CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[otto]

Came across this:

Calgary woman’s death re-examined in crime series ‘Unsolved Mysteries’ - Calgary | Globalnews.ca

People from around the world will get a deep dive into a Calgary woman's puzzling 2015 death, when it's featured on Unsolved Mysteries later this month.

globalnews.ca

 

[otto]

Found it! Info that previous owner posted: The hole isn't that big. Its literally about 15" by 30" When I bought and sold that house, both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side. It looks worse than it really is. Yes its open but you cant fall through that hole the way you think.

Again, take with a grain of salt!

Thanks for finding that.
A child could fall through a 15" x 30" space.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Came across this:

View attachment 526510

Calgary woman’s death re-examined in crime series ‘Unsolved Mysteries’ - Calgary | Globalnews.ca

People from around the world will get a deep dive into a Calgary woman's puzzling 2015 death, when it's featured on Unsolved Mysteries later this month.

globalnews.ca

2 to 4 inches??? Those are big. They sum this up to 'falling down the stairs injuries'... I get it... but why all on the head? Nothing on neck or ears? And the 3x1.5" perfectly spaced triple scratch/lacerations there, like what?? Looks like from one of those garden claw tools or something comes to mind. How can stairs create those 3 spaced out wounds?

I think there was another object used and piggy bank was an after thought to make look like an accident somehow.

 

[otto]

2 to 4 inches??? Those are big. They sum this up to 'falling down the stairs injuries'... I get it... but why all on the head? Nothing on neck or ears? And the 3x1.5" perfectly spaced triple scratch/lacerations there, like what?? Looks like from one of those garden claw tools or something comes to mind. How can stairs create those 3 spaced out wounds?

I think there was another object used and piggy bank was an after thought to make look like an accident somehow.

I'm wondering that as well. There are a lot of injuries all over her head for a fall down 9 steps. The stairs appear to be carpeted, which should have protected her from deep cuts to her head.

It's hard to believe that she did that to herself, especially since the phone is several feet away from the stairs. Dog yelped, phone disconnected - then what. It doesn't makes sense.

 

[Normancita]

Looking at the autopsy sketch of her head lacerations, I am MORE CONVINCED THAN EVER that this is foul play.

A fall down the stairs should mean spontaneous lacerations on face, head, ears, neck, etc….but the steps were carpeted and there are only 7 or 8 CARPETED steps after the landing.

There is more to this story that needs to be uncovered.

 

[otto]

.


I suddenly thought that if the whole basement had been rebuilt, additional wall put up or something like it, well, sometimes no one bothers to rewire the new structure. Not only because it is expensive, but IMHO, no one wants to mess up with wiring. In my office, the light is outside - if I switch it on, it lights the whole hallway, So maybe it was pitch dark and the light would be switched on inside the basement?

Stairwells typically have a light switch at the top and bottom of the stairwell. Interior stairwell railings are required per the building code. Stairwell safety is a factor in Canadian house design.

The basement looks finished in this photo, with baseboards, painted walls, unsure what's on the floor. Linoleum? Carpet like the stairs?

 

[otto]

Looking at the autopsy sketch of her head lacerations, I am MORE CONVINCED THAN EVER that this is foul play.

A fall down the stairs should mean spontaneous lacerations on face, head, ears, neck, etc….but the steps were carpeted and there are only 7 or 8 CARPETED steps after the landing.

There is more to this story that needs to be uncovered.

I switched from believing accident to having a hard time believing accident. The biggest point for me is the location of her phone and the stairs. It's too far for her to trip down the stairs from the phone location.

The accident theory seems to be tripped over the dog, dropped the phone, catapulted into the piggy bank and then bounced on her head down the stairs.

Thanks for confirming carpet. Carpeted stairs don't cause gaping wounds in the back of the head. This floorplan is from police evidence given to Unsolved Mysteries. I added number of steps and piggy bank location.

There is indeed more to this story, and I think it might relate to Amanda being kind, friendly, and supportive of those who are less fortunate. I'm curious whether she discussed the people she met day to day with her husband over dinner at the end of the day.

 

[Normancita]

I switched from believing accident to having a hard time believing accident. The biggest point for me is the location of her phone and the stairs. It's too far for her to trip down the stairs from the phone location.

The accident theory seems to be tripped over the dog, dropped the phone, catapulted into the piggy bank and then bounced on her head down the stairs.

Thanks for confirming carpet. Carpeted stairs don't cause gaping wounds in the back of the head. This floorplan is from police evidence given to Unsolved Mysteries. I added number of steps and piggy bank location.

There is indeed more to this story, and I think it might relate to Amanda being kind, friendly, and supportive of those who are less fortunate. I'm curious whether she discussed the people she met day to day with her husband over dinner at the end of the day.

View attachment 526527

Thank you for the diagram marking the steps.

From a physics standpoint, how are these injuries even possible, both in number and severity?

As you mentioned, Otto, perhaps someone saw an opportunity and took advantage of her kindness.

If this is actually foul play, it seems personal: LOTS of lacerations, pants pulled down, isolated/trapped in the basement….yet, no digital evidence of a connection to the potential perpetrator.

