Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[news.talk]

I think this is quite possible. I, myself am quite open minded about a second person being involved even though LE says not (maybe to not create panic to the public, but let the family know they could be surveilling someone else on the down low). I try to put it out of my head, but something nags me that DG might've had help somewhere along the line…But the loner theory works also, and makes perfect sense also.

Also the man interviewed in the paper who got to go in the house while movers where there stated they were cleaning the walls, I got the impression he didn't go snoop around their bedroom and he probably was in view of a wall in a common area close to the entrance (living room), so it's possible one person might've met their demise there as you say.

ETA - I just read OutOfTheDArkness has same question/comment about the man in article/living room

I look to the fact that DG has a habit of shirking responsibility and if there was even a remote chance that another person was involved, he would have sang like a canary to deflect responsibility. Additionally, I cannot see LE sitting on something that could add reasonable doubt like another suspect. If they were suspicious that another person was involved, they would be focusing a large part of their investigation towards seeking information - part of that would include asking for the public's help.

 

[otto]

I didn't think they were all in collusion to "railroad" and innocent man, perhaps they have his cooperation? Doesn't anyone on this site watch TV? (I actually don't but I've seen/heard enough snippets here and there to get the idea of things that go on out there). There's a huge concern re: television shows nowadays, and movies, and music being in some regards a huge negative factor on people, particularly the youth in the world today. Is it that inconceivable that perhaps this is not what it seems?

Are we so naïve and/or narrow-minded to believe everything that we hear without questioning it? All of the above people are absolutely capable, and likely quite within their positions in our Federal/Provincial and Municipal systems and the law to use the next 30 days to proceed with the investigation as they see fit in order to get this crime solved. l don't understand why the possibility of this is so difficult to fathom? Because it would in our opinion, unethical? May I remind you of our recently resigned Premier?She held the highest government position in the Province, and look what she got away with. I don't think there were very many people in this Province that suspected her of being crooked and perhaps being involved in fraudulent use of taxpayers money....but look what happened there...and it continues...the deeper they dig, the more they find...and she present

I am in no way suggesting that our LE agencies/departments are being unethical/negligent or anything else derogatory...I'm simply suggesting that maybe, just maybe they have come up with a bit of a twist on investigative procedures. The fact is...no one except LE know what there is for evidence...so there was blood? An awful lot of blood can come from a bleeding nose...so there were drag marks...they've never confirmed the substance was blood, so DG drove his truck in the neighborhood...maybe he was interested in the garage sale, so they put tents up at the acreage...it was pretty hot out while they were searching...the fact is for sure...that no one but they know what is going on here...

"Never judge a book by its cover"..."looks can be deceiving"..."things aren't always as they seem"... "there's more to things than meet the eye"....

and, it can also be said...

"if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...chances are....

Only time will tell. Until then, I don't think we should be so quick to judge anything...until we know for sure because absolutely anything is possible.

BBM

TV is entertainment, which is different from criminal investigations. There is no conspiracy in this murder investigation. Investigators have been very transparent in their investigation, communicating regularly with the community about the progress of the investigation to the logical conclusion of arrest, and charges of first and second degree murder. The next stage of this investigation is preparation for trial. That's where we are today. During trial, the evidence will be presented in court, and reported to the community.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I think someone was actually asking you for some case examples of where LE, the coroner, and the Crown all teamed up to falsify some charges against one person, to smoke out the "real story" or the "real criminals". Precedent was the wrong word to use.

Please give us some real life examples of the conspiracy bait and switch law enforcement tactic.

Thank you OutofTheDarkness, yes, I realize what I was being asked and I have answered the question. I don't have any. Sorry. Just some possible "what if's"....looking at all the angles, leaving no stone unturned...

 

[otto]

I look to the fact that DG has a habit of shirking responsibility and if there was even a remote chance that another person was involved, he would have sang like a canary to deflect responsibility. Additionally, I cannot see LE sitting on something that could add reasonable doubt like another suspect. If they were suspicious that another person was involved, they would be focusing a large part of their investigation towards seeking information - part of that would include asking for the public's help.

The accused has been charged with planning and deliberately murdering two members of the Liknes family, and second degree murder for the death of a member of the O'Brien family. If there was any chance that there was another person targeting those families, police would be extremely irresponsible if they were pretending that there wasn't a second suspect. Instead, they have clearly stated that there are no other suspects.

 

[news.talk]

I didn't think they were all in collusion to "railroad" and innocent man, perhaps they have his cooperation? Doesn't anyone on this site watch TV? (I actually don't but I've seen/heard enough snippets here and there to get the idea of things that go on out there). There's a huge concern re: television shows nowadays, and movies, and music being in some regards a huge negative factor on people, particularly the youth in the world today. Is it that inconceivable that perhaps this is not what it seems?

