Still Missing Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 *Guilty* *Appeal* #29

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smr said:
^ What I thought, too. I don't think he was simply trying to run away from LE for good--he knew it's impossible. I agree it's something very important and urgent for him, as he was risking too much to go there so soon (which, indeed, resulted in him being arrested). It would be interesting to know what if the officers continued to monitor him for longer and see what's his destination and what he was going to do--best if he's caught hot handed. I think the final capture didn't accomplish what should have been; it didn't lead to any new discovery.

Another thought: could he have digged an escape tunnel long ago? Like that Mexican drug lord?
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I don't think it would be legal for officers to monitor him longer. IIRC that's known as Entrapment. Their role was to arrest him as soon as he violated the terms of his release, which they did.

The rental car is the proof his intent was to flee, he had no need for a tunnel.
 
How Douglas Garland nearly got away with three heinous Calgary murders
BY KEVIN MARTIN, POSTMEDIA NETWORK
"......When police circulated a still image of the truck, Patti Garland immediately recognized it as her brother’s — a man with a years-long grudge against Alvin Liknes, who happened to be the father of her then-common-law husband, Allen Liknes...."
http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/2...y-got-away-with-three-heinous-calgary-murders


******
I think everyone is grateful.

"I just thank God his family turned him in.” - Allen Liknes senior
 
naz said:
Y

Yes very big difference between Vance Li, ( I guess he changed his name ) schizophrenic, no planning, no trying to hide, feels remorse, takes his medication. I still feel for the mother of young Tim McClain.

And DG who plotted and studied, got high on gore.. planning the perfect murder.

Vance Li was the greyhound killer who murdered a young passenger.
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I agree. Two totally different types of killers.

I think Vince Li should not be allowed to self-medicate or be out and about. I think our mental health system needs so much work. If a schizophrenic has such a violent past, they should not be expected to self-medicate in case they feel "better" and stop their meds. He should be in a mental health facility supervised for many years.
 
dyannaON said:
Wow we are so much lower compared to the USA. I had no idea in numbers. There is some nasty stuff everywhere. Our murders just seem so extra with everything. :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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My thought is, we just give it more media attention. The USA is saturated in violence, I think here in Canada it seems more rare so when the really heinous crimes happen it's major news. I know someone who has worked in maximum penitentiaries and there's lots of sickos like Garland and Olsen in those jails, we all just didn't read or hear about them.
 
If DG's sister didn't tip him off, how do you all think the case would have been solved?
 
smr said:
If DG's sister didn't tip him off, how do you all think the case would have been solved?
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I had wondered that if he had rented a car and when reviewing the CCTV footage LE might be trained to notice traffic patterns. So they still might flag a vehicle that went around the block so many times, was there at odd hours, etc. Maybe they would've spotted the rented car, maybe not. Whether or not they could get plate #s off of CCTV to trace to a rental company is hard to say. If he had rented a car it might've been under the fake ID. Maybe they would cross reference that fake ID with the top suspects? I like to think CPS are top notch and would've found him, just would've taken longer and evidence might have been gone. Scary thought.
 
Lalalacasbah said:
I believe mental illness (i.e.: schizophrenia) is different from the criminal personality/personality disorders (i.e.: sadistic violent socio/psychopath types). I do not think DG suffers from a clinical mental illness, maybe some OCD which many people have. Psychopaths are also CEOs of corporations but not violent.

DG was a criminal most of his life, he liked it, he got better at it and wanted to push/test his limits. He was angry, obsessed and wanted the final say. If just revenge, he could've gotten AL alone and used a gun execution style, but he went into a grotesque territory because he wanted to, he enjoyed it and got satisfaction this way. This is all just my opinion of what kind of person he is.
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I was sure I read somewhere that DG has a form of autism...as well as other things...obsessive/compulsive disorder, depression no doubt? A lot of the autistic are trapped in their own minds...to the point that others that are around them don't exist. Could this be something that afflicted DG? His thought process and all? His thought process are wrong, he is not wired like most human beings in order to commit the crimes he committed. I can't imagine having zero compassion for that innocent baby...I'm sure that if he got the proper help at a younger age when things starting showing up as extremely wrong, this may have been prevented/diverted by lets say the Mental Health Act "Sectioning" option for those that may be a danger to himself or others. It sounds like he should have been much more carefully monitored by the mature and more responsible people in his family, instead of the 'denial' or the "treating of DG with kid gloves" because he wasn't normal in his head. This could be your own child where DG sits right now, really through an unfortunate 'make-up' of his mind at birth...would you stand by your child and support him? Or would you jump the fence to the other side where people want him dead? Do you honestly think that Doreen and Archie Garland deserve to hear the injustices done to their son in jail...where he is stationed to PAY FOR what he did with a sentence of 75 years without chance for parole? By the way, beatings are an extra...they are not part of Justice Gate's sentence.

