CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[Sillybilly]

With the body being buried so quickly, did LE do a post mortem? I don't see how there would have been time.

If not, why didn't LE insist on a post mortem despite what anyone's wishes were?

hwow:

Just the other day in my rummagings, I saw that an autopsy was done the day after Audrey was found. That's reasonable.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

sillybilly - really......the same day!

Who would have given the go-ahead for that? LV?

 

[Sillybilly]

Just a reminder on the house sale - it was transferred to LV (by way of the Will, which had to happen before LV could sell it) and sold to the buyer on the same day.

If the offer to buy was conditional, those conditions had to be satisfied and signed off on before the agreed closing date. If an unconditional offer was made - even better. All that had to happen was the transfer made to LV. Seems there was a coordinated effort there - not a big deal - LV would most certainly want to unload this responsibility.

A death certificate would have been issued in short order - faster than the house transfer - and given to the next of kin or appointed executor in order to deal with financial affairs etc. That death certificate would give all access to all known accounts, investments, insurance etc etc etc - the person would not be expected to deal blindly with only what was current. LE would need a court order to freeze anything - maybe they did and left $50K to deal with the estate. But, if any outstanding loans could be established there was every reason to list that in the probate docs.

It's been a long time since I did anything with Wills in Ontario, so memory is pretty foggy here. IIRC, it wouldn't be even necessary to have a separate transfer to LV at all (whether as Executor or in her personal capacity). Immediately upon AG's death, LV became the representative of the Estate of AG by the powers given by law to the Executor who makes the decision. I believe it would only involve the registration of one transfer only, directly from "Estate of the late AG by her Executor LV ... to <the buyers>"

ETA: And that transfer would be supported by a copy of the Death Certificate and a copy of Letters Probate showing that LV had the authority to deal with the transfer.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

sillybilly - really......the same day!

Who would have given the go-ahead for that? LV?

Go-ahead for what? The autopsy or the house sale?

I was addressing the autopsy, conducted the day after death (no delay there and LV had no say whether it would occur ... that's up to the Coroner, not LE, and is a standard requirement in cases such as this).

If you are referring to the transfer of the house to the buyers, no big surprise there either ... only a registration of the Transfer of title (couple of pieces of paper). I don't find the speed of the transfer unusual ... but moreso that a young couple would so interested in the property so quickly after such a horrific crime.

 

[dotr]

O/T, but had to post lol.. (Crayon on Gnome violence)..
http://www.cbc.ca/news/offbeat/story/2012/11/01/hamilton-hess-village-halloween-fight.html
A man dressed as a crayon was arrested after assaulting a man dressed as a gnome at a Hess Village bar Thursday morning.

Around 1 a.m. police were called to the Lazy Flamingo about a disturbance.

A man dressed as a crayon had punched a man dressed as a gnome in the face on the club's patio, police say"

 

[Sillybilly]

Oh, that's priceless dotr :floorlaugh:

"Wednesday nite only ...
The Great Crayola and Grobnick Face-Off at The Flamingo".​

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Go-ahead for what? The autopsy or the house sale?

I was addressing the autopsy, conducted the day after death (no delay there and LV had no say whether it would occur ... that's up to the Coroner, not LE, and is a standard requirement in cases such as this).

If you are referring to the transfer of the house to the buyers, no big surprise there either ... only a registration of the Transfer of title (couple of pieces of paper). I don't find the speed of the transfer unusual ... but moreso that a young couple would so interested in the property so quickly after such a horrific crime.

Go-ahead for the post mortem. I meant!! Thanks for the info.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh, that's priceless dotr :floorlaugh:

"Wednesday nite only ...
The Great Crayola and Grobnick Face-Off at The Flamingo".​

:lol: I just put Crayolas on my shopping list because I want to scribble out some landscaping for the Spring!! :lol:

 

[Woodland]

For whatever reason, the route was ownership of the house to LV and buyer - 2 transactions on the same day.

 

[Sillybilly]

For whatever reason, the route was ownership of the house to LV and buyer - 2 transactions on the same day.

