Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

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LoisLane said:
I understand the procedure to filing complaints. I wonder if in the time of grief and anger if the family had the tools to figure that out. The media seemed to be the fastest and easiest option for them to be heard. Possibly they were afraid their complaint would be processed slowly if they had followed the procedure. I think the family did the right thing in light of events and in their time of grief.

I am glad that while in custody CC would have been recorded on camera that will be key in the investigation.
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I agree that many people are unsure if their complaints will be heard and question whether it will be swept under the rug. It is important however, that these types of accusations are investigated.

The media is an excellent tool for voicing concerns but it does little good if no one actually makes a complaint. LE needs to ensure their officers are not abusing authority, ensure that convictions will result and not be dismissed on a technicality, and that the law is being applied fairly. It is in their best interest to do so and that is why there are so many levels of scrutiny.
 
news.talk said:
I agree that many people are unsure if their complaints will be heard and question whether it will be swept under the rug. It is important however, that these types of accusations are investigated.

The media is an excellent tool for voicing concerns but it does little good if no one actually makes a complaint. LE needs to ensure their officers are not abusing authority, ensure that convictions will result and not be dismissed on a technicality, and that the law is being applied fairly. It is in their best interest to do so and that is why there are so many levels of scrutiny.
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I agree. The family of CC may have planned to file a formal complaint and fortunately the process was started before they may have pursued the next step.
 
Not to sound too macabre, but I definitely think freezers are high on the list for LE when searching for victims in a suspect's home. I always think of Jeffrey Dahmer when I hear freezers, gross.

I also think they know to search crawl spaces, attics, sheds, in the walls even if they have scent dogs, and probably look for disturbed earth on properties/back yards, I would think anywhere the warrant lets them. LE have probably seen it all in regards to hiding places, tough job boy...
 
Lalalacasbah said:
Not to sound too macabre, but I definitely think freezers are high on the list for LE when searching for victims in a suspect's home. I always think of Jeffrey Dahmer when I hear freezers, gross.

I also think they know to search crawl spaces, attics, sheds, in the walls even if they have scent dogs, and probably look for disturbed earth on properties/back yards, I would think anywhere the warrant lets them. LE have probably seen it all in regards to hiding places, tough job boy...
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They had Sully, the cadaver dog out at the Garland acreage. I would *hope* they use him regularly in missing person's cases - All he would have to do is enter the home when LE is over to interview family members and if he signaled, that would certainly be enough for a probable cause warrant. In the case of freezing victims, I wonder how effective he would be?
 
Lalalacasbah said:
Not to sound too macabre, but I definitely think freezers are high on the list for LE when searching for victims in a suspect's home. I always think of Jeffrey Dahmer when I hear freezers, gross.

I also think they know to search crawl spaces, attics, sheds, in the walls even if they have scent dogs, and probably look for disturbed earth on properties/back yards, I would think anywhere the warrant lets them. LE have probably seen it all in regards to hiding places, tough job boy...
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Yes, I think they would too if they had a suspect and a residence or crime scene. It is possible that any airtight container wherever it is concealed would not be picked up by a sniffer dog but maybe they can.

But why not search a missing person's residence 2 years ago in the LM case or in any case where a missing person has not come back to their home. It would fit in the list of anything out of the ordinary. IMO.

There was another case in Alberta where a person who was wanted was hiding in their own home for years and LE visited the place but the guy would just stay in the basement. The time and resources spent on certain avenues when the proof is right under their noses is mind boggling.

Anyway, I find it hard to understand the reasoning behind missed evidence entangled in the procedures and rules that a woman who was missing for 2 years was dead in her home the whole time.

I hope they have a lead soon in regards to NO, KL, and AL.
 
I'm not familiar at all with this case, but wasn't it the woman's family who reported her missing, and in that case, wouldn't LE be able to obtain a search warrant to search her home in that case, whether hubby liked it or not? Jeez I would hate to think my husband could chop me up and freeze me while going on to raise my children.. meanwhile my parents and family have put out a missing persons report on me.. and police not check my own home? If husband refused, I would hope LE would be able to obtain a search warrant? If not, that makes life kind of scary for women who might be married to abusive husbands? All he needs to do is say no you can't search our home.. and he gets away with murder?

news.talk said:
I would have to defer to more legally inclined minds, but would the police not require a search warrant to search a home without the consent from the owner? Additionally, if the owner refused, I would imagine they would require more probable cause for said warrant other than a refusal.

Do we have any information on where the remains were located in the home and in what state? If they were outside of the plain sight purview, even if officers were in the home, they would require a probable cause warrant for further investigation.