There is no good reason, nor is it a good person IMO, when someone wants to shake hands with his assaulters or wishes that he gets beat just enough so that he can come back and get beatings everyday. That sort of attitude out of civilized people doesn't align with how we present out in public. Why not present what's really in your heart and mind, instead of what you want people to think? Be who you are...stand in your truth...if you truly believe he should be beaten and tortured and killed while qualifying it all with the "Karma will get you" card, then be that person. The Creator sees all, hears and knows all. But please, don't call yourself a Christian or sugar-coat it all with "I wouldn't wish this on anyone". In my opinion if you are thinking it then you may as well say it...it doesn't make you a better person by thinking it and not expressing. Why not stand there a put YOUR hand up and say "I want this evil man dead and whoever can get this job done is a hero". Then please, when it is your son or possibly daughter in a similar place (prison) one day (hoping not) but you never know... don't cry about the injustice being heaped on them because they're still people. Sometimes karma shows us our lessons in the form of visiting the very thing you judged right into your life so you can see it from the other side. Let's hope all here are protected from that.
 
Lalalacasbah said:
I agree. Two totally different types of killers.

I think Vince Li should not be allowed to self-medicate or be out and about. I think our mental health system needs so much work. If a schizophrenic has such a violent past, they should not be expected to self-medicate in case they feel "better" and stop their meds. He should be in a mental health facility supervised for many years.
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There is a part under the Canadian Mental Health Act, called a "Section" that is by the courts and makes it basically illegal for the mentally ill to go without their meds. It Is a court sanctioned order saying that LE have the right to find and arrest the ill person, put them in custody and take them to the hospital for treatment. Medication is actually mandatory and ordered by the courts.I hope this is the case. You can do very well on a medication for year, and on any day you can be unbalanced on them...they could require a stronger dose. It may take a little while before his Psychiatrist would know that.
 
MistyWaters said:
Here's a lînk to the VIctim Impact Statements.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/garland-victim-impact-statements-1.3989495

The family is far too respectful and refined to advocate breaking the law through vigilante justice committed by anyone, but where are you seeing forgiveness in their words??? In speaking of God's punishment, that's exactly the opposite to forgiveness. That they recognize evil is their right.
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I'm sorry, I think you may have misunderstood my post. I was not referring to their victim impact statements aside from one quote that suggests the judgment is with the Higher Power. I was referring to a) behavior in public wherein DG was never trashed by them and b) their evident faith and support received from members of their church and community. Forgiveness was maybe not quite the wrong word but I don't see any malice towards him...not in public anyway. JO was more angry with the media than DG it seemed . JMO
 
naz said:
If Clifford Olson has cancer, he would get treatment ( I'm not sure if he still alive) no one in the system would oppose it... wherever his treatment was successful or not, I would not know because I could not be bothered to check up on him.. Not interested in his welfare, that does not mean that I'm against inmates receiving treatment.

As for DG, yes he has mental issues. Do I wish there was better protection for inmates, I do. I'm a willing to agree prisons should get priority over schools.. long time care, mental health.? hmm

So if DG for the rest of his life has unfortunate incidents, I won't hesitate to blame the prison system, but I won't come accompanied with sympathy for him. Keep him safe and away..for the rest of his days . I do not need an update on his well being... I'm sure the rest of his life will be miserable even when safe in his jail cell.

If someone is stunting and crashed their cars , should I sympathize?

If some guy drive at very high speed, burn a light and T bone a car full of people. Should I sympathize?

But DG should get sympathy or understanding because he has a mental illness? Who draws the line..

That still is cause and effect.
.
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I think your points are all fair and I agree with them. There are consequences for our behaviors, but that shouldn't include fearing for your life on a daily basis. The sentencing and removal of priviledges/freedom/being part of society are enough. Those that aren't contributing to society, actually destroying it should definitely be removed from it...there are rules in society that are more than fair and easy to follow. That you are mindful of including DG (and all of them) in the system to have the right to be safe and protected is what makes me happy. I like to know that I'm not living in a society filled with volatile people that would rip another person apart given the chance based on their emotions...that's doesn't make me feel very safe. It's scary.

People die in prison a lot by the hand of their peers and that's not okay, I don't care what they did. Some poor fellow was strangled in his sleep. Another beaten so bad he's brain damaged (I saw that documentary, it was sad) That's not what the Canadian system expects to happen to those that are incarcerated. Just to be clear, I don't think they should have weekly massages or better televisions than we have at home. I only wish that all are safe and can serve out their sentences in peace from others...hopefully the lack of peace they have comes from their own consciences and not by someone else's hands.

