CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #1

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I was just looking to see if there have been any unsolved or well known murders in the past in Hamilton/Ancaster. I must apologize as I really don't know the local history. I came upon a "paranormal" sight which is quite sensationalistic but wanted to post these two cases. I've followed them up with links which are a bit more "tame". I have to wonder if Ms. Gleave could have been touched by any of these horrible murders and harbored a secret that she might have been prepared to tell. In each story, there are a number of Jane Does or unidentified people. Does the song, "Amazing Grace" have any connection to these deaths? I'll do some further research tomorrow:

http://www.burlingtonghostwalks.ca/mystery.htm

Evelyn Dick - Black Dahlia Murderer In Hamilton

"In 1946 she was arrested for murder after local children in Hamilton, Ontario found the torso of her missing estranged husband. The head and limbs had been sawn from his body and evidence that they had been burned in the furnace of her home later surfaced. She was convicted of the murder in 1946 and sentenced to hang. However, lawyer J.J. Robinette appealed her case and won an eventual acquittal. However, in the meantime, the decayed remains of Evelyn's baby boy were found encased in cement under the floor boards of her home. She was convicted of the murder in 1947 and sentenced to 11 years in prison. Evelyn was released from prison in 1958 and quickly disappeared from public view. A series of serial murders started again shortly after her release where torso's of bodies were showing up in fields in different parts of Hamilton. No suspects could ever be found of the murders and the victims were never identified due to the heads and arms were missing. To this day, the mysterious murders are still unsolved."

and

"...Karla Homolka sought psychics to conduct an exorcism or whatever it would take to get rid of ghosts in the basement of her home where Leslie Mahaffy was dismembered. In 1993, Patrick received a frantic call on his office answering machine from a woman who needed someone to conduct an exorcism. The name that was left said, "This is Karla Homolka, Pleassse Call Karla!, I need your help!" This article later mysteriously disappeared and was wiped from the newspaper's archives. There is no record of Karla's Ghosts or Hauntings and over 1,000 court pages documenting her experiences are said to be sealed and locked away from the trial evidence. Just what are in those pages of her psychic sessions? Some of the sealed court documents are believed to include details of Karla's haunting experiences including performing Satanic Rituals and drinking human blood ...."

[photo of original article shown]

more at link


Also:

http://www.factualtv.com/documentary/The-Notorious-Mrs-Dick

‘She was a femme fatale, she was the Mata Hari, the person we most loved to hate, or hated to love, or something like that... but in most peoples eyes she was a horrendous murderess.' So begins the story of Evelyn Dick, sentenced to hang for the murder of her streetcar driver husband, John Dick. She was acquitted on an appeal that launched the career of Canada's most famous criminal lawyer J. J. Robinette. Evelyn eventually served 11 years of a life sentence for the murder of her infant son whose body was found encased in cement during the investigation of her husband's murder. Then with a new identity, she disappeared.

And:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Mahaffy

"Leslie Erin Mahaffy (July 5, 1976 – June 16, 1991) was a teenaged female student, resident of Burlington, Ontario, Canada, who was murdered by serial killers Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka...."

and

"....Homolka, a veterinary technician, had access to sedative drugs which were used to subdue Mahaffy, the same technique the pair used in the rape of Homolka's sister six months before; the drugs used to murder and rape the 15 year old child...."

more at link

(I need to look at some sweet photos of kittens and puppies after reading that and before going to bed)
 
I don’t think I’m the only one confused by the terms that seem to get interchanged. Sexual assault and sexual component . I’m not sure what exactly the difference is but to my mind one doesn’t seem to equate the other.
On the diff between her body being discovered either inside the house or outside. I’m wondering if this might have started out to be an attempted theft of her Camaro and there was a confrontation in the garage. Thereby, one might say inside, another might say outside?
I’ve also been thinking about the following possibility. A was a Master bridge player. I’m wondering if she played bridge on-line against other players in a “chat” room type site. There are boxes you can type into and over many months or even years of playing against/with the same people. Maybe she made arrangements to meet and the person turned out to be a horrible nut case.
I know, I’ve been accused of having an over active imagination before.
 
<snip>

Audrey was referred to by her ex-husband as "protective of her private life because she lived alone". I didn't interpret that Audrey "made sure" the two friends didn't meet ... it was simply a stated fact that they hadn't. I have a variety of friends, some of whom I would not dream of putting together based on differences in personalities.