As we all know from the Liknes/O'Brien case, there needs to be *some* evidence for LE to investigate. Unless I am mistaken, there were not many leads or forensic evidence to suggest homicide other than their suspicions.
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deugirtni said:
I'm not familiar at all with this case, but wasn't it the woman's family who reported her missing, and in that case, wouldn't LE be able to obtain a search warrant to search her home in that case, whether hubby liked it or not? Jeez I would hate to think my husband could chop me up and freeze me while going on to raise my children.. meanwhile my parents and family have put out a missing persons report on me.. and police not check my own home? If husband refused, I would hope LE would be able to obtain a search warrant? If not, that makes life kind of scary for women who might be married to abusive husbands? All he needs to do is say no you can't search our home.. and he gets away with murder?
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I agree! I really don't know the proceedures regarding searching one's own home. As I mentioned uptrend, the CPS specifically, receives upwards of 3,300 missing persons reports per year. Two thirds are youth not wanting to be found. They must have *some* standards for searching the homes of the victims as a first measure. I would also think that if a spouse was uncooperative, it would sound alarms sooner than two years! Something is definitely off in this case.
 
lynck said:
I share this same opinion. I mean honestly, if you were prosecuting someone for 3 murders would you want to lay out all your evidence all over the media and internet for analysis? In today's day and age, you'd think it would help law enforcement, but by the same token it could also help the defense. Crowdsourced justice. Could be good or bad, but most likely end up bad once a few people lose their minds and turn into vigilante's. JMO
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I think it should be the same accountability regarding what accounts of evidence is revealed to the public whether it is one person murdered or five. If the evidence is presented to both the crown and defense it is not presented differently to them, it is what it is. I don't see why it would be a hinderance if it is helpful in outcomes for the defense or the crown. Law enforcement collects the evidence and is not to interpret or manipulate it. If they are protecting the integrity of the case and are concerned as to how the public would interpret or make assumptions over guilt of those involved than they should never release any details.
 
It sure doesn't sound like they had ever searched the Mitchell home, or you would expect they would say something to that effect of, 'originally searched 2 years ago but nothing was found at that time', or *some*thing?? I'm not sure how decomposition works but... if a body was put in the deep freeze, would it smell? Also, notice the wording (BBM), "Calgary police say the common law husband and children ..... lived among what are believed to be her remains for more than two years." If a body was in the freezer, would that be considered 'lived among'?? To me, among means..... amongst.. like.. just around.. ugh!!

There was a case in my province (ON) that came up just recently which happened I think a couple of years ago.. where the husband/father died of natural causes, but the family never reported it, and kept the body locked in a bedroom within the house, thinking he would 'resurrect' due to their religious beliefs. It wasn't discovered until foreclosure on the home started to happen and an agent came to get them out. Surprise, surprise!

Jeez, if something like that could be missed.. then it leads one to wonder if it could be missed in other homes as well, like what was suggested.. Parkhill.. ?

LoisLane said:
Do we know if the police had ever searched the Mitchell home at the beginning of the investigation? The body is thought to have been kept in the home for the last two years and when asked why the people and visitors in the home would not have known that the reply was that there are circumstances in the home that will come out in court that would have prevented the guests from knowing. Like what? Could it be the same circumstances that would have prevented LE from knowing? Was the home immaculate or a mess? Did it smell? Is there a trap door beneath the floor? In the walls?

What about this case? Could it be at all possible that the Airdrie or Parkhill home could conceal bodies? I wonder if the Parkhill home is set for demolition yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...kept-in-home-for-2-years-police-say-1.2863151

"Police will not say why Mitchell's children and visitors did not notice a body in the home in the two years since her disappearance.

"There are some circumstances with where — within the house — that will be revealed during the court process that will answer that question," said Sgt. John Hebert with the Calgary Police Service."
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I referenced a story of a man who was wanted and searched for by police and was living in his home the whole time. He lived in his basement for 17 years. Here is the most recent article now that he has been convicted.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/1...hid-from-police-in-his-own-home-for-17-years/

"“We had been looking for him for years,” said RCMP Cpl. Colette Zazulak after the 2012 bust. “We’re just happy that after 17 years, he’s finally behind bars.”
 
stan laurel said:
ok, I don't remember reading this because I don't read the Calgary sun,,, but this confuses me,, read it and then explain to me the part where it says "Jeff's brother Josh..."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/10/vigil-to-be-held-for-missing-calgary-boy-and-his-grandparents

who is this JL they are referring to?
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I wonder if Josh is one of the 6 Liknes kids...it seems that we didn't know who they all were at one time? Not sure if someone figured the whole bunch out or not.
 
Tinkerbel1 said:
I wonder if Josh is one of the 6 Liknes kids...it seems that we didn't know who they all were at one time? Not sure if someone figured the whole bunch out or not.
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The J in this case does not have a P or and L for a surname, his initials are JS
 
stan laurel said:
The J in this case does not have a P or and L for a surname, his initials are JS
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Ohhh. Wonder if it could be a son from AL's first wife. She may have remarried and he took his step-father's name? I don't know...that's the first I had heard of him as well...it was strange for sure. Maybe just a typo or something, like someone had mentioned upthread. Interesting.
 
