Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

[goodasgold]

little footprints. we keep thinking adults thru this sleuthing but there was the little guy who might have left little footprints at dg's.

What made you think of this? Is this regarding what might have tied DG to the crime?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

little footprints. we keep thinking adults thru this sleuthing but there was the little guy who might have left little footprints at dg's.

Oh! Excellent point! That's right, he may have still been alive after his grandparents!

 

[LoisLane]

little footprints. we keep thinking adults thru this sleuthing but there was the little guy who might have left little footprints at dg's.

Do you think it could be possible NO was passed on to someone for hiding?

 

[LoisLane]

This is dated August 12th.

http://codeambernews.blogspot.ca/2014/08/amber-alert-nathan-o.html

It does not seem like a reliable source.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Oh! Excellent point! That's right, he may have still been alive after his grandparents!

As has been discussed endlessly, if LE could prove NO left the house alive, that would have likely lead to a 3rd charge of 1st degree murder, instead of 2nd degree.

Is it possible NO was handed off to someone else? Anything is possible, but then what would the evidence be to lead to a charge of 2nd degree murder? There must be enough evidence to reasonably believe NO is no longer alive, otherwise I highly doubt they would lay that charge.

Sorry to be the voice of logic, and to dash hopes... but that is the ugly reality.

 

[stan laurel]

I don't think he is with anyone, but there is a chance he was on foot if at DG's and it would be unlikely that other young ones were there prior.

I was also looking at the younger pics of DG and then the pic on his return from hiding and his pics now. The first pics make him out as full of face (maybe a pudgy sort). His return pics make him seem really thin, and his now pics have him svelt, and in shape but his face is defined. My guess is he continued an indulgence in amphetamines while on the lam.

A friend some years back fell into heavy meth use all the whilst maintaining his career,, he was always full of face but lost much of his roundness to the drug. Even years after being clean of it, he still has those defined cheekbones.

 

[stan laurel]

What made you think of this? Is this regarding what might have tied DG to the crime?

I find when I camp, I have the clearest thoughts. Last night as I lay thinking, I thought about the boy who has become both lost and tangled in the lives of the older victims and the accused. I then thought of that vile crime with Tori Stafford and how gal walked her for a bit before killing her. Being that I spend a good chunk of time out in the woods, I notice things - like - footprints probably months old. It was rainy in the week proceeding the crime so there would be a good likelihood that small prints were preserved,, they don't wash away as quickly as most would think. Even footprints in snow after a Chinook are maintained quite well.

 

[deugirtni]

Sorry if this has already been posted a long time ago, but I came across it today when I was looking for the other kijiji ads before the link was reposted; note that it is a different phone number/poster. I think the other ads just fall off as they expire, and it does seem that the ads were created on different days.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-community-other/calgary/parkhill-estate-sale-attendees/1003537813

 

[stan laurel]

other thoughts I had last night were about truck canopies,, some cover the bed of the truck and others are like small trailer boxes that can be slotted out (removed) quite quickly. We've only been privy to the one truck pic, and the more I look at it, the more I think that he rhino-hided it (had the inner box sprayed with a latex coating).

 

[Tinkerbel1]

As has been discussed endlessly, if LE could prove NO left the house alive, that would have likely lead to a 3rd charge of 1st degree murder, instead of 2nd degree.

Is it possible NO was handed off to someone else? Anything is possible, but then what would the evidence be to lead to a charge of 2nd degree murder? There must be enough evidence to reasonably believe NO is no longer alive, otherwise I highly doubt they would lay that charge.

Sorry to be the voice of logic, and to dash hopes... but that is the ugly reality.

Thank you for your explanation Outofthedarkness and for being a voice of logic. There are a few of you that I'm grateful to for pulling those of us that see things through rose-coloured glasses back to reality

I wasn't having false hope...I was merely thanking someone (Stan Laurel) for reminding me that NO was likely alive after his grandparents were murdered, long enough to perhaps make little footprints for evidence. Could be LE has this proof in this ugly situation.

 

[deugirtni]

You're right, it does not seem like a reliable source. It seems that every entry is dated today, it must be auto set to be whatever date it is on the day a person views it? My internet is pathetic and it has a difficult time with this site (the one noted below), which usually indicates lots of pests to stay away from.

This is dated August 12th.

http://codeambernews.blogspot.ca/2014/08/amber-alert-nathan-o.html

It does not seem like a reliable source.