Are we so naïve and/or narrow-minded to believe everything that we hear without questioning it? All of the above people are absolutely capable, and likely quite within their positions in our Federal/Provincial and Municipal systems and the law to use the next 30 days to proceed with the investigation as they see fit in order to get this crime solved. l don't understand why the possibility of this is so difficult to fathom? Because it would in our opinion, unethical? May I remind you of our recently resigned Premier?She held the highest government position in the Province, and look what she got away with. I don't think there were very many people in this Province that suspected her of being crooked and perhaps being involved in fraudulent use of taxpayers money....but look what happened there...and it continues...the deeper they dig, the more they find...and she present

I am in no way suggesting that our LE agencies/departments are being unethical/negligent or anything else derogatory...I'm simply suggesting that maybe, just maybe they have come up with a bit of a twist on investigative procedures. The fact is...no one except LE know what there is for evidence...so there was blood? An awful lot of blood can come from a bleeding nose...so there were drag marks...they've never confirmed the substance was blood, so DG drove his truck in the neighborhood...maybe he was interested in the garage sale, so they put tents up at the acreage...it was pretty hot out while they were searching...the fact is for sure...that no one but they know what is going on here...

"Never judge a book by its cover"..."looks can be deceiving"..."things aren't always as they seem"... "there's more to things than meet the eye"....

and, it can also be said...

"if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...chances are....

Only time will tell. Until then, I don't think we should be so quick to judge anything...until we know for sure because absolutely anything is possible.

I am baffled - Are you suggesting that real life parallels tv shows? That we should know by watching The Shield, for example, that there are dirty cops out there falsifying evidence?? [emoji33]

There was more than likely other human remains present such as tissue or brain matter which is not indicative of a bloody nose. Our ME is not a compete moron.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I didn't think they were all in collusion to "railroad" and innocent man, perhaps they have his cooperation? Doesn't anyone on this site watch TV? (I actually don't but I've seen/heard enough snippets here and there to get the idea of things that go on out there). There's a huge concern re: television shows nowadays, and movies, and music being in some regards a huge negative factor on people, particularly the youth in the world today. Is it that inconceivable that perhaps this is not what it seems?

Are we so naïve and/or narrow-minded to believe everything that we hear without questioning it? All of the above people are absolutely capable, and likely quite within their positions in our Federal/Provincial and Municipal systems and the law to use the next 30 days to proceed with the investigation as they see fit in order to get this crime solved. l don't understand why the possibility of this is so difficult to fathom? Because it would in our opinion, unethical? May I remind you of our recently resigned Premier?She held the highest government position in the Province, and look what she got away with. I don't think there were very many people in this Province that suspected her of being crooked and perhaps being involved in fraudulent use of taxpayers money....but look what happened there...and it continues...the deeper they dig, the more they find...and she present

I am in no way suggesting that our LE agencies/departments are being unethical/negligent or anything else derogatory...I'm simply suggesting that maybe, just maybe they have come up with a bit of a twist on investigative procedures. The fact is...no one except LE know what there is for evidence...so there was blood? An awful lot of blood can come from a bleeding nose...so there were drag marks...they've never confirmed the substance was blood, so DG drove his truck in the neighborhood...maybe he was interested in the garage sale, so they put tents up at the acreage...it was pretty hot out while they were searching...the fact is for sure...that no one but they know what is going on here...

"Never judge a book by its cover"..."looks can be deceiving"..."things aren't always as they seem"... "there's more to things than meet the eye"....

and, it can also be said...

"if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...chances are....

Only time will tell. Until then, I don't think we should be so quick to judge anything...until we know for sure because absolutely anything is possible.

I posted a link earlier regarding a potentially wrongfully accused person suing LE after the charges against him were stayed. The risk is huge, especially in this case, if they were to willy nilly charge someone with 3 counts of murder, and have it later proven that it was a ploy to smoke someone else out. All involved could possibly face criminal charges themselves for doing so.

The Political realm and the Legal realm have completely different levels and mechanisms of accountability. It doesn't work to compare some inappropriate spending to charging someone falsely with 3 counts of murder.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I look to the fact that DG has a habit of shirking responsibility and if there was even a remote chance that another person was involved, he would have sang like a canary to deflect responsibility. Additionally, I cannot see LE sitting on something that could add reasonable doubt like another suspect. If they were suspicious that another person was involved, they would be focusing a large part of their investigation towards seeking information - part of that would include asking for the public's help.

I know... for the most part - my logical brain says of course he was alone. I'm just trying to stay open minded though in this big, crazy world we live where I'm *still* shocked by stories I hear and the things that happen. It is all about facts for sure, but I've always been better at the creative arts and using my imagination and thinking outside the box as opposed to the math and science-like thought process of 'proving things' lol!

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

The accused has been charged with planning and deliberately murdering two members of the Liknes family, and second degree murder for the death of a member of the O'Brien family. If there was any chance that there was another person targeting those families, police would be extremely irresponsible if they were pretending that there wasn't a second suspect. Instead, they have clearly stated that there are no other suspects.

Perhaps at the time of the statement, there were no other suspects... We can't be too closed minded that things couldn't change. I would love to know what LE's theory is on motive.