The regular Wednesday coffee get-together was a group of retired Westdale
teachers. It is understandable that she would not invite others to that specific group.

Thanks for the info. I took the friend stuff a different way, but your interpretation makes more sense.
 
Seems we have conflicting info on whether Audrey was found inside/outside, whether items were/weren't taken. Am wondering if LE is intentionally trying to muddy the waters somewhat:

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/308663--a-complicated-vicious-killing

There are items missing from Audrey's house, he says. What they are, he won't say. Valuables? Trophies?

Some items have been found during the ground searches. He again won't say what they are and adds detectives do not know for sure they relate to the homicide.
<bbm>

PS: I've been very, very negligent with the "Thanks" button these days in the various threads as i'm zipping around too much, too many places, and hope it is not interpreted as discourteous. Goes without saying that anyone who is here, whether we all agree or not, is trying to help ... and for that, we can all be thankful. Surely we can find an emoticon for "Blanket Thanks". :)
 
Lily--I believe someone, maybe even you, commented that she took up bridge on-line as no one was sharp enough to beat her. I don't think your theory is off base at all.

Heather Thompson of Oregon who was murdered last August also had an online presence. She sold Tarot type "readings" via Ebay and through an online psychic site. She was on line with a client just hours before she went missing. She told the client she was going with a friend to another town on a day trip but there's really no evidence that she went. Her body was found a couple of days later but there are still lots of mysteries and questions, and it's been over 5 months. Heather also had a beloved shepherd, Louie, who was always at her side. Heather's vehicle was also towed even though LE stated that her body was found in the house (or property, depending on the source). We have a long thread about her murder and even one of her former "clients" on board. The client has said that Heather was very friendly and open and probably shared more than she should have. She was not hard to trace at all, for any of us. She was extremely trusting. FWIW, Heather was only 39 and quite attractive--not that it should matter.

I realize that Ms. Gleave was quite the opposite as far as privacy but it is entirely possible that someone she met through the internet attempted to contact her. That might be why she was so upset about her email address getting out. She might have had a sense that someone was stalking her.

I asked, way upthread, if anyone knew if Ms. Gleave ever called police for help or if she took care of matters herself. Would she have reported frightening or threatening emails? That could be pertinent.
 
I just checked and can't find who made the comment about bridge. Lily posted that she'd given up playing with people and preferred the on-line play, per a friend's comment. Maybe I surmised that that was due to her skill.

Anyway, while looking for the bridge comment, I came across this. Another "splitting hairs" comment about the sexual assault/component:

http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...en-senior-killed-101231/20101231/?hub=SWOHome

Dec. 31, 2010

"Investigators said Gleave probably didn't know her attackers, and the crime may have been sexually motivated."

Granted, this was very early on but the "sexual component" is already there. Are they meaning her clothes were removed, that there were injuries or some sort of hate crime as mentioned upthread related to her sex? A word scrawled nearby about her sexual identity or her orientation?

I'm also flummoxed as to how the police can be so darn certain that Ms. Gleave did not know her attacker/s. That theme has been there since the very first day. How do they know this? What are some possibilities which could lead them to this conclusion?

As an example; I'm a middled aged Caucasian woman--very light skinned and very petite. If I was out somewhere (how I wish) and standing with a large number of large and boisterous black men (including two known well by LE), I guess police could wonder if I knew them. They might watch me for a moment and be a bit surprised when each reached over and gave me a kiss. Well, they're my sons!!

Ms. Gleave taught school for many years. No doubt she taught kids of different races, with different interests, of different sexual orientations. I just don't see how the police can make this statement, over and over, with such certainty. Being that she didn't have children, could the crime have been committed in such a way as to point to very young people? Possibly then they might say she wouldn't have known her attackers. I find it very perplexing. Or are they far more knowing that we grasp and just throwing that out there? Is the person someone quite close?

I'm going to assume from everything I've read that local LE have every reason to have been respectful of Ms. Gleave. She surely doesn't seem to have a record or run-ins with the police. That said, I'm brought back around to one of my first thoughts...some sort of occult ritual connected with the holidays and the nearby cemetery. No doubt, LE would immediately see her as an unfortunate victim who got pulled into some sort of evil by no action of her own....other than maybe walking outside at the wrong time.
 
In Post #25, I linked to this site:

http://www.myspace.com/hauntedhamilton

That story, and a number of others is on that site. There's also some links upthread to the graves at Stenabaugh (some are as old as the mid 1800s while other are recent) and links to paranormal and frightening events at the Ancaster Pet Cemetery. Seems like this area is know for some spooky goings-on.