 

[LoisLane]

Here is the recent Global Calgary coverage:
http://globalnews.ca/video/1503580/search-for-missing-calgary-family-continues

 

[deugirtni]

Personally, I just don't think that logistically and realistically, DG had time to do all of what he had to do in the span of time that we know to be exact, ie between 10pm and 10am, and especially considering that it is unlikely he would have done it in daylight, too much potential for getting caught. If he was acting as one person, which, from the sounds of what info we have been able to gather regarding DG, is highly likely, how could he have possibly done all of that within such a short span... time really does fly when.. you're busy, you know?

 

[deugirtni]

A lot more of 'nothing'. News report says LE has been questioning DG rather regularly, meanwhile DG's lawyer says 'a couple of times'. They don't even have disclosure yet, and so here is the guy (DG) being hung by the public as guilty, and he and his lawyer do not even know what evidence all of these accusations are based on yet? Sure glad it's not me that had a spat with AL 7 years ago and also has a green truck (which green truck may or may not have any bearing whatsoever on this case at all, it just happened to be seen in videos... over what span of time I'm not sure).

Here is the recent Global Calgary coverage:
http://globalnews.ca/video/1503580/search-for-missing-calgary-family-continues

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Personally, I just don't think that logistically and realistically, DG had time to do all of what he had to do in the span of time that we know to be exact, ie between 10pm and 10am, and especially knowing that it is unlikely he would have done it in daylight, too much potential for getting caught. If he was acting as one person, which, from the sounds of what info we have been able to gather regarding DG, is highly likely, how could he have possibly done all of that within such a short span... time really does fly when.. you're busy, you know?

Grab a heavy object near you and swing it hard 5 times. How long did that take? 20 seconds? 30 seconds? Times 3 is a minute or two, leaving 10 hours or so to clean up. Were it a prolonged act, it would be more likely someone would've made a noise, phone call, or something to attract attention. There was plenty of time. Even if it took 30 minutes to transport each victim to a vehicle, which is exaggerated, then we are still only at about 2 hours.

 

[winnnancy]

other thoughts I had last night were about truck canopies,, some cover the bed of the truck and others are like small trailer boxes that can be slotted out (removed) quite quickly. We've only been privy to the one truck pic, and the more I look at it, the more I think that he rhino-hided it (had the inner box sprayed with a latex coating).

The spray box liner is significantly more expensive than the cheaper moulded one....

 

[sublimemumma]

Personally, I just don't think that logistically and realistically, DG had time to do all of what he had to do in the span of time that we know to be exact, ie between 10pm and 10am, and especially considering that it is unlikely he would have done it in daylight, too much potential for getting caught. If he was acting as one person, which, from the sounds of what info we have been able to gather regarding DG, is highly likely, how could he have possibly done all of that within such a short span... time really does fly when.. you're busy, you know?

Does anyone know normally when they disclose the evidence to the defence team? Is this normal to still be waiting on it two days before court?

 

[deugirtni]

Well, I dont' know if I was DG, waiting in the darkness for the last person to leave the home before I went in to do my business, if I would just go in right away as soon as JO left. Secondly, where were the victims located in the house? Did DG just have a premonition about that and boldly go directly to those 3 spots? Who says all 3 victims were in the same place? I'm still also not convinced that he could drag the dead weights to his waiting vehicle, nevermind lift them into the.... back of the truck? Is that where people think he transported the bodies? So.... if he transported the bodies in the truck back thingy, then obviously he would have covered them? Is there a cover showing in that photo in which the truck was captured on video? Then... isn't there talk about 'cleaning up'? With a hose? But no cleaning inside? And... if LE had obtained evidence from the truck in regard to DNA, which absolutely would have been present, wouldn't they have happily reported this to MSM? But no smoking gun, they said, which that *would* have been. And then they also took AL's truck for examination? Why do that if they already had their truck? To me, that leads me to believe there is another truck out there WITH the DNA in it, but it isn't one of those 2 trucks.
All MOO, but to me, it makes so much more sense with all of this closing business/bankruptcy of the business/moving thing happening, the they (AL and KL) were specifically targeted by a group (more than one person), who just swept in, did the deed, and got out.. only perhaps being seen ONCE on that video, or not even at all, considering they could have traveled in another direction? Isn't that possible?
I just don't get why the public is so eager to hang DG with so little reported evidence.
I don't put all my faith in LE, any LE, because I have read about too many times when they were wrong, and yet they still want to proceed only with the one avenue, rather than think about allllllll the other possibilities. One case like that which comes to mind is the Audrey Gleaves case, where LE thought they had their man in DS, who was charged with murder, incarcerated, and then after months in jail, the judge said not enough evidence.. and LE was apparently, reportedly devastated with this ruling. So now the case sits unsolved, instead of LE putting on better thinking caps. Kind of like Guy Morin too. They were SO SURE it was him, but it was not. And so the murder remains unsolved to this day.
I am not a bleeding heart, I would in fact like to see at least some criminals receive the death penalty in Canada. I just would like to hear some better evidence against DG in this case. Sometimes in my own mind, it just seems like the evidence LE has broadcast is too good to be true.. ie a green truck seen a few times, (when exactly?), belongs to a family member with a 7 year old grudge who happens to be a loner and a previous criminal. So where is the evidence then, after spending weeks searching his truck and his property?

