CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[annemc2]

Migraines can cause all sorts of sensory and motor impairment just on their own. Vestibular symptoms, visual auras, olfactory hallucinations and all kinds of bizarre things. Throw in a medication (historically a triptan) to exacerbate things. Some meds knock me flat on my butt and some don't affect me at all. It's a crapshoot if they even work.

My sweet neighbors tried to help me a few years ago with "medicine" from their little farm and oh man, once I saw a god-like apparition in my ceiling baahaha. Strangely, cannabis can also tank your blood pressure, causing light-headedness (ask me how I know). That experiment didn't go so well!

All of that being said, this case had my mind flopping back and forth like a fish during the episode. I don't know what to make of it. Almost every argument written here has me changing my mind!

 

[otto]

1) Either she fell into the piggy bank headfirst and then tumbled down the stairs or 2) someone picked it up, smashed her in the head, and then placed it back on the ledge where it (apparently) normally sat.

There's just zero evidence that anyone else was in that house.

I mentioned it before, but I think many are overlooking the role cannabis could've played in her impairment.

Did she fall or was she pushed.
That's the question.

No one picked up the piggy bank. That has been confirmed by police. The piggy bank was found on the stairwell landing ledge, covered in dust, missing a nose. It was not touched during Amanda's death, other than the missing nose and dent in the wall.

Fragments of the piggy bank's nose were found embedded in her head and on the stairwell leading to the concrete basement floor.

It must take a lot of force to completely miss two steps, slam into the wall, lose footing, and take a header 90 degrees down the stairs. She was stoned, but so stoned that she took a header down the stairs and bled to death?

 

[iamshadow21]

This case reminds me so much of that of Janice Johnson. The husband was convicted, but freed on appeal after five years after it was proved a freak accident.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/clayton-johnson-wrongful-conviction-shelburne-1.4307049

But it also reminds me of Kathleen Peterson, and people can't decide on that one.

I, personally, think Amanda's death was a horrible accident. People act in all kinds of strange ways with a)migraines, b)drugs, c)head injuries, and d)blood loss. She had all four at once. I think she was severely cognitively affected, and as her blood loss continued, it only got worse. We know she stood at the foot of the stairs. I think by the time she did that, she literally couldn't understand how to climb them, just that it was her way out, and she needed help. Very, very sad.

Makes me glad I don't have staircases or a basement in my home. Apart from a couple up to the front door, it's all one level.

MOO

 

[otto]

Agreed.

The dog could have knocked over the chair in a panic after being stepped on.

The chair was on the other side of the table from the phone.

Something happened for Amanda to take a full on header down two stairs into the wall, crack the nose of the piggy bank, embed piggy bank fragments in her head and on the stairs, and die.

The chair doesn't make sense.

She was on the phone with her husband at 7:06 P.M. At 7:10 P.M., the phone disconnected. When she was on the phone with her husband, was she walking and talking, or sitting on the chair?

If she thought a stranger was in the house, why didn't she say - hey, something weird here. Stay on the phone while I look around. Phone disconnected.

Drop the phone, trip over the dog, sure. But the chair doesn't fit.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Other than the tipped-over chair, I'm leaning towards accident. The chair has no explanation, unless, while she was on the phone, the dog barked, she stood up quickly, knocked over the chair, lunged towards the dog, dropped her phone, went head first into the piggy bank, lost her balance, and somersaulted down the stairs.

Amanda had cannabis in her system. It's unknown what levels she needed to loose balance and analytical thinking ability.

The hypothetical 'murder weapon' was the piggy bank, and there is evidence that her head impacted the piggy bank while it was sitting on the shelf next to the landing. There is evidence that the piggy bank was not touched, or moved off the shelf, before or after Amanda's head contacted the piggy bank.

There is evidence of the piggy bank on the stairs. The only explanation is that Amanda's head contacted the piggy bank, pieces of the piggy bank are embedded in her head, and fragments fell out of her head as she tumbled down the stairs.

How many times did she hit her head?

1. hit the piggy bank with her head
2. fragments of the piggy bank on the stairs
3. hit her head on the concrete basement floor when she landed?

There's no evidence that anyone, other than the victim, was at the bottom of the stairs. Every fragment of evidence, blood drops, foot prints and blood smears belonged to Amanda.

There's evidence that Amanda bled to death. Between hitting the piggy bank and dying, there is evidence that she fell, stood up, left large blood drops on top of smeared blood, moved around in the blood while lying on the floor, smeared blood around, stood facing the stairs, but did not walk up the stairs.

Amanda had some bruising on her body, which could be explained by falling down the stairs.

Time of death is between 7-7:30 P.M., shortly after the call with her husband abruptly ended.

