CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[Poedelini]

Coming up the stairs is a very interesting idea. A fall makes even more sense to me when thinking of it that way tbh. She could have missed a step, as I’m sure we’ve all done, fallen forward and smacked her face into the piggy bank, then tumbled back down the stairs.

But could it be with enough force? I don't think the momentum is big enough to create such a big wound on her head if she was coming up the stairs. If it was a accident it would make more sense she fell down the stairs, because gravity would upgrade the momentum.
Jmo

 

[FromGermany1]

I read (I think: here in this thread), that Amanda had migraines and Friday and Saturday drove into town to pharmacies for buying painkillers. If I had migraines, I wouldn't drive more than one time to a pharmacy, exactly because of my pains. Wondering still .....

A's husband brought his own sister into play as a possible suspect. Do we know, why and a reason for his thoughts?

It was allegedly the first time, A's husband was absent for some days. Do we know, why he was absent and where he was and why over the weekend? Why did the spouses have so many telephone calls?
Do we know, why the husband didn't care for his wife, when their last call was disrupted? To me it makes no sense to have communication x times a day (despite migraines?), then being satisfied and relaxed, if suddenly the communication stops at that early time of day. (If he felt bothered by her calls and was happy, that the calls finally stopped, then I can understand it a little.)

Afaik, a person was seen running away from the home, even running through neighbor's garden/backyard, which wouldn't have been permitted. THAT alone is an indication for me, that someone participated in the deadly incident at A's home. The barking, then yelping Retriever is also an indication, IMO. Yelping means, someone caused him pain, I believe, and that someone certainly wouldn't have been Amanda.

A's cell phone and the place, it was lying there fallen down or thrown down, to me looks like it "points" to the edge of the floor to the right besides the stairs. One or two steps and a perpetrator could have pushed A with power down the edge, which has no banister around, after s/he knocked the phone out of her hand. The person may have put their shoe on it afterwards, although I didn't learn of a shoe print on the phone. (If the person was smart, s/he could have put a towel out of the laundry basket between the phone and the shoe first.)

A's pants, which were pulled down, I can't explain for myself. I don't know, how deep they were pulled down?? I can't imagine, the pants came down through a fall, pushed or not pushed by someone. Also I don't think, they came down by getting caught up in the railing. Can you think of a perp, who ripped off her pants and then pushed her, knowing, that she couldn't intercept her crash in any way? Idk, but .... so many hateful, evil people are on the way.
MOO

PS: I don't have Netflix.

 

[Diavola]

I believe if was a freak accident with emphasis on freak.
The way I see it, she trips over her dog who yelps and runs away, hitting the chair in panic. Her phone falls and slides away.
She falls into the nook from the unrailed edge, falling face first into the piggy bank at an upward angle. The piggy bank hits the wall with force leaving a dent and gets lodged into her face. While lodged into her face, it turns toward the basement in the direction Amanda is falling, but dislodges before in can fall off the ledge. Amanda is now in the basement with a bleeding head wound, while also under the influence of canabis and migraines. She is bleeding and probably very disoriented. Maybe she thinks she could wait out the pain before going upsatairs, because she doesn't want to risk another fall. Unfortunately, she ends up bleeding out in the 44 hours until she is discovered.
As for her pets not going down, I'm not sure if they ever mentioned if they were afraid of the basement (some pets are). But her dog got hurt and now can probably smell blood and blood can't mean anything good. Not all pets are superheroes who come to aid.

 

[Kittypoo]

It looks like a solid piggy bank. I'd like to see a photo of the sheep-piggy bank beforehand. Seeing how it was broken (before and after) would help to understand how it was hit. It's possible that she hit it at just the right angle to break the sheep's nose while simultaneously shoving the sheep-piggy bank into her forehead and the wall, rebounding, and going head first into the stairs so hard that clay piggy-bank fragments fell out of her head and were embedded on the stairs. Where was the piggy bank before she died?

Fragments of the missing nose of the sheep were embedded in her forehead, and were left on the stairs, suggesting that she tumbled head first, somersaulting down the stairs.

There's an exacto-knife on the shelf next to the piggy bank. If there was an intruder threatening death, why not use that? Was it also covered in dust?

How old was their black labrador retriever? They can be rambunctious.
Was Amanda right or left handed?