Grab a heavy object near you and swing it hard 5 times. How long did that take? 20 seconds? 30 seconds? Times 3 is a minute or two, leaving 10 hours or so to clean up. Were it a prolonged act, it would be more likely someone would've made a noise, phone call, or something to attract attention. There was plenty of time. Even if it took 30 minutes to transport each victim to a vehicle, which is exaggerated, then we are still only at about 2 hours.

 

[stan laurel]

Personally, I just don't think that logistically and realistically, DG had time to do all of what he had to do in the span of time that we know to be exact, ie between 10pm and 10am, and especially considering that it is unlikely he would have done it in daylight, too much potential for getting caught. If he was acting as one person, which, from the sounds of what info we have been able to gather regarding DG, is highly likely, how could he have possibly done all of that within such a short span... time really does fly when.. you're busy, you know?

Though that's the time frame between drop off of NO and pick-up, it's only about 4.5 hours of decent darkness. So, though 12 hours was a timeframe, 4.5 hours was the working frame.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Well, I dont' know if I was DG, waiting in the darkness for the last person to leave the home before I went in to do my business, if I would just go in right away as soon as JO left. Secondly, where were the victims located in the house? Did DG just have a premonition about that and boldly go directly to those 3 spots? Who says all 3 victims were in the same place? I'm still also not convinced that he could drag the dead weights to his waiting vehicle, nevermind lift them into the.... back of the truck? Is that where people think he transported the bodies? So.... if he transported the bodies in the truck back thingy, then obviously he would have covered them? Is there a cover showing in that photo in which the truck was captured on video? Then... isn't there talk about 'cleaning up'? With a hose? But no cleaning inside? And... if LE had obtained evidence from the truck in regard to DNA, which absolutely would have been present, wouldn't they have happily reported this to MSM? But no smoking gun, they said, which that *would* have been. And then they also took AL's truck for examination? Why do that if they already had their truck? To me, that leads me to believe there is another truck out there WITH the DNA in it, but it isn't one of those 2 trucks.
All MOO, but to me, it makes so much more sense with all of this closing business/bankruptcy of the business/moving thing happening, the they (AL and KL) were specifically targeted by a group (more than one person), who just swept in, did the deed, and got out.. only perhaps being seen ONCE on that video, or not even at all, considering they could have traveled in another direction? Isn't that possible?
I just don't get why the public is so eager to hang DG with so little reported evidence.
I don't put all my faith in LE, any LE, because I have read about too many times when they were wrong, and yet they still want to proceed only with the one avenue, rather than think about allllllll the other possibilities. One case like that which comes to mind is the Audrey Gleaves case, where LE thought they had their man in DS, who was charged with murder, incarcerated, and then after months in jail, the judge said not enough evidence.. and LE was apparently, reportedly devastated with this ruling. So now the case sits unsolved, instead of LE putting on better thinking caps. Kind of like Guy Morin too. They were SO SURE it was him, but it was not. And so the murder remains unsolved to this day.
I am not a bleeding heart, I would in fact like to see at least some criminals receive the death penalty in Canada. I just would like to hear some better evidence against DG in this case. Sometimes in my own mind, it just seems like the evidence LE has broadcast is too good to be true.. ie a green truck seen a few times, (when exactly?), belongs to a family member with a 7 year old grudge who happens to be a loner and a previous criminal. So where is the evidence then, after spending weeks searching his truck and his property?

Several women in this forum have tested, and/or stated that they could drag a 200 lb body, and it wasn't as tough as they thought. I can also personally confirm a healthy male can easily do it, even in one's 50’s. If you haven't ever tried, it's a stretch to make that claim, and if you have tried it, you'd have to be very small in stature, or have an injury or disability for it to be impossible.

LE is not obligated to release evidence details to the public. Given the complexity of the laws regarding the release of such details, LE is almost obligated NOT to release the details before trial. I'm not sold on the benefit to the public good that the secrecy apparently offers either, but LE cannot compromise the case just to satisfy a curiosity. Whether you know now, or a year from now, isn't as big a priority as ensuring the case can proceed.