Lalalacasbah said:
Not to sound too macabre, but I definitely think freezers are high on the list for LE when searching for victims in a suspect's home. I always think of Jeffrey Dahmer when I hear freezers, gross.

I also think they know to search crawl spaces, attics, sheds, in the walls even if they have scent dogs, and probably look for disturbed earth on properties/back yards, I would think anywhere the warrant lets them. LE have probably seen it all in regards to hiding places, tough job boy...
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Graphic Content:
Not to be more macabre than you...lol...but... LE found human remains in Robert Pickton's freezer, ground up and mixed in with ground pork in packages. I believe he had also sold/distributed some "mixed" packages of meat to friends and family members as well. I think LE probably have seen or at least heard of some pretty inventive ways of hiding bodies. It's beyond sick, IMO.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...serial+killer+Pickton+case/3359683/story.html
http://www.missingpeople.net/human_remains_suspected_in_pickt.htm
 
Tinkerbel1 said:
Graphic Content:
Not to be more macabre than you...lol...but... LE found human remains in Robert Pickton's freezer, ground up and mixed in with ground pork in packages. I believe he had also sold/distributed some "mixed" packages of meat to friends and family members as well. I think LE probably have seen or at least heard of some pretty inventive ways of hiding bodies. It's beyond sick, IMO.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...serial+killer+Pickton+case/3359683/story.html
http://www.missingpeople.net/human_remains_suspected_in_pickt.htm
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I totally remember hearing that about Pickton, one sick puppy he is. I lived in Vancouver during that time and did lots of driving through farm lands all the time back and forth to surrounding areas, and I always found those big, dark, abandoned looking barns and lots of land creepy. Some of them are so isolated too, what a travesty that whole story is :(
 
I am trying to figure out if DG has a court appearance this month. I wonder if the mention of the December date is after the May 2015 Preliminary Inquiry.

I found this article where Defence Attorney KR is mentioned in the case representing Trevor Kloschinsky. Interesting to note is the similar statement about receiving the disclosure in its entirity.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...r-s-accused-killer-appears-in-court-1.1138725
"The Calgary courtroom also heard Ross has only received a small portion of the disclosure packages of the case from the Crown needed to proceed."

Other noteworthy comments:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/12/0...ar-priddis-awaits-more-disclosure-in-the-case
"We’ve received two rounds of disclosure,” Ross told Judge Bob Wilkins, explaining he is waiting for one further package from Crown prosecutor Jim Sawa before he can set a preliminary inquiry."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2014/03/20140307-193845.html
"But defence counsel Maggie O'Shaughnessy complained Friday the Crown is dragging its feet in scheduling a hearing to determine if Trevor Kloschinsky was not criminally responsible in the killing of Rod Lazenby."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/08/0...d-in-death-of-former-rcmp-officer-rod-lazenby
"Leaning on the door frame between cells and the prisoner’s dock, his hands violently shaking, a gasping Kloschinsky said Legal Aid has refused his request for a new lawyer.

“They have refused to change counsel,” Kloschinsky said.

Bensler noted that former defence lawyer Kim Ross was granted permission to withdraw as counsel during Kloschinsky’s last court appearance and asked Crown prosecutor Jim Sawa to look into the matter."


This week Kloschinsky was found not criminally responsible.
http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...ponsible-for-death-of-foothills-peace-officer
 
It seems that CH is still unable to work:

News from the Acting Executive Director
Families of the Canmore Community Daycare,
As you may (or may not) know Cxxxxx Hxxxxxx, our Executive
Director is currently on leave for an undetermined amount of
time. As a result I am the Acting Executive Director until further
notice.
Cxxxxx suffered a terrible tragedy this past summer and is taking
time to heal, however long that might take. Please rest assured
that I have acted in this capacity in the past and feel confident
stepping into this role.
.....
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http://www.canmoredaycare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/November-2014-Newsletter.pdf
 
PonderingNS said:
As far as working again I think it sounds as if the foundation may be going to be the work ? Just a thought.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Fortney+Parents+Nathan+Brien+shed+light+private+struggles/10331959/story.html
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I don't think it will pay the bills the way it is set-up now. It could grow into something larger in the future... who knows!

Personally, I do not think that Nathan's parents are anywear close to being ready for giving back and turning their tragedy into something positive... Not yet. In the interviews (video) of the couple they are suffering so deeply it was unbearable to watch. I felt put-off by this story the timing of them being filmed and interviewed in this way so early in their grief process. It was so raw. It felt like they were giving into pressure by others to do this. JMOO
 
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