View attachment 524170
photos: Beliner-kurier.de and upthread

View attachment 524172

Coming up the stairs is a very interesting idea. A fall makes even more sense to me when thinking of it that way tbh. She could have missed a step, as I’m sure we’ve all done, fallen forward and smacked her face into the piggy bank, then tumbled back down the stairs.

I literally came on here to type maybe she fell upstairs. Just about to watch the Netflix doc eek!

 

[FromGermany1]

Afaik, a person was seen running away from the home, even running through neighbor's garden/backyard, which wouldn't have been permitted. THAT alone is an indication for me, that someone participated in the deadly incident at A's home. The barking, then yelping Retriever is also an indication, IMO. Yelping means, someone caused him pain, I believe, and that someone certainly wouldn't have been Amanda.

bbm
Sorry, I believe, the Retriever is a Labrador. A Labrador is also big though. It won't happen often, that you are tripping dangerously over a large dog or are you?

 

[katyy]

Things the police will know but that weren't mentioned in the Netflix show:
When the husband returned home, had the dog urinated on the floor inside? If not, is it likely that their dog could hold its bladder for 36 hours? Mine definitely couldn't. (However, my dog definitely could knock over a heavy dining chair!)
Was the phone found to have turned off at the time that the call disconnected, or did the call disconnect first and then the phone turned off later? Was the phone broken or just out of battery? Seems unlikely it would have run out of battery at that exact moment so IMO it must have been smashed, either accidentally or deliberately.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I don't mean to over post, I'm just hooked on this one and it's making me go in a few diretions! Ok, so I put arrows on the pics and take it with a grain of salt as I'm not super skilled at this

- To hit that piggy bank where it's broken she would almost be needing to be coming up the stairs (which is not my thought but the angle is messing with me).
- Or she was on that dangerous corner at top of stairs facing the laundry and fell sideways to hit her right side, or if fell she fell face first but turned her head to protect herself and smashed the right side?

View attachment 524218

Thank you for posting these. I agree the angle is strange. The piggybank face is angled right, which means the tail is angled left. If the tail left an impression in the wall during the strike, it indicates that was the position when she hit it (or was hit).

As your pic indicates, she would need to be on the right side of where the stairs begins.

Also somewhat strange, but perhaps insignificant, is how that fireman's hat wasn't knocked off. It's sitting precariously in those photos.

Edit: Also note, the placement of the soccer ball in the bag and the blue bucket is different in those two photos.

 

[Kittypoo]

I read (I think: here in this thread), that Amanda had migraines and Friday and Saturday drove into town to pharmacies for buying painkillers. If I had migraines, I wouldn't drive more than one time to a pharmacy, exactly because of my pains. Wondering still .....

A's husband brought his own sister into play as a possible suspect. Do we know, why and a reason for his thoughts?

It was allegedly the first time, A's husband was absent for some days. Do we know, why he was absent and where he was and why over the weekend? Why did the spouses have so many telephone calls?
Do we know, why the husband didn't care for his wife, when their last call was disrupted? To me it makes no sense to have communication x times a day (despite migraines?), then being satisfied and relaxed, if suddenly the communication stops at that early time of day. (If he felt bothered by her calls and was happy, that the calls finally stopped, then I can understand it a little.)

Afaik, a person was seen running away from the home, even running through neighbor's garden/backyard, which wouldn't have been permitted. THAT alone is an indication for me, that someone participated in the deadly incident at A's home. The barking, then yelping Retriever is also an indication, IMO. Yelping means, someone caused him pain, I believe, and that someone certainly wouldn't have been Amanda.

A's cell phone and the place, it was lying there fallen down or thrown down, to me looks like it "points" to the edge of the floor to the right besides the stairs. One or two steps and a perpetrator could have pushed A with power down the edge, which has no banister around, after s/he knocked the phone out of her hand. The person may have put their shoe on it afterwards, although I didn't learn of a shoe print on the phone. (If the person was smart, s/he could have put a towel out of the laundry basket between the phone and the shoe first.)

