mind and the scenario you describe above has definitely crossed my mind. Anything is possible, and when we have limited info to work with, everything is on the table, no matter how improbable.

I don’t know if I’ve just become jaded or what, but after following so many of these horrific cases and seeing what some parents are capable of doing to their own children, nothing would surprise me anymore, unfortunately.

IMHO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I started following this thread from the beginning, and was firmly in the parent's corner.
I didn't want to let the whole Watts Affect influence the way I thought about dad's folded arms, or mom's rocking back and forth, so I gave them the "they're in auto-pilot" benefit of the doubt.
I think though, many of us will forever associate that kind of body language with a big neon sign in our minds that reads "GUILTY!", whether it's fair or accurate or not.

I was still in the parents corner until I learned LE was digging their back yard.
I mean, when you report your children missing and the local LE do not immediately launch a search but instead... start digging up your own back yard, it's a good indicator LE just isn't buying what the parents are selling.

The other children being in protective custody is a huge tell to me. They would not do that unless absolutely necessary. I doubt a judge would sign for that without absolute probable cause. They usually avoid that kind of thing like the plague. MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

APs moved to new house, no idea if all their children moved in or not.
I'm not sure it's confirmed that anyone saw any children? Not just O and O.
LE said they found DNA within the house but not leaving. Could that just mean they had their toothbrushes?
The post you quoted from me was in response to the police gathering items from the home instead of checking into the desert. My assumption is they were looking for evidence of the boys ever even living there, as no one else can vouch for that fact.

Thank you for clearing up some things for me.
Still catching up on these 2 little guys missing

 

[Spartygirl]

In other cases like this, there have been sudden moves to a different house, later tied to the child's death. I'm going to guess the moves are to get away from people in their former community who would notice and ask where the boys were.

IMO, these boys never left Bakersfield. And dogs picked up the boy's scent, inside the new house, because of items brought from the old house.

Thank you @SuziQ
I am leaning on the same side of the fence regarding the move, if the boys moved also, etc.

 

[Luckyzmom]

So just trying to follow LE here,are they in Bakersfield at prior residence searching now ? Yesterday it was announced that BPD and KCSO are involved.
Am sorry ISG, I am praying for the miracle again , Lord these babies need an angel ! It's hard to stick to TOS ! Gonna pray and sit on my hands some more Please let them be found soon MOO MOO

 

[susiQ]

I don’t think you’re losing your mind at all @susiQ. Lots of thoughts have been running through my mind and the scenario you describe above has definitely crossed my mind. Anything is possible, and when we have limited info to work with, everything is on the table, no matter how improbable.

I don’t know if I’ve just become jaded or what, but after following so many of these horrific cases and seeing what some parents are capable of doing to their own children, there isn’t anything that would surprise me any more, unfortunately.

IMHO

Thank you for the reassurance @fcavanaugh. There are days my brain turns to mush and I worry about what I post. Like you though, after following many of these cases, nothing would surprise me anymore. Sadly .

 

[LietKynes]

The almost immediate digging in the backyard is truly worrisome. Would the parents be THAT stupid? I know, many before them have done it, whether child, spouse or friend. But, what if LE weren’t looking for the boys remains and rather a stash of cash? I get this won’t be a popular idea but usually they don’t dig unless they know earth has been disturbed. If the AP’s trafficked the boys and had a wad of $$ they certainly couldn’t deposit it into their bank account.

Maybe I’m just losing my mind and getting a touch carried away but I think at this point everything is on the table. JMHO.

Ita.
Not too 'out there'; imo.

LE confiscated the adoptive parent's phone, and also their van.
What did they discover ?
My .02 is that the boys weren't at that house even if scent was found from soiled clothing or whatever --but that Orrin and Orson were long gone.

Question : Is it possible to 'fool' SAR dogs by bringing dirty clothes/pull ups/ etc., and rubbing them on the floor or furniture to mimic the scent of boys who were never there ?
If this is what happened ?

If abducted ... than it was not by a stranger driving through town.
I think the siblings may have some idea when they last saw them.
And LE know much more than we do !
MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

I think the aunt has hopped on the band wagon and it all about her. When did she last see the boys? What contact does she have with them. It seems that this was not an open adoption and the bio family does not keep in touch. MOO

Exactly !!
When did grandma last see the boys??
When did the "Aunt" last see the boys ??
When did the other siblings last see the boys?
When did anyone last see them?
This is what LE needs to figure out and then go from there, IMO

 

[SuziQ]

The other children being in protective custody is a huge tell to me. They would not do that unless absolutely necessary. I doubt a judge would sign for that without absolute probable cause. They usually avoid that kind of thing like the plague. MOO

I'm not wanting to sleuth the kids. Does anyone know how old they are? I'm thinking they would have a lot to say.