 

[Krystine]

I look to the fact that DG has a habit of shirking responsibility and if there was even a remote chance that another person was involved, he would have sang like a canary to deflect responsibility. Additionally, I cannot see LE sitting on something that could add reasonable doubt like another suspect. If they were suspicious that another person was involved, they would be focusing a large part of their investigation towards seeking information - part of that would include asking for the public's help.

DG defended himself against Canada Revenue Agency and won the right to collect Employment Insurance in spite of using a false identity. He is smart enough not to 'sing'... I don't get the sense he is co-operating with LE. To try to deflect responsibility and name an accomplice would admit he had something to do with this. I think he is leaving the onus on the prosecution to prove he did this, while plotting for a stay of proceedings as per: Travis Vader in the McCann case, where no bodies were found.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I look to the fact that DG has a habit of shirking responsibility and if there was even a remote chance that another person was involved, he would have sang like a canary to deflect responsibility. Additionally, I cannot see LE sitting on something that could add reasonable doubt like another suspect. If they were suspicious that another person was involved, they would be focusing a large part of their investigation towards seeking information - part of that would include asking for the public's help.

Not necessarily, especially if LE has enough information to focus an investigation. Disclosing anything to the public could, in theory, compromise the investigation.

 

[otto]

Perhaps at the time of the statement, there were no other suspects... We can't be too closed minded that things couldn't change. I would love to know what LE's theory is on motive.

There's a reason that police are in Mexico to investigate the condo that is jointly owned by Liknes/Garland, and I'm pretty sure that it has nothing to do with looking for people that are confirmed dead.

If we accept that investigators, medical examiner, and prosecutors are doing their jobs, then accepting their statements is not "closed minded", it is taking what is said by qualified professionals at face value. Doubting their statements is along the lines of assuming that either they are bumbling fools, or into head games. The chief of police doesn't really strike me as that sort of person.

 

[Krystine]

So that was a no, you don't have a real life example.

A group of people conspiring to keep themselves out of serious legal trouble, which happens regularly in all walks of life, is nothing like the "charge someone to smoke out the people faking their deaths" theory.

And just so no one feels argued with, what I am doing is asking for some sort of proof or logic that this theory is remotely plausible. I will happily say "you have a point there" if you can offer something other than "anything is possible"... That is not Sleuthing.

The question of supplying a precedent was asked of Tinkerbell1, and not Carli,... by sillybilly

 

[studyer]

"if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...chances are....

Right. And this duck looks like a LE team that is confident in the charges, not wavering from its original statements one bit, and a swift, massive and intensive investigation involving hundreds of individuals in various areas of LE. It doesn't even remotely look like anything else.

 

[news.talk]

There is plenty of wild speculation going on here very recently- hence my comment.

I am sticking with the theory that it was the Petroleum Mafia on orders from aliens. [emoji12]

 

[ResearchQuest]

I would like to get back to sleuthing.

I think LE is doing a good job. I'm impressed they're going to Mexico. It really does show they meant when they said they would "leave no stone unturned." The Mexican trip, and whatever evidence and information comes out of it, will be valuable when the case goes to court. Because, if they hadn't gone to Mexico, certainly that would have been brought up.

As there are LE and law professionals on this site, I wonder if there are any similar historical cases that used out-of-country evidence?

I don't know what LE is looking for in Mexico, but whatever it is (if they even find anything), the effort they're making is obviously worth it, or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[ResearchQuest]

And it's too bad there aren't any Websleuths in Mazatlan. Or are there?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I am sticking with the theory that it was the Petroleum Mafia on orders from aliens. [emoji12]

 

[peony27]

Been out of the loop as I was on vacation and other busy things. It is so disheartening that they haven't found them.

 

[Linike]

Which is why I haven't done to much responding... At first I was very impressed with this forum because it seemed there were very mature, intellectual people commenting and discussing. I feel it is now heading more into arguing. (Maybe because we are all so frustrated with the lack of info...). I do believe the LE are doing their job and doin it well. I have faith that they have the right guy and have the evidence to prove the charges brought against him.

I couldn't agree more - in the past 24 hours.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

BBM

TV is entertainment, which is different from criminal investigations. There is no conspiracy in this murder investigation. Investigators have been very transparent in their investigation, communicating regularly with the community about the progress of the investigation to the logical conclusion of arrest, and charges of first and second degree murder. The next stage of this investigation is preparation for trial. That's where we are today. During trial, the evidence will be presented in court, and reported to the community.

What does BBM mean?

There are some very creative criminal investigations on TV Otto! They are intriguing and many of them are a stroke of genius. Have you ever spoken with an undercover officer? My gosh they come up with some really creative things!
Thank you for relaying the facts Otto...I can see they are very black and white and final!
I'm not trying to sway your point of view, I'm not interested in swaying anyone's point of view, nor am I interested or attached to being right. What is important to me is that justice is served and that whomever is convicted of this crime has a fair trial and that all the bases have been covered without a shadow of a doubt.
I would like to know what really happened that night, just like everyone else and I would like to know where these 3 people are so that their families can have closure in this situation.
It will be a very interesting trial.