Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[otto]

I was reading some interesting articles specific to Alberta and your imagination is not a far stretch on what LE/Prosecutor has done to arrest/charge/incarcerate someone, even innocent people.

What is the name of the prosecutor that acted unethically to arrest, charge, and incarcerate innocent people?
Without a name, or a case, I can only assume that the above claim is untrue.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

SMH. I don't understand your question. Why would they do what?

Why would the L's or O's get a fake Death Certificate...that is what you've accused me of suggesting, isn't it? What purpose would they have to do this? And who on earth would they give it to if they got one? No, no...any fake Death Certificate would not be obtained by any family members, that's just silly. IMO SMH & LOL

 

[otto]

There are some that have commented on this case that SHOULD be on the jury to ensure that there's a voice of reason and not a blind following as they have shown no definitive dedication to one theory or other which is highly commendable. (No offense to future jury members as I don't know who you are nor am I suggesting all would follow blindly.) If all jury members are as narrow-minded as some who have commented on this case, why bother with a trial? JMO

Chances are it will be Judge alone.

 

[news.talk]

Why would the L's or O's get a fake Death Certificate...that is what you've accused me of suggesting, isn't it? What purpose would they have to do this? And who on earth would they give it to if they got one? No, no...any fake Death Certificate would not be obtained by any family members, that's just silly. IMO SMH & LOL

I cannot answer your question as I never insinuated or suggested the family would. I asked for clarification on YOUR assertion. I have also posted the counter-forgery measures that AB has adopted to prevent such occurrences.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

What is the name of the prosecutor that acted unethically to arrest, charge, and incarcerate innocent people?
Without a name, or a case, I can only assume that the above claim is untrue.

There is not only likely LE and Prosecutor(s) that have acted unethically in Alberta, there's an ME in Calgary that did as well. I've posted a link to his activities a few days ago, you should read it, its quite interesting. Unbelievable, that someone in a position like that could do such things. That's the trouble here, we, as good people, assume that everyone is telling the truth...we accept things at face value a large part of the time...and, many of us are impressed with high positioned/titled people, dignitaries, people in power... so much so that we forget to look over their shoulders at what may be going on behind the scenes...that sort of blind faith in anyone, is truly a set-up for huge disappointment and betrayal. No one's fault but our own. JMO

 

[otto]

There is not only likely LE and Prosecutor(s) that have acted unethically in Alberta, there's an ME in Calgary that did as well. I've posted a link to his activities a few days ago, you should read it, its quite interesting. Unbelievable, that someone in a position like that could do such things. That's the trouble here, we, as good people, assume that everyone is telling the truth...we accept things at face value a large part of the time...and, many of us are impressed with high positioned/titled people, dignitaries, people in power... so much so that we forget to look over their shoulders at what may be going on behind the scenes...that sort of blind faith in anyone, is truly a set-up for huge disappointment and betrayal. No one's fault but our own. JMO

There was a problem with a medical examiner several years ago. I posted links to that early on in the case - nothing new, or applicable, there.

My question is very specific: What is the name of the prosecutor that was unethical and who put innocent people in jail?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I cannot answer your question as I never insinuated or suggested the family would. I asked for clarification on YOUR assertion. I have also posted the counter-forgery measures that AB has adopted to prevent such occurrences.

You clearly asked me if I was suggesting that the L's or O's would obtain a fake Death Certificate. No back-peddling now. I made no assertion. I asked a question. Regardless, obviously another moot point as so many others before this one. Clearly, if there are Death Certificates, they've obviously been signed by the appropriate party(s). Counter-forgery measures? Aren't there also 'counter-murder measures' as well? Obviously they're not observed. Just because there's a rule, bylaw or law...doesn't mean anything really, does it? MOO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

There was a problem with a medical examiner several years ago. I posted links to that early on in the case - nothing new, or applicable, there.

My question is very specific: What is the name of the prosecutor that was unethical and who put innocent people in jail?

I have no idea.

Mine was a parallel example. A point was being made. No one is perfect, no matter their position. If there's an article on this Prosecutor, written by one of Alberta's own reporters, it must be true.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Chances are it will be Judge alone.

