CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #1

[LilyMacBloom]

. I use a little Mac and do nothing other than type and research and try to keep wine from spilling on the keyboard.

LOL! that's why I like you! :great:

 

[dotr]

I wonder if LE thought it was a stranger who attacked AG, because there was in fact a rtobbery or attempted robbery ?

Former Sedgwick County Sheriff Gary Steed estimated that he worked on 100 homicide cases over the years, but only a handful involved true stranger killings.

One case that sprang to mind, he said, was the Aug. 30, 1979, murder of North High School teacher Robert Temple and his wife, Letha. They were shot to death in their home at 739 N. 119th St. West.

Steed said the murders occurred as detectives were investigating a string of burglaries in the area.

"Eventually when you start looking at those you say, 'This burglary is similar to that burglary, and that burglary is similar to that burglary.'... We actually solved it (the murder) by working backwards through all the burglary cases."

Two 16-year-olds who were implicated in the burglaries were charged and convicted of the murders.



Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2010/07/11/1399184/wichita-has-higher-than-average.html#ixzz1B4GW3JNN

 

[Snoopster]

First, a disclaimer. I know nothing about computers. Nothing. I use a little Mac and do nothing other than type and research and try to keep wine from spilling on the keyboard. I even had all movement turned off so as not to trigger seizures. That said I found this and wondered if this could have been Ms. Gleave (using her maiden name) posting a question. I've read that she was quite skilled and don't know if this is a simple question or a more involved question. The timing is interesting. Any ideas?

http://forums.adobe.com/message/3048925

OT....as long as it is red wine, then that's o.k. missizzy!

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder if LE thought it was a stranger who attacked AG, because there was in fact a rtobbery or attempted robbery ?

<snip>

I'm going to ramble dotr, and maybe you can make some sense of what i'm thinking (not sure that I can )

There are property crimes and personal injury crimes, but sex crimes seem to stand alone with a different motive. Sexual assault does not normally factor in when the primary goal is robbery. A murder could be either primary or secondary (if during a primary motive of robbery the murder was accidental, or intentional to eliminate the victim as a witness). IMO, a vicious murder that includes any sexual aspect just doesn't factor into simple robbery.

Probably not much is typical when we're looking at deranged individuals, but to me, in Audrey's case, the sexual component seems like the PRIMARY motive. It was totally unnecessary in order to carry out the other aspects of the crime (if robbery or murder were the primary goal). If items were taken, i believe they were taken as an afterthought by an inexperienced perp or perps who thought they could lead the investigation astray by making it appear to be a robbery gone bad.

JMO ... for now

 

[Hazel]

The builder guy has spoken. He said it looks to be under-house access. He said that he's actually surprised that there isn't a basement given the climate in the area. He also pointed out that homes built in the mid-70s were notorious for cutting corners as construction costs were so high at the time.

If you look at the 2nd picture in post # 7 of this thread you will see a window well which indicates some kind of basement.

You're absolutely right VB, that certainly is a basement window steel enclosure (maybe even two?) After the snowfall, it is hardly visible, but it's behind that plank. There could be a second one a bit to the left as well. On closer inspection, I believe there are two basement windows there. The one on the right hand side has some kind of wood placed on top, so is more visible in the picture with the snow.

I am just playing catch up, so apologies if this has already been discussed

 

[Hazel]

From:
http://www.brantnews.com/news.cfm?page=news&section=read&articleId=9566

"Police are searching three buildings on the property and the surrounding area." Hrab said.

I wonder where the other buildings are in relation to the house. Can't see any of them on Google Earth, and only see the house and one other outbuilding in that pic that Hazel posted. Also, was Audrey's property substantial acreage? Google Earth shows the cemetary to the east, and a very long lane/drive to the west of Audrey's property, but no buildings are visible. Just thinking if that property to the west is vacant land, it is possible the perp(s) arrived by vehicle from that direction.

SBilly, the three buildings this article is referring to is not part of Audrey's property. Is about the search LE conducted on the abandoned farm, where the homeless man was known to live in. Will try find the link of the map I posted, showing the location of this barn in 347 Lynden Rd.

