Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #5 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[OldSteve]

I just think it's better practice to say 'they appear to be' or something like that, then actually committing to the public that they were used. Not sure why this is bothering me lol ::doh::

Agree, agree! Unless they actually did some testing, they should say "appears" - and if they did do testing they should say so...

 

[Caligram]

I think that this was might have been a stupid prank, intended to be found in the search for Sierra. Or it could have no significance to this case, just trash tossed there by teens who parked/"partied" there.

 

[OldSteve]

I know what you mean! <g>

I guess my expectations of what the media prints are, well, not held to a very high standard anymore. Inaccuracies abound!

Take, for example, my link last night about the house on Scheller. It was pointed-out to me that this was old news but the article I linked was dated yesterday. Another kind poster pointed-out that the links it contained went to older articles (I hadn't checked); but as I am sure we are all aware, the media will often run with a new development in the story opening then fill the rest of the article with exactly the same words/paragraphs used in older articles.

~jmo~

You are right about the news/media - IMO they purposely do things such that they appear as new news when you Google search news for the past hour or 24 hours. Makes it difficult to filter out what's really new news.
Sorry of OT rant...

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's hard to imagine it takes 4 days to talk about her JC bag, but, a handcuff box and used condoms get same day coverage in the media, isn't it?

Could be as simple as a reporter happened to be on the scene when LE was notified about the finds.

From what I can see from over 2000 miles away, it looks like the media is all over this case. They're bound to get a few lucky scoops just because they are right there all the time.

And if this isn't the first time this area was searched, why did they go back a second time? (actually I thought they said there weren't any searches scheduled yesterday, so was confused about how a kk team member found them, but I digress)

How can they move forward to new areas if they keep going back?
Maybe that's the point. To keep the areas searched honed right in this neighborhood.

From my experience in watching other cases, it is very, very common in missing persons cases for LE to do a quick search of the general area (hoping to find the victim alive). If the victim isn't found quickly, then LE goes back and conducts a much more involved, detailed search, looking for every tiny bit of anything that may be evidence.

And sometimes they go back over the same areas a third and even fourth time.

This happens so often that I believe it falls under Standard Operating Procedure.

It's logical; in the first days, the highest priority is to look for a victim who is perhaps injured or ill. They're looking for great big objects, like whole victim or things that are obviously the victim's belongings. Time is of the essence. For instance, what if Sierra had been hit by a car on her way to the bus stop, hit her head and wandered off in a daze before collapsing.

Once it is clear that there is no living but injured victim in the vicinity, then it's time to go back and search again. This time, looking for any tiny thing that may be out of place (like used condoms).

As time goes on, some things that may have been out of sight get pushed into sight by the growth of vegetation, etc. So it's time to go back yet again and see if there is anything that was missed the first two times.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Exactly.
So why the rush to try to link it to this case?

Who's idea was that?
:banghead:

Because it is titillating and it could be related. No reporter wants to have information like that, hold on for further confirmation and then get scooped by a rival.

And it may also be motivated by sympathy for Sierra and/or her family. Any publicity can only help and the more angles the media can cover, the longer they can keep spinning the story out.

 

[OldSteve]

I see it reported they found 2 used condoms... also it's 1.5 miles from where her phone was found... also "Cardoza said they will not know until further testing whether the items were overlooked in earlier searches or had been recently placed there."
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...ew-evidence-found-in-search-for-sierra-lamar/

 

[KHpsych]

http://m.nbcbayarea.com/nbcbayarea/pm_111931/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=2uW7yWGv

According to this article, the area in which the items were found had been searched before.

 

[OldSteve]

This article says the area had been searched 5 times before!
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...ew-evidence-found-in-search-for-sierra-lamar/

 

[JDB]

IMO it does not mean a hill of Beans how the condoms was worded in the media. The main thing is the story is not dying out here in the Bay Area and because of that fact people are showing up and helping in the serach of the Missing 15 year old Girl named Sierra.
That right now is all that matters.:truce:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Okay. I do believe that you mean that the condoms and handcuff box were found at the end of PALM RD.

As per MSM, the handuff box and condoms were found at the end of Palm Rd. Here is a screenshot from my map linked last night.

This is a screenshot of the Palm Road Dead End., west of Saint Theresa, where it has been listed as the items found.

Is this correct then?

2 Locations.

House/Buildings Searched - 236 Scheller (3rd St.)

Handcuff Box and 2 Condoms Located - Dead End of Palm Rd.

Dead End of Palm Road:

If you are correct about the dead end of Palm Road, then judging from the pic, it does look like a good place to party if you're young and don't have your own place.

Not that I frequented such places in my younger days. I had a very private place to go parking on a dead end road that was well hidden by trees and never patrolled.

 

[Sjsleuth83]

Any thoughts on the condoms IF they are connected?

My big questions:

1)TWO used condoms? Why 2, maybe 2 perps?
2)Was the box there before, or just recently?
IF it is connected and it wasn't their before, this perp might want to be caught, or enjoys taunting LE.
3)Did the perp(s) put them in box with the attention of taking them from the scene and disposing of them, but then forgot them?
4)This could be a potential crime scene, and not just the spot where the box was placed. What other evidence was found at this spot, if any?


