Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[ABro]

So not looking great for DG when his family are Crown witnesses.

I'm very curious about how this will play out. Normally, it would be very risky to put his aging parents on the stand unless absolutely necessary.

 

[otto]

I'm very curious about how this will play out. Normally, it would be very risky to put his aging parents on the stand unless absolutely necessary.

Yes, I recall that they are in their 80s, but they will very likely have to testify about being away from their house at the time of the murders.

 

[ABro]

Yes, I recall that they are in their 80s, but they will very likely have to testify about being away from their house at the time of the murders.

They could get an "agreed statement of facts" for that. No reason to put them on the stand just to say they were away.

 

[otto]

It was in fact puzzling for some of us. The idea that all three were killed and removed from the home was not convincing. Now we know they were not killed in the home.

Thinking back ... the Amber Alert was for Alvin and Nathan, and not Kathryn. I wonder whether only her DNA is in the bloody drag marks between the side door and the driveway, and if Alvin and Nathan were somewhat able to walk to the suspect's truck. I could never fully understand how a single person could lift a 200+ pound Alvin into the back of the truck.

 

[LoisLane]

Bill Graveland ‏@BillGraveland · 2h2 hours ago
Liknes said the company was trying to sell the pumps between 2003 and 2007. First version had problems. Didn't finish up new version.

Bill Graveland ‏@BillGraveland · 2h2 hours ago
Liknes talking about working at Vecto Resource Services Limited - trying to design a pump to alleviate groundwater from gas wells.

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 2h2 hours ago
"Hired Doug to do some wiring for us" regarding the first version of the pump, says Allen Liknes #garland

Bill Graveland ‏@BillGraveland · 2h2 hours ago
Douglas #Garland worked on the first version of the pump - the version that was patented but made no money.

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 2h2 hours ago
Alvin folded the company, only asset was a truck, some parts to build pumps #garland

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 2h2 hours ago
"He didn't do anything," says Allen Liknes of Douglas Garland when asked what he did for a living. #garland

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 2h2 hours ago
"Doug wasn't doing anything, and we offered him the job" to help with the pump, says Allen Liknes. Alvin & #garland 1st got along fine.

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 2h2 hours ago
Allen Liknes says #garland told him in 2010, three years after, that he was upset Alvin Liknes didn't want to work with him.

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 1h1 hour ago
Defence asks Allen Liknes about early confrontations between #garland and Alvin Liknes. He says none, no threats.

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 1h1 hour ago
Defence suggests bad blood between Alvin and #garland was minimal, but Allen says he was trying to "drum up some bad feelings" about his dad

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 1h1 hour ago
Allen Liknes describes Douglas #garland as "sneaky." Cross-exam is over, 3 witnesses expected tomorrow.

 

[otto]

They could get an "agreed statement of facts" for that. No reason to put them on the stand just to say they were away.

I guess they may have to testify to their perceptions of his state of mind leading up to the murders?

 

[LoisLane]

Thinking back ... the Amber Alert was for Alvin and Nathan, and not Kathryn. I wonder whether only her DNA is in the bloody drag marks between the side door and the driveway, and if Alvin and Nathan were somewhat able to walk to the suspect's truck. I could never fully understand how a single person could lift a 200+ pound Alvin into the back of the truck.

Or maybe no blood from her in the home? I can't imagine how Alvin would have got into that little truck willingly. He was rather tall wasn't he? Maybe KL was not bleeding and AL was cooperating in an effort to spare both Nathan and Kathy. Maybe there was a third vehicle and maybe even someone assisting DG.

 

[LoisLane]

Yes, I recall that they are in their 80s, but they will very likely have to testify about being away from their house at the time of the murders.

Yes, I am curious if DG had pressured them to take that camping trip away from home. Seeing as the crime scene was their property they will also be able to explain the layout of the home and out buildings. Maybe areas on the property were not known to the parents as well. I am very interested in what they will testify.

 

[ABro]

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...f-calgary-couple-and-grandson-prosecutor-says

 

[deugirtni]

I guess they may have to testify to their perceptions of his state of mind leading up to the murders?

I wonder if there was any communication between DG and his parents *after* the fact, while they were away, which they could testify about? They (and Patti too) may be asked if they were aware of a grudge DG held toward AL in regard to being fired/the pump work/patent?

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/01/16/douglas-garland-trial_n_14206936.html
Douglas Garland Trial: Court Hears Graphic 'Bloodbath' Details Of Crime Scene (GRAPHIC)
Posted: 01/16/2017 4:41 pm EST
The Crown opened its case by telling the jury that the couple and their grandson were violently snatched in the night and taken to a rural property where they were killed and their bodies burned.
"The three individuals were violently removed from their beds and taken to the Garland farm and killed,'' prosecutor Vicki Faulkner said.
[…]
The Crown outlined what police found. A burn barrel, still smouldering, contained bones and a small tooth. A tiny piece of burned flesh was found in the grass beside the barrel.
DNA belonging to Alvin Liknes and Nathan was found on a saw. Kathy Liknes's DNA was found on meat hooks.
[…]

 

[LoisLane]

'She walked into the mud room, and saw “pools of blood and hand marks in blood on the wall in front of me. I thought something’s really wrong here … something really bad has happened here.”

She went to the basement, where she’d last seen her five-year-old and her mum. She went into her parents’ bedroom, and saw more pools of blood. She went into the kitchen and saw blood throughout."

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...f-calgary-couple-and-grandson-prosecutor-says

So possibly there was no blood downstairs where Kathy and Nathan slept.

 

[otto]

The youngest child saved his and his mother's life by waking up and fussing.

"I immediately saw pools of blood and hand marks of blood on the wall."
...

"The Crown said DNA evidence from the missing family members was found on a saw and meat hooks, and bones and a tiny tooth were discovered in a large burn barrel.