There are soooo many transients in the area and people doing drugs in the alleys. She was coming and going on Friday/Saturday to the ‘herbalist.’ Was she being watched and noticed by someone not personally known to her, making it a crime of opportunity?

My other thought is that there are sooooo many lacerations. There’s LOTS of anger there, if this is a homicide. Who had the motive to hurt her? Who in Amanda’s circle would do this or have connections to a henchman who’d be willing to do this for payment (money, drugs, or settling a debt)? Could be someone very close to her. Hmmmm…

 

[otto]

Thank you for the diagram marking the steps.

From a physics standpoint, how are these injuries even possible, both in number and severity?

As you mentioned, Otto, perhaps someone saw an opportunity and took advantage of her kindness.

If this is actually foul play, it seems personal: LOTS of lacerations, pants pulled down, isolated/trapped in the basement….yet, no digital evidence of a connection to the potential perpetrator.

There are soooo many transients in the area and people doing drugs in the alleys. She was coming and going on Friday/Saturday to the ‘herbalist.’ Was she being watched and noticed by someone not personally known to her, making it a crime of opportunity?

My other thought is that there are sooooo many lacerations. There’s LOTS of anger there, if this is a homicide. Who had the motive to hurt her? Who in Amanda’s circle would do this or have connections to a henchman who’d be willing to do this for payment (money, drugs, or settling a debt)? Could be someone very close to her. Hmmmm…

If murder, it does seem deliberate ... from something happening while she was on the phone with her husband, to the phone being 9 feet from the top of the stairs, and the only thing she hit on the landing was the lamb piggy bank ... with her face. From the landing, there is evidence down the stairs and in a nearby corner of the basement that could be accident or murder.

Without knowing what type of pants she was wearing (e.g.: jeans, sweats), hard to say why they were down - since the theory for back of head injuries seems to be that she bounced down the stairs on her head.

I don't think the "fancy panties" should be set aside as 'red herring'. After 6 years of marriage, her husband knew that the underwear she was wearing when she died was "fancy" and not something he was used to. It stood out because it was so unusual.

Did she have a migraine on Friday, or was she driving around running errands? Both can't be true.

Amanda was kind to people less fortunate, per her obituary. She could have befriended someone with the belief that she was safe with that person. Instead, while she was on the phone with her husband - giving no indication that anything was wrong, something happened that left her bleeding out on the basement floor.

I just realized that the bottom photo is of the lamb intact, pre-incident.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Looking at the autopsy sketch of her head lacerations, I am MORE CONVINCED THAN EVER that this is foul play.

A fall down the stairs should mean spontaneous lacerations on face, head, ears, neck, etc….but the steps were carpeted and there are only 7 or 8 CARPETED steps after the landing.

There is more to this story that needs to be uncovered.

Agree. I almost forgot the stairs were carpeted! Seems very hard to get those wounds from the carpeted stairs, bannister, ledge, even piggy bank etc. unless she was doing acrobatics and spinning to hit all those things ONLY on her head. I wonder what the diagram looks like for her body

 

[Normancita]

If murder, it does seem deliberate ... from something happening while she was on the phone with her husband, to the phone being 9 feet from the top of the stairs, and the only thing she hit on the landing was the lamb piggy bank ... with her face. From the landing, there is evidence down the stairs and in a nearby corner of the basement that could be accident or murder.

Without knowing what type of pants she was wearing (e.g.: jeans, sweats), hard to say why they were down - since the theory for back of head injuries seems to be that she bounced down the stairs on her head.

I don't think the "fancy panties" should be set aside as 'red herring'. After 6 years of marriage, her husband knew that the underwear she was wearing when she died was "fancy" and not something he was used to. It stood out because it was so unusual.

Did she have a migraine on Friday, or was she driving around running errands? Both can't be true.

Amanda was kind to people less fortunate, per her obituary. She could have befriended someone with the belief that she was safe with that person. Instead, while she was on the phone with her husband - giving no indication that anything was wrong, something happened that left her bleeding out on the basement floor.

View attachment 526539

Thanks for the photos.

Regarding the piggy bank…how could she have hit that object and only that one object with such incredible force as to leave fragments in her head, yet everything to the right of the piggy bank is undisturbed?

If an accident, wouldn’t at least some of the adjacent items have fallen into the stairs?

 

[otto]

Did she trip over all that stuff on the landing, try to grab the railing, crash her head into the ceramic lamb, and tumble?

 

[Normancita]

Did she trip over all that stuff on the landing, try to grab the railing, crash her head into the ceramic lamb, and tumble?

Completely possible….but how did the black and red object hanging off the edge of the ledge (yellow arrow) remain in place?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

So hypothetically let's say another object other than piggy bank was used for those back of the head wounds... It didn't happen in the kitchen, nor the stairs - the attack would have to be in the basement where there seemed to be spatter on the wall by base of the stairs(?) but no DNA!

So hear me out. If someone was in her face in the kitchen and AA scurried down the stairs, could there have been a struggle on those stairs? AA tries to go back UP the stairs, culprit does a forehead/head smash on the piggy bank to daze her from behind AA while AA is trying to get UP stairs, pushes AA down stairs where she lands at base of stairs.