Oh, something else: That "rectangle" you see in one of the pics I posted of Audrey's property, is NOT an outbuilding, I believe there is nothing there .... If you click on the video link I included, you will see it is just part of a FILE label that was overimposed by whoever made that video clip. It was 'caught' by me at the time I did the screenshot, LOL, sorry about that.

OK, here is the link to the post with link to MAP of that FARM and outbuildings. You can also see where Audrey's home is located in relation to that farm.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5962980#post5962980

 

[dotr]

http://www.davidcanter.com/uploads/differentiating stranger murders.pdf
The Instrumental (Opportunistic) Crime Scene theme
Behaviors in the Opportunistic Victim theme had a distinct theme of opportunistic
victims being targeted, such as women and old age pensioners. Actions within this
region centered around property of value being stolen, at the victim's premise.
Injuries were in¯icted manually, emphasizing that the power inherent in a weapon
was not needed to incapacitate the victim. The injuries were located around the
neck (possibly because the variable ``manual'' included strangulation) and the face
was hidden. There was also a sexual element to this area, at the top of the region,
and victims here were left partially undressed and sexually assaulted. These cases
would be de®ned as cases where the o&#128;ender used the victim as an object through
which to attain an ulterior motive such as money or sex.

 

[Sillybilly]

SBilly, the three buildings this article is referring to is not part of Audrey's property. Is about the search LE conducted on the abandoned farm, where the homeless man was known to live in. Will try find the link of the map I posted, showing the location of this barn in 347 Lynden Rd.

Oh, something else: That "rectangle" you see in one of the pics I posted of Audrey's property, is NOT an outbuilding, I believe there is nothing there .... If you click on the video link I included, you will see it is just part of a FILE label that was overimposed by whoever made that video clip. It was 'caught' by me at the time I did the screenshot, LOL, sorry about that.

OK, here is the link to the post with link to MAP of that FARM and outbuildings. You can also see where Audrey's home is located in relation to that farm.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5962980#post5962980

Thanks Hazel. The article was a touch ambiguous and I misinterpreted because the comment was made after a statement about Audrey being found. Hope i didn't cause any confusion.

 

[Hazel]

Couple of mild observations ... in one of the overhead pics, there appears to be the roof of a shed or something in a clump of trees, where the white vehicles are parked and the paved drive ends.

.

snipped by me for brevity

SB, I made a new screenie, this time I took the screenshot right before that label appeared. I think that is what you were refering to, right? bottom left of picture?

this is the link to video so you can see the FILE label appearing around mark 00:46 .....again sorry for the confusion

http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110105/gleave-memorial-murder-110105/20110105/?hub=SWOHome

now it's here, now it's not -- By the way, it appears to me there is yet a second pond on the other side of Audrey's driveway.

 

[Missizzy]

So red wine is OK for Macs? I'm in deep trouble then as I drink Chardonnay. Seven years in Sonoma County got me hooked forever. I do my best though. I guess I'l have to chalk it up to occupational hazard.

Not many people have the perk of being told to drink two glasses every night by their neuro. A terrible job but someone's gotta do it. I'm tough and I'll follow doctor's orders. LOL

Any ideas or reactions to that forum post by a Doveika?

 

[Hazel]

There are items missing from Audrey's house, he says. What they are, he won't say. Valuables? Trophies?

Some items have been found during the ground searches. He again won't say what they are and adds detectives do not know for sure they relate to the homicide.

My interpretation of this quote is that LE found "items" during the ground searches ... they are not saying the RECOVERED those items, so at that time they didn't know if those "items" belonged to Audrey or the murderer(s) or had anything to do with her murder.

I do however wonder how did LE know items were taken from Audrey's house?

I also noticed there is a ladder resting on the garage's roof in this pic. Maybe it has nothing to do with the crime, and was left there by the handyman while cleaning up the eavestrough?

source for quote and image: http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/308663--a-complicated-vicious-killing

This other article contains video clip where we see LE going in and out of the Garage ... hmmm ... IMO something is up with that garage, either point of entry or where the attack took place.

Watch the video: http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/308663--a-complicated-vicious-killing

 

[Missizzy]

Not being able to watch video, Hazel, your photos have been invaluable. Thanks so much for taking the time to post them. ITA, something took place in the garage.