Your analogies of the vehicle issues above are interesting when speaking of having sympathy. There have been several instances over the years, with friends and acquaintances young driving age children have made some bad decisions. They turn 16, get into the jeep, truck or car their parents have bought for them, bring a few friends for the ride and then have gone out, stomped on the gas to either show-off or not realizing it's too fast and rolled their vehicles. 2 were killed. I do have sympathy for them, they weren't experienced enough and didn't think through the consequences. Their affliction? They're excited teens...were they breaking the law? Yes, did they deserve to die? No. I have sympathy for those that don't know better for whatever reason...age, experience, mental illness, etc. Sorry if that's unpopular but I don't think anyone would say they deserved it for making stupid choices. If they were put in detention for repeated stunting, etc and killed by another in detention...I also have sympathy...even though they should've known better, they repeated the behavior. Put them in detention, but I'm sure no one would want their child killed by another bad kid's hands in detention. Douglas Garland's parents hurt too. No one has the right to kill someone else in society, that's why he's in jail. What DG did, doesn't change that right for the prisoners in jail, or the people in society. No one should be praised for hurting or killing another human being. JMO
 
kdgdid said:
Also the family member that was on the fb group left after calling a former member who was sympathetic to DG a name that rhymes witch.
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I believe she left because she also posted a private FB post of that former member and an Admin told her that was inappropriate, which it was. They got into an argument and she didn't like being told to follow the rules...so she left. Let's not turn it into a self-righteous drama about being offended as a family member. That "family member" isn't nice in any group she's in. Unpopular is one thing, nasty is another. The only 'sympathy' the former member had for DG was the right to a fair trial and the right not to be beaten in jail. The member was completely disgusted by the display of the majority of active members that day of the sub-human level of sheer savageness, maliciousness, immaturity and hatred. THAT was not only offensive but scary. And not what one would expect from civilized people.
 
MistyWaters said:
What evidence was presented to indicate "something is not right with him upstairs"?

I recall Garland's only defence was there wasn't enough direct evidence to prove him guilty and of course the jury saw otherwise. No mitigating circumstances were mentioned during sentencing either. His mother said he was "an unhappy man"?

When was it mentioned that Garland was diagnosed with any sort of affliction that would cause him to not know the difference between right and wrong???
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It's been said many times all over the news of DG's past history of mental issues, breakdown. I think it's pretty clear he's obviously not "right in the head"...he's in jail for killing 3 people visciously. I believe part of the evidence was weekly visits to the psychiatrist. I've never said he doesn't know right from wrong, he obviously does as demonstrated by his self-representation in court against the Canadian Government over EI benefits. There's something wrong upstairs if they don't care. I don't believe Paul Bernardo's defense was of 'psychopathy' either...or the fellows in the Timothy Bosma case. Does it have to be presented as evidence in court or used as a defense to be true? I think his past and present actions speak loud enough to be able to make that determination. JMO
 
naz said:
Another rock in the puddle... If DG knew that he would get caught, would he have proceed with his murderous spree? I think not, therefore he had some sort of control over his actions..
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I believe at some point he did. It seems all reason got lost in his obsession over them. Pretty soon, if you think thingss enough, they become true, and all reason goes out the window.
 
Tinkerbel1 said:
I believe she left because she also posted a private FB post of that former member and an Admin told her that was inappropriate, which it was. They got into an argument and she didn't like being told to follow the rules...so she left. Let's not turn it into a self-righteous drama about being offended as a family member. That "family member" isn't nice in any group she's in. Unpopular is one thing, nasty is another. The only 'sympathy' the former member had for DG was the right to a fair trial and the right not to be beaten in jail. The member was completely disgusted by the display of the majority of active members that day of the sub-human level of sheer savageness, maliciousness, immaturity and hatred. THAT was not only offensive but scary. And not what one would expect from civilized people.
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To clarify my post the member that called the former member a name that rhymes with witch and was prefaced with the word stupid was a male who identified as being NO's Uncle.
His response points to the family members not sharing the forgive sentiment.
 
Respectfully, can we please move on?

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous
ˌsaNG(k)təˈmōnēəs/Submit
adjectivederogatory
making a show of being morally superior to other people.

synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pious, pietistic, churchy, moralizing, preachy, smug, superior, priggish, hypocritical, insincere; informalgoody-goody
"no one wants to hear your sanctimonious hot air"
End of description.
 
I've been reading but i'm not participating in any conversations regarding sympathy or forgiveness for Douglas Garland. The conversation actually repulses me. All of my positive and good thoughts are being sent to the Liknes and O'Brien families.
 
olivebpa1 said:
I've been reading but i'm not participating in any conversations regarding sympathy or forgiveness for Douglas Garland. The conversation actually repulses me. All of my positive and good thoughts are being sent to the Liknes and O'Brien families.
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I agree. And to your exact point, something that has always irked me is how high profile murderers gain notoriety even in prison and their names become a household word. But all too soon the victims get forgotten.
 
Melzack said:
4 inmates charged injailhouse beating of triple-murderer Douglas Garland
http://globalnews.ca/news/3265568/4-inmates-charged-in-jailhouse-beating-of-triple-murderer-douglas-garland/?sf58000297=1


Someone should send them canteen money...
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I hope their sentences are lengthened due to violent assault against defenceless people, and hopefully they will not be violently assaulted for their violent behaviour. Obviously it's not okay under any circumstances to kick people in the head, and a strong message needs to be communicated both in jail and in the community.
 
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