The reason I initially brought it up is that strange occult gatherings surely occur with great regularity in older cemeteries. I think it's most definitely of concern. That was one of the reasons I wondered if Ms. Gleave had ever mentioned to friends that she had to run people off who cut through her property to the cemetery or if she allowed the dogs to "move" people along.


ETA: Here's the link again to the cemetery's graves. I was looking for any person who died on or about 12/27 and found a two year child who died in the 1960s. This is horrible but we have a number of threads concerning occult practices and rituals and grave robbing around certain "high" dates. The 27th is not known to me to be one of those days, but Christmas is. I use three separate ritual date calendars available on the internet. The fact that there was a lunar eclipse, electromagnetic "break", and meteor shower that week also ups the ante as far as being a high risk time for cemeteries. These are subjects of which I knew nothing a few years ago. Researching the disappearance of Randy Leach of Kansas led me down these paths. I don't care if the people are "dabbling" or serious practitioners of satanic acts, if violence takes place, the practice comes under scrutiny for me. Here's the link:

http://www.interment.net/data/canada/ontario/wentworth/ancast/stenabaugh/stenabaugh.htm
 
My aquaintance and friend to LV and A. met up today. On something totally unrealated. I said my "group" just had a couple of questions

On if there is a basement.
Where were the dogs, kitchen, basement, barracked, she said they aren't exactly sure for that particular period.

A.'s body was discovered OUTSIDE the home but Suzy didn't know for sure where. ie: garage, back porch, front, driveway by pond etc. [/B]


It did not appear that there had been any theft of items from the home.

I'll surmise the perp did not get in the house at all. I'll leave it for you to figure out why she would go outside, did she leave the house via vehicle and come home to discover someone in the garage? on the property?
So many questions, so few answers.

I have thought from the beginning of the investigation whether the dogs and AG's car would provide LE with valuable clues. IMO I've wondered why the car was removed for forensic testing unless something was obvious to investigators. It is highly likely that a door leads from the interior of the garage into the home. If AG entered the garage and locked the door behind her, the dogs would not have been able to defend her. Is it possible that AG was on her way out and was attacked just as she got into her car? Or perhaps she was just coming into the garage after running errands. This heinous crime may have taken place inside the garage and thus that's where her body was discovered.
If AG was in the house and not planning to go out, then it would be reasonable to think that the dogs would be given free run. They were her companions, family and source of protection. If Audrey in fact was expecting someone and therefore placed the dogs elsewhere, then the police theory of a random attack does not fit. This would mean that she was anticipating someone's visit but that's unlikely. I wonder if the garage door had a remote control or had to be opened and closed manually. I think that the garage, the car and the absence of the dogs to protect her are significant clues.
 
A bit of intriguing trivia. The woman who wrote that ghost story about her brother did grow up in the area and has a MS page. She also has two children. The writer would have been about 15 when the story was first published as I see a 1987 date on it.

One of her children shares the same first name with Ms. Gleave.
 
Going back to the "Amazing Grace" issue, I just realized that the song, when abbreviated, has the same initials as Ms. Gleave and her former husband. I know that's a stretch but could it have been a signature tune of hers or even theirs? She seemed to like patterns and puzzles and sounds a bit like her.

And it was the former husband, AG, who initially made the comment about Ms. Gleave's "paranoia". I think others just repeated the comment:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/308374--who-was-audrey-gleave

Jan. 3, 2011

&#8220;She was obviously very, very intelligent,&#8221; said AG, who now lives in Sturgeon Falls.

The retired teacher was the only child to eastern European parents. Her father died and her mother &#8220;disappeared,&#8221; AG said.

Gleave was &#8220;paranoid&#8221; because she lived alone, he said. In fact, she did not want many people to know her e-mail address and had stopped communicating with his brother after he might have disclosed it, he said...."

I wonder what caused her to stay in contact with her former brother-in-law? Possibly he just passed along jokes she sent him and she got wind of it. But being that she hadn't seen her former husband in decades it seems odd that she'd stay in contact with his brother. I wonder if she continued to see other members of the Gleave family.
 
I've been thinking about Audrey's body being found outside, and have considered the possibility that she was attacked after returning from her vet's home. The timeline given by various newspeople is really confusing, though. And I assume that she visited the vet during the day, and the murderer(s) would have to be pretty bold to attack her in broad daylight.
 