 

[Laughing]

Somewhat OT, finally figured out why I smile every time I see this thread title:

image from twitter.com

Where are these two precious, rambunctious boys?


jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Inquisitive2018]

If AP's know more than what they're saying, what would be the reason to call 911 on that day, at that time, especially if neighbors hadn't seen the children since September?

Other kids were coming back ? It reminds me of Taylor Williams, it didn't seem like anyone was looking for Taylor but yet mom reported her missing. Maybe she thought enough time had passed that she could get away with it? Eventually someone would ask about them.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Just curious why some here are using "AP" or "adopted parents" instead of just "parents"?
From what I understood, legally, parents who adopt their children are considered full, legal, parents, without any sort of qualifier like "adopted".
Maybe I misunderstood that though?

 

[Bopit]

Just curious why some here are using "AP" or "adopted parents" instead of just "parents"?
From what I understood, legally, parents who adopt their children are considered full, legal, parents, without any sort of qualifier like "adopted".
Maybe I misunderstood that though?

I think it's just to solidly clarify as there are the adopted Mom and Dad, the bio Mom, and two separate Dads.

<modsnip> MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

Bringing the full interview with parents back up for review. It's been raised previously, when the camera man zooms in on TW's hands - did he see something which they were trying to capture on camera? Then at the end when they are walking in the house, the camera man tries to zoom in again. It's a bit strange right?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=390820925484800

It is difficult to see his hands as he keeps them tucked in under his armpits the whole time.
Even when describing "out looking" for the boys and she talks about being in the yard, her hands are moving, expressive hand gestures, while his remains folded and hidden.
Just weird to me, IMO

 

[Megnut]

It would be interesting to know what was planned for their family in the week after they became missing. Were the other kids scheduled to come home? Getting together with family? Any upcoming appointments.. things like that.

Christmas.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes, according to the reporter in the video at this link, the neighbors said they hadn't seen them in the past day and a half. It's near the end. MOO

FBI interviewing adoptive parents of missing California City boys | KGET 17

ETA: Link to today's update from the Chief

CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), Aspen /California City, 21 Dec 2020

BBM-- oh... so the boys have been seen at the new house and only a day and half prior to them missing ???
That is good to know since I was leaning towards the boys did not make the move with the rest of the family, IMO

 

[shotgun09]

IMO, just speculating of course, but upon LE interviewing said Grandparents who had the " vacationing" other kids...there more than likely were red flags raised. As in, maybe they ( the Grandparents) had not seen O and O since xyz number of days, weeks or months. The kids were instantly removed to CPS custody, and not allowed to stay with the grandparent(s).

Regarding the interview of the parents, I found it to be suspicious because of the well rehearsed manner of his story telling, the avoiding past tense, and the ending of .."It all played out". The rocking motion of the mother is a self soothing manner/method but I was bothered by it none the less. I also got a sense of another emotion with her during his storytelling that I cannot put my finger on. Was it fear, trepidation, caution? IMO, She was trying to portray agreement with him by nodding often, but there was definitely something else showing through. And it wasn't fear for her little ones either.

 

[MsMarple]

I continue to scratch my head over the alleged jack hammering heard by a neighbor. Chief Walker acknowledged that LE dug in the backyard but didn't say anything about jack hammers or concrete/brick. So right now all we have is an observation by a neighbor.

IMO it's important because to state the obvious if LE broke through poured concrete or a wall or any other solid surface then they clearly suspect the boys have been missing way before December 21. I wish a reporter would have clarified it with the chief during the presser, although who knows if he would have answered.

Thursday, December 24th 2020:
Wednesday evening around 9P.M. concerned neighbors and community members say they saw the FBI and police working in the backyard.

"Checked in yesterday and that's when we pulled up and saw the investigation going on and them digging in the backyard and...what we think was digging," Wayne Leonard, a neighbor, said. "They had jack hammers, and roto hammers going, lots of lights out."

Laura Romero says a local flew a drone while the digging was happening.

"I did look at the videos myself and what it looked like to me is they were sifting through fine dirt to find things and they would find things and they would put them in baggies," Romero, said.
Missing California City boys being investigated by FBI, multiple agencies

 

[fcavanaugh]

BBM-- oh... so the boys have been seen at the new house and only a day and half prior to them missing ???
That is good to know since I was leaning towards the boys did not make the move with the rest of the family, IMO

Well I think this was a little confusing, and iirc it was pointed out earlier, something to the effect that the neighbor was probably asked, “have you seen the boys at all the past day and a half” ?, response “no”, direct answer to a direct question so to speak. Subsequently, neighbors elaborated that they haven’t *ever* seen the children since the family moved to the neighborhood 3 months ago.

Admittedly, I have not read all MSM reports, or watched all videos yet, so someone please correct me if I interpreted this wrong.

IMHO