Is is possible an attacker was actually on the bottom couple stairs and maybe used an object on AA while she was incapacitated lying at base of stairs? Some hits to the head to stop the struggle? So attacker still wasn't officially in the basement but on the carpeted stairs. Hence no DNA in basement since attacker didn't need to go there. IIRC it looked like spatter by base of stairs but I'm foggy.

 

[otto]

Thanks for the photos.

Regarding the piggy bank…how could she have hit that object and only that one object with such incredible force as to leave fragments in her head, yet everything to the right of the piggy bank is undisturbed?

If an accident, wouldn’t at least some of the adjacent items have fallen into the stairs?

Given the location of the ceramic lamb before and after the death, how did she hit that by accident or murder.

According to police, the ceramic lamb/piggy bank was not touched. Dust was not disturbed. The ceramic lamb dented the wall from the impact of Amanda's head hitting it. The exacto knife next to the lamb is untouched before and after.

Did she trip over the yellow bag on the landing? Is that a soccer ball in the bag? Sports equipment on the landing?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm curious about the fancy undies.

Hypothetical thinking, JMO: let's say the undies were for someone else, maybe she didn't have another man over to her house. I wonder where she all went that day? I'm sure LE knows all her movements or any meet ups in the day right?

Maybe she was with someone briefly in the daytime (didn't take her phone knowing hubby might snoop locations, etc.) and she was seen by a mutual friend or this got back to a friend or family of the hubby's so they came by later to confront AA and call her on it?

Pulling the pants down to say they caught her kinda thing. I feel like LE would be able to track those movements, however they did state in their initial press release from 2015 they were seeking public assistance in tracking the final days of AA, so maybe they don't know all where she went and who she was with?

 

[otto]

Completely possible….but how did the black and red object hanging off the edge of the ledge (yellow arrow) remain in place?

Nothing else fell down the stairs.
We almost need an animation showing how this is possible. Someone upthread suggested that it might have happened while she was walking upstairs. I can see how that might happen, but then she has to tumble backwards after ramming her head into the ceramic lamb to get the injuries on the back of her head. The force needed? Slipped on the step?

Where is the dent in the wall behind the ceramic lamb? Does it tell us whether she hit it from above, or while walking up the stairs?

 

[Normancita]

Given the location of the ceramic lamb before and after the death, how did she hit that by accident or murder.

According to police, the ceramic lamb/piggy bank was not touched. Dust was not disturbed. The ceramic lamb dented the wall from the impact of Amanda's head hitting it. The exacto knife next to the lamb is untouched before and after.

Did she trip over the yellow bag on the landing? Is that a soccer ball in the bag? Sports equipment on the landing?

View attachment 526543

Maybe I’m crazy but I feel like tripping over the yellow bag would have pushed the piggy bank off the ledge. It’s almost like Lalacasbah mentioned, it seems she’s have to be going UP the stairs to hit and smash off the face of the piggy bank.

Do you have a picture of the dent? What’s the angle? If it’s straight back, then she would have to have fallen from the kitchen into the “hole,” to hit the bank at that angle, no?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Nothing else fell down the stairs.
Where is the dent in the wall behind the ceramic lamb? Does it tell us whether she hit it from above, or while walking up the stairs?

View attachment 526545

RSBM: A bit off topic of your post sorry, but you have the pic I was looking for here

That pic with the base of the stairs and black thing in the corner, does it not look like spatter between base of stairs and that black thing? Someone could have stayed on that bottom step, hunched over to administer head wounds with an object if she was laying there on the ground. IIRC that's the only really 'spatter' I noticed from the pics/footage in that spot.

 

[otto]

So hypothetically let's say another object other than piggy bank was used for those back of the head wounds... It didn't happen in the kitchen, nor the stairs - the attack would have to be in the basement where there seemed to be spatter on the wall by base of the stairs(?) but no DNA!

So hear me out. If someone was in her face in the kitchen and AA scurried down the stairs, could there have been a struggle on those stairs? AA tries to go back UP the stairs, culprit does a forehead/head smash on the piggy bank to daze her from behind AA while AA is trying to get UP stairs, pushes AA down stairs where she lands at base of stairs.

Is is possible an attacker was actually on the bottom couple stairs and maybe used an object on AA while she was incapacitated lying at base of stairs? Some hits to the head to stop the struggle? So attacker still wasn't officially in the basement but on the carpeted stairs. Hence no DNA in basement since attacker didn't need to go there. IIRC it looked like spatter by base of stairs but I'm foggy.

I don't recall blood spatter on the basement walls, I do recall blood smears.

We know she was on the phone with her husband when something happened. The dog yelped, the phone was disconnected. The phone was found on the floor of the dining room. Stairs are roughly 9' away. Animals may have moved phone, but not necessarily. Animals were probably afraid of the smell of blood - not playing with phones.

If someone was in the house with her, either she was too stunned while on the phone to utter a word, or she knew that person was in the house.

There were questions about whether there were other footprints, and whether the blood was smeared to obscure that evidence.