As to the valuables, I've wondered from the beginning how anyone would know. Ms. Gleave seemed to be a collector and as far as we know only the handyman ever regularly went in her house. According to reports, he had a key. Maybe he was familiar with her things and reported what he thought might be missing. I think I said upthread that he might have built a display cabinet for her or installed a safe. They seemed to talk quite a bit and even though she was private, she seemed to be very close to him and enjoy teaching him about plants, etc.

Does anyone know if he works for others in the area or ever brought helpers to the house? Does he run a home repair business or was it more informal? Ms. Gleave might not have even known others were there working if she was gone.

 

[dairydog]

I am sure that LE was able to collect lots of forensic evidence at the scene of the murder. We hope that they will have the killer's DNA or other forensic clues. Apparently the Toronto lab is working hard to get their reports to LE. Surely they would enter any evidence into the database of the various police forces in addition to the RCMP. Perhaps this killer has a prior record and would therefore be entered into one of these databases. Perhaps this is a long shot or wishful thinking. I would bet that LE is investigating any registered sex offenders or predators who reside within close proximity to AG. Unlike in many states, in Canada the public does not have access to a registered sex offender database. It is also understandable why LE does not release more details of the horrific injuries sustained by this poor soul. They would not want to compromise their investigation or jeopardize a future trial if this monster is apprehended. Since the police released almost immediately that there was a sexual component involved, it would appear that this aspect was readily noticeable when they viewed the body. This could mean that poor AG's clothes were missing or strewn about. IMO, the sexual component may not have involved the actual sex act as we would consider it but some other form of horrific sexual invasion. I can think of other sexual components that may have involved objects or mutilation. I don't want to be misconstrued as putting out morbid scenarios but whatever this fiend did would enable LE and criminal profilers to develop an insight into this killer's makeup and MO. The police said that the main motive here was not robbery and I'd have to agree. A robber's objective is theft of valuables and not horrendous murder although some victims have been killed when confronting or surprising the thief.
We still don't know if this monster targeted AG although police believe this to be a random attack. This was a horrific and brutal murder with the killer exhibiting tremendous rage. I also think that this may not be the first time that this killer struck. There could be other victims in the past. I just hope and pray that he is caught before there are more victims as chances are great that he'll strike again. This killer is undoubtedly a psychopath and sadly these creeps are often difficult to catch since they operate without a conscience.

 

[Sillybilly]

I am sure that LE was able to collect lots of forensic evidence at the scene of the murder. We hope that they will have the killer's DNA or other forensic clues. Apparently the Toronto lab is working hard to get their reports to LE. Surely they would enter any evidence into the database of the various police forces in addition to the RCMP. Perhaps this killer has a prior record and would therefore be entered into one of these databases. Perhaps this is a long shot or wishful thinking. I would bet that LE is investigating any registered sex offenders or predators who reside within close proximity to AG. Unlike in many states, in Canada the public does not have access to a registered sex offender database. It is also understandable why LE does not release more details of the horrific injuries sustained by this poor soul. They would not want to compromise their investigation or jeopardize a future trial if this monster is apprehended. Since the police released almost immediately that there was a sexual component involved, it would appear that this aspect was readily noticeable when they viewed the body. This could mean that poor AG's clothes were missing or strewn about. IMO, the sexual component may not have involved the actual sex act as we would consider it but some other form of horrific sexual invasion. I can think of other sexual components that may have involved objects or mutilation. I don't want to be misconstrued as putting out morbid scenarios but whatever this fiend did would enable LE and criminal profilers to develop an insight into this killer's makeup and MO. The police said that the main motive here was not robbery and I'd have to agree. A robber's objective is theft of valuables and not horrendous murder although some victims have been killed when confronting or surprising the thief.
We still don't know if this monster targeted AG although police believe this to be a random attack. This was a horrific and brutal murder with the killer exhibiting tremendous rage. I also think that this may not be the first time that this killer struck. There could be other victims in the past. I just hope and pray that he is caught before there are more victims as chances are great that he'll strike again. This killer is undoubtedly a psychopath and sadly these creeps are often difficult to catch since they operate without a conscience.

<bbm>

ITA dairydog ... and at times can be those who appear to be above reproach, a la convicted former colonel, Russ Williams.