I doubt that.

 

[news.talk]

You clearly asked me if I was suggesting that the L's or O's would obtain a fake Death Certificate. No back-peddling now. I made no assertion. I asked a question. Regardless, obviously another moot point as so many others before this one. Clearly, if there are Death Certificates, they've obviously been signed by the appropriate party(s). Counter-forgery measures? Aren't there also 'counter-murder measures' as well? Obviously they're not observed. Just because there's a rule, bylaw or law...doesn't mean anything really, does it? MOO

I'm sorry... I do not understand your reply. Counter-murder measures? Who is not following the rules or laws in this case? The victim's families? LE? Really SMH.

 

[Slebby]

I could clarify but there's really no point. The question was....'how hard is it to get a fake Death Certificate?' based on all the discussion re: the lack of proof that the ME declared them deceased. I have not accused anyone of doing so...that would be presumption on others' parts.

Can I imagine the degree of collusion? Yes, of course I can. Can you imagine the degree of precision and planning that DG would have had to have had to plan this murder and dispose of the bodies without a trace? Neither scenario is easy to swallow. However, I believe that all angles should be looked at. JMO

Yes, the question you asked was "how hard is it to get a fake Death a Certificate" and that generated the question, which basically , in a nutshell is, why do you ask?

You asked a question, within the context of a discussion about the process by which the death certificate would be issued for the victims in this case which we are discussing here on this forum, and it *appeared* that your response to an informative post about how death certificates are issued was dismissive of that informative post - like saying "sure, but how hard is it, really, to fake one of those things?" and said in a way that seemed suggestive that you distrust the validity of the death certificate issued in this case.

But - if I have that wrong, it would be helpful for my understanding if you would clarify, not what you didn't mean, but what you *did* mean. Do you trust the validity of the death certificates issued in this case (for AL, KL, and NO)? Were you questioning their validity?

That is all. Not a nefarious question. Not trying to trip you up. Definitely not trying to put words in your mouth. In fact the opposite, really.

You are free to believe or disbelieve anything. But words matter. And I think it's good to either stand by them or maybe sometimes say, meh, maybe I didn't think that through. IMO.

I hope we can clear this up. Thanks!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Does an open mind include the facts of the case that we have learned from police through media, or does keeping an open mind mean doubting the facts of the case that have been shared by police?

An open mind means both of the above.

 

[otto]

I have no idea.

Mine was a parallel example. A point was being made. No one is perfect, no matter their position. If there's an article on this Prosecutor, written by one of Alberta's own reporters, it must be true.

Is there some sort of problem with the prosecutor that is trying this case? If so, what is it?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Yes, the question you asked was "how hard is it to get a fake Death a Certificate" and that generated the question, which basically , in a nutshell is, why do you ask?

You asked a question, within the context of a discussion about the process by which the death certificate would be issued for the victims in this case which we are discussing here on this forum, and it *appeared* that your response to an informative post about how death certificates are issued was dismissive of that informative post - like saying "sure, but how hard is it, really, to fake one of those things?" and said in a way that seemed suggestive that you distrust the validity of the death certificate issued in this case.

But - if I have that wrong, it would be helpful for my understanding if you would clarify, not what you didn't mean, but what you *did* mean. Do you trust the validity of the death certificates issued in this case (for AL, KL, and NO)? Were you questioning their validity?

That is all. Not a nefarious question. Not trying to trip you up. Definitely not trying to put words in your mouth. In fact the opposite, really.

You are free to believe or disbelieve anything. But words matter. And I think it's good to either stand by them or maybe sometimes say, meh, maybe I didn't think that through. IMO.

I hope we can clear this up. Thanks!

Yes, I was saying..."How hard is it really to fake one of those things". Just like "how hard is it really to fake a drivers license, or a birth certificate or a passport". Assumption as to why I was asking the question and the route my thoughts were going are not yours to determine, as you have. Either, you can answer the question, or you can't. It's simple, but apparently not easy. JMO

 

[stan laurel]

Yes, the question you asked was "how hard is it to get a fake Death a Certificate" and that generated the question, which basically , in a nutshell is, why do you ask?