"If the wound is bad enough to cause rapid blood loss, bleeding to death can happen as quickly as 5 minutes. If the bleeding is slower but continuous, days can pass before bleeding to death is occurs.​

https://study.com/academy/lesson/symptoms-of-bleeding-out.html

A neighbour came forward, at some point, to say that someone was in the yard. It's possible that someone was cutting through the yard. It might not be relevant. See 100 block of Castledale Way NE : map

Husband has been ruled out. His sister has been ruled out. Nothing on electronic devices supports a private friendship that Amanda was pursuing. She was not getting divorced, but she expressed frustration to her siblings that her husband was having trouble keeping a job.

Amanda's pants were "down around her knees." Bleeding out is associated with hypothermia. As she was dying, did she feel hot and want to remove her clothing?

"Hypothermia in trauma patients is a common condition. It is aggravated by traumatic hemorrhage, which leads to hypovolemic shock. This hypovolemic shock results in a lethal triad of hypothermia, coagulopathy, and acidosis, leading to ongoing bleeding."​

Hypothermia in Trauma

Hypothermia in trauma patients is a common condition. It is aggravated by traumatic hemorrhage, which leads to hypovolemic shock. This hypovolemic shock results in a lethal triad of hypothermia, coagulopathy, and acidosis, leading to ongoing bleeding. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You make great points Otto

Did they say they ruled out the sister? I'm foggy and don't recall that but I might've missed that.

I still feel like if she fell into the piggy bank it would've fallen off the ledge and since she would've been a moving/in motion entity and force - the piggy bank would've fallen. She would've miraculously had to fall almost at a 90 degree angle to smack down on that piggy bank and somehow not jar it to move it more.

I still think someone grabbed her by the hair and slammed her head once into that piggy bank and she turned her head as a defensive and got cut by fluke in that tender temporal area to bleed out more.

Had she hit the piggy bank head on, her skull bone would've protected her more and not bleed so much... she would've lived. I don't think the person meant to kill her, but she fell down the stairs or was kicked after the head wound and the killer maybe panicked and waited a bit then fled. JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

1) Either she fell into the piggy bank headfirst and then tumbled down the stairs or 2) someone picked it up, smashed her in the head, and then placed it back on the ledge where it (apparently) normally sat.

There's just zero evidence that anyone else was in that house.

I mentioned it before, but I think many are overlooking the role cannabis could've played in her impairment.

Cannabis doesn't really impair people much when used for pain relief. We don't know if she smoked it, edible or oil. Some cannabis is for body and some for mind. Maybe a body stone would physically alter someone but hard to say it's impact.

And I agree with your point #1 - she would've had to have that miraculous angle to hit (slam hard) head first with a tilt and angle of her head in that tender area to be so deadly.

For point #2, I don't think someone picked it up. I think they grabbed her by the hair and slammed her into it. It never needed to move.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Something happened for Amanda to take a full on header down two stairs into the wall, crack the nose of the piggy bank, embed piggy bank fragments in her head and on the stairs, and die.

The chair doesn't make sense.

She was on the phone with her husband at 7:06 P.M. At 7:10 P.M., the phone disconnected. When she was on the phone with her husband, was she walking and talking, or sitting on the chair?

If she thought a stranger was in the house, why didn't she say - hey, something weird here. Stay on the phone while I look around. Phone disconnected.

Drop the phone, trip over the dog, sure. But the chair doesn't fit.


View attachment 523847

I think it happened fast. I think someone stormed in, grabbed the phone right out of her hand mid-convo, smashed it with the heel of their foot/shoe and maybe chased Amanda around the kitchen to get in her face.

Didn't her husband say he heard a crunch? I think I read that upthread, not sure if correct from the doc. I think someone smashed the phone with the heel of their foot/shoe. That would take 2 seconds.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Agreed.

The dog could have knocked over the chair in a panic after being stepped on.

The chair was on the other side of the table from the phone.

We have a huge dog, he can't even knock over any of our chairs! It's never happened. A crappy old school light weight lawn chair on grass maybe... but not a kitchen table chair. How often has that actually happened to people? Come on...

And how many pet owners trip over their pets on medication/cannabis and fall to their deaths in a bloody mess? Oh wait... AND it's the one night it's known their husband is away.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

We have a huge dog, he can't even knock over any of our chairs! It's never happened. A crappy old school light weight lawn chair on grass maybe... but not a kitchen table chair. How often has that actually happened to people? Come on...

And how many pet owners trip over their pets on medication/cannabis and fall to their deaths in a bloody mess? Oh wait... AND it's the one night it's known their husband is away.

You could just as easily say, “How often are people randomly murdered by strangers with no apparent motive, no robbery, and no evidence?” The odds for both options are pretty long, which is why I lean toward accident. The combo of illness and drugs can be lethal and has led to stranger accidents in the past.

For the sake of counterpoint, I’ve had dogs who have knocked over heavy dining chairs while doing the zoomies.

The animals not going downstairs isn’t a red flag to me. They were probably traumatized and scared, could smell death. Not every pet is the trusty companion that will fearlessly follow their master into danger. The phone is the biggest question mark for me.