 

[Missizzy]

SB--I think you nailed it. Given that we know that rage is often exhibited against one who is perceived to have wronged, slighted, or harmed the attacker at some point, I am left wondering if someone in this bucolic little town isn't hiding in plain view.

I know that the police say the murder was random and carried out by a stranger. If we take that as truth; it couldn't be family, friends, employees or past students. That would mean that a roving psychopath/slasher/murderer/sexual assaulter is on the loose and I don't get the sense that everyone is up in arms and terrified about that. Not like the elder Texas ladies were when the Twilight Rapist was on his 2 year binge. To me, those two positions seem contrary to one another.

The only two possibilities that I'm left with are that the police are being circumspect so as to not frighten the attacker while they watch him/her as they know that the person is indeed someone Ms. Gleave knew. Or that the murder was occult related with a sexual component and it was clear that Ms. Gleave had absolutely so part in participating but was an unfortunate victim. If the latter is the case, the police might well be aware of and watching some suspects.

Something dawned on me during the night. Was the cake that the handyman attempted to deliver (made to the ex-husband's recipe) ever located?

 

[Missizzy]

I've been very carefully going over our posts again this morning and making some notes. SB mentioned something upthread that I discounted. He brought up the McMasters Engineering Society. I didn't think that it would be pertinent as Ms. Gleave was involved with the study and teaching of physics. I checked it out carefully, though, as she surely might have joined being that she had such a wide area of interest in a variety of subjects ie. computer skills, bridge, botany, math, etc.

I was a bit surprised to see a very familiar name there. To be a member, one must be or have been a student at McMasters. I don't see Ms. Gleave's name on the many sites connected with this group but she was involved, IMO, in a round about way. A person very close to her is a member in good standing and is well published for such a young person. Not at all what the public has been led to think about this person. I just found it extremely surprising to see a name we know well. Might be nothing but sure seems curious.

I'm wondering if any of the articles and studies this person was involved with might have put Ms. Gleave at risk. Could that be why she was so concerned about her email address? As I've said before, I am more than a bit scientifically challenged. Maybe someone else can spend some time and check this out.

http://dailynews.mcmaster.ca/story.cfm?id=5164

http://mes.mcmaster.ca/media/council/minutes/0910/091021M-SAGM.pdf

 

[dotr]

Trying to find a similar type crime to see what type of person might do this,I noticed one right below this thread.I guess I have never really explored WS!
FWIW
Glen Cove Stunned by Murder of Horrific Proportions
Retired Teacher Killed in Cove Landing
http://www.antonnews.com/glencoverecordpilot/2006/08/25/news/

 

[eachandevery]

Trying to find a similar type crime to see what type of person might do this,I noticed one right below this thread.I guess I have never really explored WS!
FWIW
Glen Cove Stunned by Murder of Horrific Proportions
Retired Teacher Killed in Cove Landing
http://www.antonnews.com/glencoverecordpilot/2006/08/25/news/

Wow! Horrific isn't a strong enough word for this one. Thanks for digging up this case, dotr.

 

[Missizzy]

I'd never read about that crime. Lord help us. That was horrific. So, a close neighbor who hadn't really brought attention to himself. One has to wonder, though, if the deceased woman had any dealings with Marshall. Possibly she'd firmly told him to leave her alone (she was a special ed teacher, after all) or she might have been friendly (special ed teacher again). What a grisly crime. That poor family.

I was especially bothered by mention of the previous intentional hit and run. I have a dear friend who is the director of Crime Victims United. His child was killed in this manner. The young killer wanted to "see what it felt like to kill". The little girl was struck and killed directly in front of her grandparents' house on her way home from school. The young man was a high school student from a well known local family with no record. But his journals and comments to classmates showed that he'd been thinking of this for a long time. One has to wonder with Marshall, if these two crimes were the only ones. I'm glad they are carefully checking his previous addresses. FWIW, Marshall only got 30 years. That really shocked me:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...kin_rip_30year_term_for_denice_fox_kille.html

Thank you, dotr, a lot to think about. And you are not the only one to still be discovering the nooks and crannies of WS.

 

[annalyzer]

I have read some on this case but not all. Question - where were the dogs found when the body was discovered? So scary to think you're not even safe with two large dogs for protection.