You asked a question, within the context of a discussion about the process by which the death certificate would be issued for the victims in this case which we are discussing here on this forum, and it *appeared* that your response to an informative post about how death certificates are issued was dismissive of that informative post - like saying "sure, but how hard is it, really, to fake one of those things?" and said in a way that seemed suggestive that you distrust the validity of the death certificate issued in this case.

But - if I have that wrong, it would be helpful for my understanding if you would clarify, not what you didn't mean, but what you *did* mean. Do you trust the validity of the death certificates issued in this case (for AL, KL, and NO)? Were you questioning their validity?

That is all. Not a nefarious question. Not trying to trip you up. Definitely not trying to put words in your mouth. In fact the opposite, really.

You are free to believe or disbelieve anything. But words matter. And I think it's good to either stand by them or maybe sometimes say, meh, maybe I didn't think that through. IMO.

I hope we can clear this up. Thanks!

maybe others missed it but I thought tink clarified why she asked, which was along the lines of a covert manner to flush out another. though, I wonder when the dc was issued ?(on a completely different train of thought)

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Is there some sort of problem with the prosecutor that is trying this case? If so, what is it?

Not that I know of. I'm not sure why you're asking me the question. I know nothing of any of this Prosecutor business...someone else found articles relating to it. I read it at approximately the same time as you did...so I have as much information as you do.

 

[otto]

An open mind means both of the above.

Refusing to accept the facts of the case is not about keeping an open mind. Conspiracy theorists refuse to accept known facts. For example, we know that terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the World Trade Center. Those are facts, but conspiracy theorists refuse to accept the facts and instead believe it was a US gov't plot.

 

[news.talk]

Yes, I was saying..."How hard is it really to fake one of those things". Just like "how hard is it really to fake a drivers license, or a birth certificate or a passport". Assumption as to why I was asking the question and the route my thoughts were going are not yours to determine, as you have. Either, you can answer the question, or you can't. It's simple, but apparently not easy. JMO

I will repost my reply in case you missed it. The answer to how hard is it? VERY hard.

Re: Forgery

Created by the Vital Statistics Council for Canada (VSCC) in conjunction with forensic document experts from the RCMP, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Canadian Passport Office, Canada Border Services Agency and the Canadian Bank Note Company Ltd., new Canadian birth and death certificates will be one of the most secure documents in the world. Introducing an array of cutting edge security features, including several that will not be revealed to the public, the new certificate is specifically designed to minimize identity theft, forgeries and loss.

As of July 30, 2010 eight provinces have adopted the new certificate:*Alberta,*British Columbia,Manitoba,*New Brunswick,*Newfoundland and Labrador,*Nova Scotia,*Prince Edward Island*andSaskatchewan.

What’s New?

The stock for the new documents are high security polymer (plastic). The new certificates are 13 cm by 18 cm in size (5”X7”). It is designed to discourage people from carrying it in their wallet or purse.

The certificates have:

Two window features:

– one contains a colour shifting property (gold/purple); the other contains three “floating” maple leaves

Two watermark/shadow features – maple leaves and Canada geese containing the word “CANADA” repeated. Tactile printing similar to that found on Canadian currency. Colour shifting printing, “CANADA” in three waves below the clear window containing the maple leaves (purple/green) Contains the provincial/territorial coat of arms in colour with the jurisdiction’s seal and a signature.

 

[otto]

Not that I know of. I'm not sure why you're asking me the question. I know nothing of any of this Prosecutor business...someone else found articles relating to it. I read it at approximately the same time as you did...so I have as much information as you do.

There is no reason to question the integrity of professionals that are investigating and trying this case.

 

[news.talk]

maybe others missed it but I thought tink clarified why she asked, which was along the lines of a covert manner to flush out another. though, I wonder when the dc was issued ?(on a completely different train of thought)

I highly doubt LE would put the family's through such a nefarious and brutal deception in lieu of actual police work.