According to this source, which I assume can be attributed to her former husband, Ms. Gleave married at age 32:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/308374--who-was-audrey-gleave

"...The pair met in the 1960s at McMaster University, where Gleave did her undergraduate and master&#8217;s degrees in physics. They married in 1969, the day she graduated from teachers&#8217; college. The last time AG spoke to her was in 1976 at his father&#8217;s funeral in Hamilton....."

Her former husband is quite a bit older than Ms. Gleave. I wonder if she'd ever been married before.
 
In the following video, Sgt Hrab makes reference to other individuals who helped Audrey out with the property. He doesn't elaborate, other than to say she met these individuals through dealing in the community.

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/308663--a-complicated-vicious-killing

We know Audrey kept in touch with some of her old acquaintances. Anyone know if Audrey would have been a member of the McMaster Engineering Society? One of their cheers/songs is "more beer, more beer" sung to the tune of Amazing Grace:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ing+grace"++mcmaster&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
 
Interesting thought, SB. Her former husband studied chemical engineering but I haven't seen anything linking her to engineering. The papers which are thought to be hers (linked to upthread) are definitely about physics.

And I'd think that her friends would have mentioned a silly song rather than the traditional one. A friend of mine pointed out that Amazing Grace is really not connected to Christmas. I hadn't really thought about that. Is it sung during the holidays in Canada? Once again, though, I think what we're seeing is a real attempt at kindness and social appropriateness with a bit of quirkiness thrown in.

Concerning "Amazing Grace", it's a common choice for funerals. Our daughter sang it a cappella at the memorial for one of our baby granddaughters. We sang it at her side while she passed as her middle name was Grace. I believe it was the midwife who starting humming it and we all joined in. A few days later it seemed appropriate to have it open her Circle of Love memorial.
 
Interesting thought, SB. Her former husband studied chemical engineering but I haven't seen anything linking her to engineering. The papers which are thought to be hers (linked to upthread) are definitely about physics.

And I'd think that her friends would have mentioned a silly song rather than the traditional one. A friend of mine pointed out that Amazing Grace is really not connected to Christmas. I hadn't really thought about that. Is it sung during the holidays in Canada? Once again, though, I think what we're seeing is a real attempt at kindness and social appropriateness with a bit of quirkiness thrown in.

Concerning "Amazing Grace", it's a common choice for funerals. Our daughter sang it a cappella at the memorial for one of our baby granddaughters. We sang it at her side while she passed as her middle name was Grace. I believe it was the midwife who starting humming it and we all joined in. A few days later it seemed appropriate to have it open her Circle of Love memorial.

Certainly not a traditional Christmas song in Canada or anywhere else i'm aware of. Yes, more funereal if you will, and as i said earlier, it is typically associated with deep emotion and loss.

Could be Audrey had Auld Lang Syne and Amazing Grace links saved in her favourites or a playlist, and just hit the wrong song title under the As. As much of a stickler as Audrey seemed, with not being well, she may have made a slight error she would not normally have made.

There was a scientist by the name of Grace Murray Hopper (MA in Math and Physics) who was nicknamed "Amazing Grace". Her bio indicates she was the first programmer on the Navy's Mark I computer:

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

ETA: For some reason, you may have noticed earlier that Wikipedia links are tossing in a lot of visual trash in the link to their site. I had the same thing happening with this post, but found it works if you delete the "http://" part and substitute "www." Don't know why it works, but it does :)
 
First, a disclaimer. I know nothing about computers. Nothing. I use a little Mac and do nothing other than type and research and try to keep wine from spilling on the keyboard. I even had all movement turned off so as not to trigger seizures. That said I found this and wondered if this could have been Ms. Gleave (using her maiden name) posting a question. I've read that she was quite skilled and don't know if this is a simple question or a more involved question. The timing is interesting. Any ideas?

http://forums.adobe.com/message/3048925
 
I have to quote Lynne," That's our Audrey". Good catch on the Amazing Grace and A. G. !!!!!! I am so starting to understand this lady. I wish I had the opportunity to know her, as per the Beckett and Glaves photos of her in which they incaptioned A as making comments about people being "stupid" , undoubtely A would have found me "stupid" but I probably would have adored her anyway.


Going back to the "Amazing Grace" issue, I just realized that the song, when abbreviated, has the same initials as Ms. Gleave and her former husband. I know that's a stretch but could it have been a signature tune of hers or even theirs? She seemed to like patterns and puzzles and sounds a bit like her.
 
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