A's pants, which were pulled down, I can't explain for myself. I don't know, how deep they were pulled down?? I can't imagine, the pants came down through a fall, pushed or not pushed by someone. Also I don't think, they came down by getting caught up in the railing. Can you think of a perp, who ripped off her pants and then pushed her, knowing, that she couldn't intercept her crash in any way? Idk, but .... so many hateful, evil people are on the way.
MOO

PS: I don't have Netflix.

Ok so I’ve watched the doc and a few observations

The sister had a strong motive as both Amanda and husband had called in child services as she was a heavy drug user and resulting child taken into care.

Although the husband came across as caring this does not explain him not asking for a welfare check or checking himself on his wife or why the phone cut off for 44 hours.

The neighbours said they had heard a disturbance dog barking which was unusual then a second neighbour saw a man unknown running away yet nobody called LE or went over to investigate? Weird

The amount of blood and her not trying to get back upstairs makes me think she was knocked out for hours whilst bleeding profusely and this caused death. No brain injury was recorded. The CSI team mentioned it was the worst scene they had seen in terms of blood.

Still can’t explain the phone, knocked chair trousers or the animals behaviour.

All JMO

Any further thoughts?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree 100% would th everything you said there.

Also…the steps were carpeted. And there were just a couple steps, then a small landing and then about 8 more steps. I don’t know, but the injuries just seem too traumatic for a stumble.

IMO, it’s more likely that she was pushed, shoved and/or kicked down those stairs.

Did anyone else have a spare set of house keys, such as someone in the family in case of emergencies?

Castleridge is such a sketchy area….i can’t believe she would have left the door unlocked when home alone on a dark, chilly October evening.

Who was able to walk right in?

Who was able to walk in or maybe be let in? Although let in doubtful probably. Good idea about extra set of keys or if someone was given keys?

I agree, stairs were carpeted and she had slippers on they found in basement. I wonder if rubber type bottoms or sock-like bottom of slipper? I only wear ones with a grip so I don't slip or slide.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The piggy bank is placed exactly above the banister end incl. the metal bracket. I think, if she fell onto the piggy bank, she must have had injuries from the banister end and metal bracket also? If the piggy bank injured her outer eye socket/part of forehead, I imagine, the banister must have injured her cheek and her nose also. Piggy bank and banister end are so very near positioned; it's impossible, to have injuries only from one of these things, IMO.
They (LE) should have used a dummy with Amanda's body length/weight and drop/push it down from different starting points until the result is compatible with the findings by the pathologist. Do you all think, that was indeed done?

Yes! That banister would be hit as well I'd think right? Wonder if any blood spatter or blood at all on the banister?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

That’s a great point, about tying to recreate the fall by pushing a dummy. I would think that professional investigators would have tried that already, but maybe not!

Also, does anyone think it’s strange that no other items fell off the ledge and into the stairs when she supposedly fell into the piggy bank?

I noticed that too, nothing else on ledge seems out of place?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thank you for posting these. I agree the angle is strange. The piggybank face is angled right, which means the tail is angled left. If the tail left an impression in the wall during the strike, it indicates that was the position when she hit it (or was hit).

As your pic indicates, she would need to be on the right side of where the stairs begins.

Also somewhat strange, but perhaps insignificant, is how that fireman's hat wasn't knocked off. It's sitting precariously in those photos.

Edit: Also note, the placement of the soccer ball in the bag and the blue bucket is different in those two photos.

Good thoughts and good catch on the soccer ball and bucket. Maybe one photo was before they started searching or carefully sifting through the scene and evidence? So maybe moved stuff around and put evidence markers down? Guessing of course!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

But could it be with enough force? I don't think the momentum is big enough to create such a big wound on her head if she was coming up the stairs. If it was a accident it would make more sense she fell down the stairs, because gravity would upgrade the momentum.
Jmo

Yeah that's the kicker, I also don't think enough force to be coming up the stairs even though the angle kinda "fits".

Unless someone behind her on the stairs and smashed her into the piggy bank on the way up then let her fall back down.

Hypothesizing: Maybe Amanda reluctantly backed away down the stairs to get away from someone in kitchen, they followed her part way down, convinced her to go back up to talk or whatever but maybe Amanda said something on the way up and attacker (she's going to call police or make a report) lost their cool and impulsively smacked her down.

