Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #19 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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If GPS was put on his car while he was under surveillance, it would be helpful for the searchers to know where he did go to exclude places to search since it seems he never went back to the scene(s).
 
diamond12 said:
yeah right :rolleyes:
That doesn't make sense as he could have disposed of the body before the GPS was placed on his car.
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Yeah! Not only that, but didn't his mom say he knew he was being followed? If he knew he was being followed, he probably wouldn't go anywhere near where he put her body and would stay away from suspicious activity. Duh. His mother is not doing him any favors saying things like that.

Honestly, I would be surprised if he kept Sierra alive for longer than 24 hours. I hate to say this because it just makes me so sad, but I wouldn't be surprised if he killed her before her family even knew she was missing. They didn't start following him until like March 28th IIRC. By then, I don't think she was alive anymore so that comment really doesn't make any sense!
 
Eclipse33 said:
It's ok Leighmarker....all. We all feel the same way! Either our husbands, wives or significant others think we are crazy and need to get a new hobby. My boyfriend constantly asks 'Are you going to kill me someday and hide my body'....to which I reply no, but I guess it's just b/c I'm interested in true crime. Oh well!
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how funny my hubs says I watch so I can kill him and not get caught! My mom thinks I am insane to get so wrapped up in these things.
But, like you I thrive on true crime and the bad guys getting caught (hopefully)
 
liltexans said:
Wouldn't it still be kidnapping if he subsequently held her against her will? She's a minor for one thing.
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I am guessing if they never find her/or her body kidnapping charge would be hard to prove?
 
another thing, lawyer has him waive a "speedy trial" so they can get their own experts/witnesses...probably means we won't be seeing this dude go to trial for a long time.
 
Fashionista_Gal said:
Yeah! Not only that, but didn't his mom say he knew he was being followed? If he knew he was being followed, he probably wouldn't go anywhere near where he put her body and would stay away from suspicious activity. Duh. His mother is not doing him any favors saying things like that.

Honestly, I would be surprised if he kept Sierra alive for longer than 24 hours. I hate to say this because it just makes me so sad, but I wouldn't be surprised if he killed her before her family even knew she was missing. They didn't start following him until like March 28th IIRC. By then, I don't think she was alive anymore so that comment really doesn't make any sense!
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I don't believe she was alive either after her clothes were found like 2 days later. IMO she was not alive by that time. I hope I'm wrong but its not looking good.
 
I agree. If you were a juror, would you be influenced by what Clark called an alibi, that the victim was found in a locale there was no evidence the accused ever visited? Strictly speaking, that is not even an alibi at all. Just a ridiculous effort to prove a negative.
 
nursebeeme said:
I think the talking head basically is saying because it is not a separate charge vs murder with special circumstances (the special circumstance being kidnapping)

that being said, without a body I think they had to do it the way they did.

moo
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I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure if I understand this. If the jury finds him guilty of murdering Sierra doesn't that mean that he kidnapped her as well since he would have had to kidnap her to murder her?

What is the difference between including the kidnapping with the murder charge vs. charging him with both kidnapping and murder?

Thanks!
 
Tuba said:
I agree. If you were a juror, would you be influenced by what Clark called an alibi, that the victim was found in a locale there was no evidence the accused ever visited? Strictly speaking, that is not even an alibi at all. Just a ridiculous effort to prove a negative.
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I agree, that makes no sense. I've been googling trying to find if LE has mentioned if ATG had a cell phone with him on the day of the abduction, but I can't find anything except that Sierra's cell phone was found close to the area where she was abducted.

I was thinking about how LE eventually found Tori. They analyzed his cell phone records and found that he had pinged in the area where Tori was eventually found.
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure if I understand this. If the jury finds him guilty of murdering Sierra doesn't that mean that he kidnapped her as well since he would have had to kidnap her to murder her?

What is the difference between including the kidnapping with the murder charge vs. charging him with both kidnapping and murder?

Thanks!
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http://losgatos.patch.com/articles/...lk-free?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Garcia-Torres is believed to be responsible for the kidnapping and presumed murder of Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar, but is only being charged with one count of murder. Kidnapping has been added to the charge as a "special circumstance"—a decision that Clark says could backfire on the prosecution and send the suspect home free.

The reason Garcia-Torres could escape jail time is simply because the jury doesn’t have a fall-back position. If the jury doesn’t find Garcia-Torres guilty on the one count of murder, then its members don’t “get to the kidnapping” part, Clark said.