This are all the big questions for me, but im highly doubting this finding is related to the case, or atleast is from the perp.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Its been two weeks. Just making a guess but I don't believe she is in the area. They may have to start looking south. Way south. Possibly towards Phoenix AZ. About 12 hours away. I5South to I10East.
​

 

[GrainneDhu]

Did they say they were actually used? I don't recall. I don't think they would know unless they have already done forensics on them.

I kinda feel a bit of the *advertiser censored* of Babylon-ish here because I feel like the only poster who sowed wild oats in her misspent youth.

But <ahem> it's pretty easy to tell if a condom has been used or not. Just by looking at it with the naked eye. Or, if you're doubtful, by giving it a sniff.

Sure, it may have been a prank and filled with a substance that resembles ejaculate but given the location, my hunch is they are really used condoms. But not in any way connected with Sierra's disappearance.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Any thoughts on the condoms IF they are connected?

My big questions:

1)TWO used condoms? Why 2, maybe 2 perps?
2)Was the box there before, or just recently?
IF it is connected and it wasn't their before, this perp might want to be caught, or enjoys taunting LE.
3)Did the perp(s) put them in box with the attention of taking them from the scene and disposing of them, but then forgot them?
4)This could be a potential crime scene, and not just the spot where the box was placed. What other evidence was found at this spot, if any?


This are all the big questions for me, but im highly doubting this finding is related to the case, or atleast is from the perp.

My first impression I got when I heard about this was that
some RSO decided to have some fun and drop the condoms in the area around where she became missing so they could go home and wait and then watch the report about it. Some sort of sick excitement. I don't think there related to the case. Just MOO.

 

[liz b.]

Sometimes these guys get off on the media attention.

I don't think that is the case here though.

No, I do not think he is doing these particular things for media attention. MOO

If the latest finds are related, I feel that he is telling us,in sequence, what happened to Sierra. And, he feels powerful and confident enough right now to do this... MOO

I would think he is enjoying being able to fool LE...( or so he might think ). I also do not think he is at all panicky or disorganized. Very dangerous, if so...MOO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

O/T...But... I know I am in the midst of some very experienced sleuthers. I am looking for a book that may provide information regarding general principles, checklists, etc. about how to organize my thoughts while investigating.
In other words...I am looking for a book for "Sleuthing 101"..or "Sleuthing for Dummies".
Does anyone have suggestions?
If I should not post this on this thread, mods please let me know.
And if we can't share this type of information on the thread..would someone maybe PM me with suggestions?
TIA
Signed, IHAVENOCLUE...but want some!:seeya:

 

[90Nine]

IMO it does not mean a hill of Beans how the condoms was worded in the media. The main thing is the story is not dying out here in the Bay Area and because of that fact people are showing up and helping in the serach of the Missing 15 year old Girl named Sierra.
That right now is all that matters.:truce:

Absolutely!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I kinda feel a bit of the *advertiser censored* of Babylon-ish here because I feel like the only poster who sowed wild oats in her misspent youth.

But <ahem> it's pretty easy to tell if a condom has been used or not. Just by looking at it with the naked eye. Or, if you're doubtful, by giving it a sniff.

Sure, it may have been a prank and filled with a substance that resembles ejaculate but given the location, my hunch is they are really used condoms. But not in any way connected with Sierra's disappearance.

Hey GrainneDhu,
You crack me up. I am glad you explained this. I was trying to put it into polite, acceptable terms, too.
It is sort of like a sock that has been worn, stretched out, has odor, and will never go back to its original shape.:seeya:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Any thoughts on the condoms IF they are connected?

My big questions:

1)TWO used condoms? Why 2, maybe 2 perps?
2)Was the box there before, or just recently?
IF it is connected and it wasn't their before, this perp might want to be caught, or enjoys taunting LE.
3)Did the perp(s) put them in box with the attention of taking them from the scene and disposing of them, but then forgot them?
4)This could be a potential crime scene, and not just the spot where the box was placed. What other evidence was found at this spot, if any?

This are all the big questions for me, but im highly doubting this finding is related to the case, or atleast is from the perp.

1) Two condoms could indicate 2 perps or it could indicate 1 perp with, uh, repeating power.

I doubt they are connected. I think it much more likely that there's a couple or two couples in the area who are practising safe sex--good for them!

2) No way to know how long the box was out there without knowing exactly what type of search(es) were conducted previously and without forensics.

If it is connected, I would guess that the handcuffs came in the box and the perpetrator just threw the box on the ground after getting them out.

I highly doubt they're connected, though.

3) The condoms were not found in the box, they were found on the ground nearby.

4) Unless a reporter gets lucky, the only way to know the answer to this question is if LE releases the info. Or if LE puts up the yellow tape and the big evidence van rolls up in front of the ghods, the media and everyone.

 

[90Nine]

I kinda feel a bit of the *advertiser censored* of Babylon-ish here because I feel like the only poster who sowed wild oats in her misspent youth.

But <ahem> it's pretty easy to tell if a condom has been used or not. Just by looking at it with the naked eye. Or, if you're doubtful, by giving it a sniff.

Sure, it may have been a prank and filled with a substance that resembles ejaculate but given the location, my hunch is they are really used condoms. But not in any way connected with Sierra's disappearance.

Okay - I hear everyone. They were used condoms!

No need to tell me again.

Everyone has missed my point. But that's okay. Let's continue sleuthing