Could've happened on stairs I suppose, no other DNA in basement and likely not stairs(?) unless LE is keeping some things quiet. They mentioned no other DNA in basement where they thought attack happened. No struggle would've happened with a quick smash to the head and if an impulsive action not necessarily planned. JMO MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

New to this one and have not seen the Netflix episode yet. Did just watch the Dr. Todd Grande YT entitled ‘Dead Body in Basement Reveals Perplexing Evidence | Amanda Antoni 'Unsolved Mysteries' Case Analysis’ (posted circa August 3, 2024.) The evidence photos in that YT seem to tell quite a tale of the event IMO?

Quite an odd and baffling case so far. Troubling as well.

First observation…… the angles in the landing and the steps to the basement. And the victim winds up near across the basement floor in the corner? And the amount of blood on the floor and up the walls? And the phone so far from the sites? Have to wonder the total dimensions and distances for all.

The multiple injuries that Dr. Grande reported, presumably from the autopsy report? I.e. blunt force trauma head, face, back, buttocks, extremities; bruising to same above IIRC; facial lacerations; and nasal bone and orbital bone damage. But no brain damage. If truly a fall that distance would there have been likely brain damage? Same question if from being struck?

Is there evidence of the husband having been on the supposed call with AA? And are those times and calls documented? Or is it just his word and statements? And is it strictly coincidence that at great distance apart, the husband and wife are on the call together - simultaneously - when an alleged incident occurs? Who initiated that call? That seems awful suspicious on initial thought.

The husband’s mention of the intricate lace underwear is odd at best. And that one point alone IMO opens up many suspicions perhaps? As others speculate, not discounting it but also wonder if the migraine might have been a reason to avoid the trip.

Lastly the husband’s supposed concern for her and yet no attempt for a wellness check while he was away. That seems rather unsettling.

Was there an insurance policy on AA? And if so what amount and payable to whom?

In summary, at best it must be the cause of death as from the injuries. But manner of death seems to be undetermined. On total is hard not to believe that foul play was involved IMO. And if not by someone in the house, someone with an association with the victim and husband?

About the only evidence IMO that doesn’t speak to possible foul play, seems to be the bare footprints only of the victim on the basement floor. But that really needs to be plotted and better described before deciding. Would hope that investigators had done an extensive forensic and DNA surface sweep early in the case. But if the suspicion was an accident or suicide, did they overlook key clues early? MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

A's husband brought his own sister into play as a possible suspect. Do we know, why and a reason for his thoughts?

Amanda and her husband called in (not sure exact agency name in Calgary) and had his sister's kid or kids taken away, as sister was on drugs at the time. The sister was harassing Amanda (or both) with multiple phone calls, Amanda IIRC noted in her journal the sister didn't like her and never liked Amanda. I believe Amanda was scared of her in some form.

It was allegedly the first time, A's husband was absent for some days. Do we know, why he was absent and where he was and why over the weekend? Why did the spouses have so many telephone calls?

He went to his mother's approx 7hrs away I think it was. His father passed away a year before or so and was helping mom go through stuff at the house. Amanda was supposed to go but changed her mind at the last minute because of the migraine.

My comments/JMO: IF she actually had a "migraine" or maybe didn't want to play 'happy couple' with any family if they were fighting or any tensions. Only a few people would know Amanda didn't go and was home alone.

Do we know, why the husband didn't care for his wife, when their last call was disrupted? To me it makes no sense to have communication x times a day (despite migraines?), then being satisfied and relaxed, if suddenly the communication stops at that early time of day. (If he felt bothered by her calls and was happy, that the calls finally stopped, then I can understand it a little.)

That's a question many people are asking. Personally, depends on a couple's communication style. I've gone away with my kids and not phoned their dad at all over a couple days. My partner probably wouldn't check up on me lol... not funny but that irks me about my partner!