A mapping plane that flew over the property also took photographs that show three bodies in the grass, according to the Crown's opening statement. Alvin and Kathy were lying face down, according to the prosecution. "You will also see a small figure curled up on the grass," said Faulkner. "The Crown says this is Nathan."
...

Nathan asked if he could stay for a sleepover that night at his grandparents' house, and Jennifer and her youngest also decided to stay, according to her evidence. But when the one-year-old woke up in the middle of the night, she scooped him up and drove home, leaving Nathan sleeping with his grandmother."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...in-kathy-liknes-murder-trial-begins-1.3936820

 

[deugirtni]

I may very well be skimming too quickly, but I'm confused.. doesn't the testimony from JO state that KL and NO were sleeping downstairs (basement)? And so that only leaves AL.... who was presumably one of the upstairs occupants (perhaps in the master bedroom)? But earlier MSM articles (such as the one linked below) in regard to what was found at the scene state that blood was found in 2 upstairs bedrooms on the head of the beds and neighbouring nightstands. I guess this means KL moved herself and/or NO up to the upstairs bedroom?

"In a guest bedroom upstairs, Matthes found blood on the head of the bed and neighbouring nightstand. When the officer walked down the hallway to the master bedroom, he observed the same thing."
http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...conclude-missing-boy-grandparents-likely-dead

@ValFortney:
"Jennifer says she went to another bedroom with Max; Nathan and Kathy were in basement in pullout bed. Headed upstairs after. #garland

Correction: Jennifer and baby Max went upstairs, grandma and Nathan were on pullout bed in basement. Went up with Max at 9. #garland"

‏

@KMartinCourts:
"Photo 13 shows basement pull out bed where Jennifer O'Brien last saw her mother and her son, Nathan. #garland"

‏
‏

@ReidFiest:
"Jennifer O'Brien says they watched a movie, and put her younger son to sleep. Kathy and Nathan slept on a pull out couch in basement. #yyc"

 

[musicaljoke]

J O'B was a very brave woman to walk through the house. I imagine she was so frantic to find her dear little son and parents that she gave no account to the danger that she may have been in herself.

 

[otto]

I may very well be skimming too quickly, but I'm confused.. doesn't the testimony from JO state that KL and NO were sleeping downstairs (basement)? And so that only leaves AL.... who was presumably one of the upstairs occupants (perhaps in the master bedroom)? But earlier MSM articles (such as the one linked below) in regard to what was found at the scene state that blood was found in 2 upstairs bedrooms on the head of the beds and neighbouring nightstands. I guess this means KL moved herself and/or NO up to the upstairs bedroom?

"In a guest bedroom upstairs, Matthes found blood on the head of the bed and neighbouring nightstand. When the officer walked down the hallway to the master bedroom, he observed the same thing."
http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...conclude-missing-boy-grandparents-likely-dead

‏
‏

If Kathryn and Nathan were sleeping on the pullout couch in the family room, then they must have gone upstairs to the spare bedroom when Jennifer left - because there was blood on the bed in the master bedroom and the spare bedroom. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

The Amber Alert excluded Kathryn, so the blood drag marks along the side of the house probably belonged to Kathryn - that is, there was no assumption that she was alive when she left the house. That there was blood drag marks suggests to me that the person who was dragged was still alive ... still bleeding.

I think the Crown is speculating that the three were killed at the Airdrie property, but it makes sense that one or two were still alive when they were taken from the house.

 

[LoisLane]

If Kathryn and Nathan were sleeping on the pullout couch in the family room, then they must have gone upstairs to the spare bedroom when Jennifer left - because there was blood on the bed in the master bedroom and the spare bedroom. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

The Amber Alert excluded Kathryn, so the blood drag marks along the side of the house probably belonged to Kathryn - that is, there was no assumption that she was alive when she left the house. That there was blood drag marks suggests to me that the person who was dragged was still alive ... still bleeding.

I think the Crown is speculating that the three were killed at the Airdrie property, but it makes sense that one or two were still alive when they were taken from the house.

Maybe they moved upstairs or the struggle between DG and AL carried into the next bedroom. Or DG fumbled around in the empty bedroom, maybe in the dark, feeling for Kathy. He could have been covered in blood and it transferred. Or Alvin was transferred to that room while DG searched the house for Kathy.

I feel like the Crown would not speculate where the three were killed, they seem confident. Do you have a link for the AA excluding Kathryn?

 

[otto]

Maybe they moved upstairs or the struggle between DG and AL carried into the next bedroom. Or DG fumbled around in the empty bedroom, maybe in the dark, feeling for Kathy. He could have been covered in blood and it transferred. Or Alvin was transferred to that room while DG searched the house for Kathy.

I feel like the Crown would not speculate where the three were killed, they seem confident. Do you have a link for the AA excluding Kathryn?

The side door - where Garland likely entered the property - leads into the room with the pull out couch. The blood was on the headboard and nearby nightstand in both the spare bedroom and the master bedroom (on the top level). My impression is that everyone was sleeping upstairs when Garland entered the property and that is where they were attacked.

We need to keep in mind that the house was a split level. If the basement is level 1 (furnace, etc), the side door, family room, garage is level 2, the main door, kitchen, dining, living room is level 3, and the bedrooms, office were level 4.

This is where taking the time to do a floorpan comes in handy.

 

[LoisLane]

I find this statement strange. Breakdown of what?

@nancyhixt
Allen says the working relationship ended when #Garland didn't answer his phone when Alvin had a break down and needed help

 

[Jay78]

Found something very interesting in the following article--a crime scene photo depicting one of the bedroom in the Liknes house:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...in-kathy-liknes-murder-trial-begins-1.3936820

edit: never mind.. apparently these are in many stories.. saw another one..