“Because there’s only one count, which is murder, they’ve alleged the kidnapping as a special circumstance, but it’s not an independent count at this point, so if they don’t believe he killed her but they believe he kidnapped her, then he would be found not guilty [of murder] and I don’t believe they can retry him again,” Clark said.

I hope I am allowed to post this, if not Mods...I am sorry
 
It may have been sloppy reporting but May 24, A.G.-T. was charged with two counts: 1.) murder 2.) kidnapping. The actual documents may not have been available but MSM named and listed the two. Then A.G.-T. returns on May 31 and refrains once more from pleading but again seeks continuance. Some negotiations may have already occurred but now we have kidnapping only as a special circumstance. What will we see next, when A.G.-T. returns in July? We need desperately to locate the victim
 
Tuba said:
It may have been sloppy reporting but May 24, A.G.-T. was charged with two counts: 1.) murder 2.) kidnapping. The actual documents may not have been available but MSM named and listed the two. Then A.G.-T. returns on May 31 and refrains once more from pleading but again seeks continuance. Some negotiations may have already occurred but now we have kidnapping only as a special circumstance. What will we see next, when A.G.-T. returns in July? We need desperately to locate the victim
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Nadler postponed the formal reading of the charges until 2 p.m., May 31 to allow whoever will represent Garcia-Torres a chance to read the criminal 1½-page felony complaint filed today against the defendant on one count of murder, with the special circumstance of committing the murder during a kidnapping.

I only find the one count?

http://losgatos.patch.com/articles/sierra-lamar-murder-suspect-arraigned-in-court-today
 
Just the fact that Torres has not pleaded Not Guilty, means he is guilty of something, right? I mean, if he had nothing to do with her disappearance and murder he would have an explanation for any evidence they found. Since he is still being held, LE has some very damning evidence in addition to his DNA on her belongings and her DNA in his car. Could we be looking at Sierra's hair with the death band somewhere in all of this. That would certainly prove she was dead, right?

Still she could have died by accident? What would make LE so sure Torres "murdered" Sierra?
 
Morgan Hill police Sergeant Troy Hoefling says an assault charge against A.G.-T. is complete with all investigation & paper work and ready to send to the district attorney. That charge may be prosecuted before the special circs. murder. It will be useful in demonstrating the pattern of criminal behavior in the accused. (He's referring to the parking lot assaults, of course.)

It will be crucial to prove that Sierra is dead & that she was kidnapped. Once the jury is convinced A.G.-T. kidnapped her, her death is felony murder by law. One of the news outlets that reported there were initially two counts is MSNBC. I can see how that happened as A.G.-T. was booked on both at his arrest. So that was law enforcement's action before the prosecutor's governance.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the charge of murder with special circumstances makes him eligible for the death penalty. It appears they chose to charge him this way for that reason and also so they could use it as a bargaining chip for life in prison without parole if he tells them where Sierras body is.

IMO, they must have some pretty damning evidence by choosing to go this route, knowing that if they don't get a conviction he could walk.

I certainly hope that is the case.
 
BeginnersLuck said:
If I'm not mistaken, the charge of murder with special circumstances makes him eligible for the death penalty. It appears they chose to charge him this way for that reason and also so they could use it as a bargaining chip for life in prison without parole if he tells them where Sierras body is.

IMO, they must have some pretty damning evidence by choosing to go this route, knowing that if they don't get a conviction he could walk.

I certainly hope that is the case.
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I sure hope not..smelling some CA odor:what:
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure if I understand this. If the jury finds him guilty of murdering Sierra doesn't that mean that he kidnapped her as well since he would have had to kidnap her to murder her?

What is the difference between including the kidnapping with the murder charge vs. charging him with both kidnapping and murder?

Thanks!
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I'm not really sure. I'm not a lawyer, so take the following with a huge spoonful of salt.

I think that by combining the kidnapping and murder charges, the prosecutor is automatically making the jury's choice between not guilty and guilty of murder in the first degree (death penalty or LWOP).

If they separated the charges, then the jury could conceivably find him not guilty on the kidnapping and guilty of manslaughter. If he were found guilty only of manslaughter, then he could be back on the streets within 10 years or so (I'm not sure of the sentencing but figuring a max of something like 20 years with time off for good behaviour).

So how could he be found not guilty of kidnapping but guilty of causing Sierra's death?

One very far fetched scenario would be that he tasered Sierra from behind and Sierra died on the spot. It's rare but it happens. Then he picks up her body, puts it in his car and disposes of it elsewhere.

Under those circumstances, he's not guilty of kidnap because only the living can be kidnapped. He's guilty of illegal disposal of a corpse (something like that).

It's not likely but it is possible.
 
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