A's pants, which were pulled down, I can't explain for myself. I don't know, how deep they were pulled down?? I can't imagine, the pants came down through a fall, pushed or not pushed by someone. Also I don't think, they came down by getting caught up in the railing. Can you think of a perp, who ripped off her pants and then pushed her, knowing, that she couldn't intercept her crash in any way? Idk, but .... so many hateful, evil people are on the way.
MOO

IIRC pants were down to knees or just above knees. Could've been done to humiliate or a red herring for LE to think SA or maybe Amanda was about to go pee and someone came in made her go to the kitchen to talk/confront - but no idea where bathroom is in relation to kitchem

*RSBM above: I can try to answer some questions from what I recall

 

[Pseudonymph]

OK, how about this? There’s an angry intruder, for whatever reason. The intruder gets a few kicks and punches in. She runs for the stairs, trips over the laundry basket, falls to the side, hits right side of face hard on piggy bank. The intruder comes after her and starts to yank on her feet and pant legs to drag her back upstairs. Instead her pants get partially pulled down. In the process, perhaps she rolls down the stairs. She’s unconscious or moaning, clearly bleeding heavily. The intruder sees this is going south and leaves the house.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Ok so I’ve watched the doc and a few observations

The sister had a strong motive as both Amanda and husband had called in child services as she was a heavy drug user and resulting child taken into care.

Although the husband came across as caring this does not explain him not asking for a welfare check or checking himself on his wife or why the phone cut off for 44 hours.

The neighbours said they had heard a disturbance dog barking which was unusual then a second neighbour saw a man unknown running away yet nobody called LE or went over to investigate? Weird

The amount of blood and her not trying to get back upstairs makes me think she was knocked out for hours whilst bleeding profusely and this caused death. No brain injury was recorded. The CSI team mentioned it was the worst scene they had seen in terms of blood.

Still can’t explain the phone, knocked chair trousers or the animals behaviour.

All JMO

Any further thoughts?

I am stealing a thought from someone I read elsewhere to share here as it's an interesting one. Again, it's really hard to say the exact language used as we're getting snippets from the Netflix doc mostly now with new info:

Someone mentioned on another forum that it was strange that the first thing Lee said was he had to let the dog out to relieve itself when he got home, but why would he think that? If he thought Amanda was home safe why would he think the dog wasn't let out to go pee? Did he know she was incapacitated in some form to not let the dog out? Maybe he said this after knowing she was deceased but he still wouldn't know how long she was deceased for to worry about the dog getting let out?

There is film footage from LE I believe in the doc that showed the lab did pee on the floor in the house. So seems there were accidents, I think someone upthread asked that.

I am trying to find the video of the dog too to show it's size in relation to being tripped over, as mentioned upthread also. For now I have this pic:

 

[FromGermany1]

Amanda and her husband called in (not sure exact agency name in Calgary) and had his sister's kid or kids taken away, as sister was on drugs at the time. The sister was harassing Amanda (or both) with multiple phone calls, Amanda IIRC noted in her journal the sister didn't like her and never liked Amanda. I believe Amanda was scared of her in some form.

He went to his mother's approx 7hrs away I think it was. His father passed away a year before or so and was helping mom go through stuff at the house. Amanda was supposed to go but changed her mind at the last minute because of the migraine.

My comments/JMO: IF she actually had a "migraine" or maybe didn't want to play 'happy couple' with any family if they were fighting or any tensions. Only a few people would know Amanda didn't go and was home alone.

That's a question many people are asking. Personally, depends on a couple's communication style. I've gone away with my kids and not phoned their dad at all over a couple days. My partner probably wouldn't check up on me lol... not funny but that irks me about my partner!

IIRC pants were down to knees or just above knees. Could've been done to humiliate or a red herring for LE to think SA or maybe Amanda was about to go pee and someone came in made her go to the kitchen to talk/confront - but no idea where bathroom is in relation to kitchem

*RSBM above: I can try to answer some questions from what I recall

Thank you for your answers, verrry helpful!

 

[FromGermany1]

Ok so I’ve watched the doc and a few observations

The sister had a strong motive as both Amanda and husband had called in child services as she was a heavy drug user and resulting child taken into care.

Although the husband came across as caring this does not explain him not asking for a welfare check or checking himself on his wife or why the phone cut off for 44 hours.

The neighbours said they had heard a disturbance dog barking which was unusual then a second neighbour saw a man unknown running away yet nobody called LE or went over to investigate? Weird

The amount of blood and her not trying to get back upstairs makes me think she was knocked out for hours whilst bleeding profusely and this caused death. No brain injury was recorded. The CSI team mentioned it was the worst scene they had seen in terms of blood.

Still can’t explain the phone, knocked chair trousers or the animals behaviour.

All JMO

Any further thoughts?

Thank you, very helpful!