That's unusual because ... with LV as the Executor, had she also been the beneficiary to receive the house for her own use, she would have had to have it transferred from "LV as Executor of the Estate of AG" to "LV in her personal capacity". To just go from the Estate directly to the new buyers, she would not have to have done that extra step, as she already had the legal power to deal with the direct transfer on behalf of the Estate.

Dunno ... it would not have negated the transfer .. it just wasn't necessary. Perhaps it was done without a lawyer as we suspect might be the case with the LWT itself.

Maybe it was all DIY for the monetary aspect ... lawyers charge a % of the total value of the estate. Could have been quite a chunk with an estate of $500G

Speaking of value of AG's estate ... do we know if she had life insurance?? If so, any monies from that would bypass the estate and lawyers and go directly to a specified beneficiary. Remember my recent post about the woman who found out her CIL had taken out a $2 million policy on her without her knowledge?? HMmm?

ETA: Just a quick google indicates that a person's consent is normally required if a policy is being taken out on them (except in the case of a minor child), but that the info can be forged. Surely there is some central registry within the insurance industry where this information can be obtained. Will check into that. IF AG herself had arranged life insurance, there should be something in her old bank records wrt monthly payments to keep it in force. To find out if a policy was taken out fraudulently by someone else on AG's life, then maybe the Insurance Bureau of Canada could steer someone in the right direction. Regardless, I doubt any insurance company would be paying out quickly on AG's demise, given the circumstances.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry if i'm kinda talking with myself here on the life insurance issue ... just want it out there for the record:

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2008/05/15/f-lostmoney-lifeinsurance.html

... The Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association knows that policies sometimes go missing. So the association's OmbudService will, on request, contact its dozens of member companies to conduct a policy search.

The CLHIA insists on two basic requirements: 1) There must be a reasonable basis to believe that some policy does exist (i.e. no fishing expeditions); and 2) Specific factual data about the deceased is available (in other words, they won't search for a policy for a cousin who lived out west somewhere).

But even before you contact them, the association has some useful hints that could help you find that policy without having to conduct an industry-wide search (see shaded box).

If you've done your due diligence and still haven't found anything, you can download a Request for Policy Search from the Canadian Life and Health Insurance OmbudService website ...

Seems at least LE should be able to find out if they are so inclined.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

For whatever reason, the route was ownership of the house to LV and buyer - 2 transactions on the same day.

I find this really odd. I'm an only child and when my parents passed I was given everything. That said, I still had to go through lawyers, banks, insurance, etc. I sold my parents' house fairly quickly but certainly not in a day or two.:waitasec:

In the event of my passing first, everything would have gone to my husband. I recall my husband and I spending a great deal of time in lawyers' offices and in banks sorting out the money.

I find it strange that AG's passing (and the house/money.etc.) being settled so quickly.

Is there something we don't know??

hdear:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Woodland:

Just a reminder on the house sale - it was transferred to LV (by way of the Will, which had to happen before LV could sell it) and sold to the buyer on the same day.



Sold to someone else on the same day?

hone:

 

[Woodland]

The transaction for the transfer and the sale happened on the same day, however 3 months had passed to set this up.

SB - maybe the same thing happened when your parents passed? As a formality - a transfer to your name and then a buyer all contained in one set of docs for the sale?

 

[Sillybilly]

Quoted from Woodland:

Just a reminder on the house sale - it was transferred to LV (by way of the Will, which had to happen before LV could sell it) and sold to the buyer on the same day.



Sold to someone else on the same day?

hone:

None of that is irregular ... "sale" is more of a real estate term, not the legal term for the actual transfer of title. Basically, even if there was a transfer from the Estate to LV and then a transfer to the Buyer, the transfer documents are all done up ahead of time, just taken to the Registry / Land Titles Office on the same day, and simply registered in the proper order to legitimize the ownership for the buyer. It's just a paper trail that has to be registered in the proper order. For example, had there been a mortgage involved that had to be discharged, a discharge of that mortgage would also have to be registered in the proper order before the transfer to the buyer, so even one more document that would have had to be registered before clear title actually could transfer to the buyer, but ALL of those documents would be part and parcel of the same conveyance on the same day.

Other than me questioning why the extra step that was taken, IMO it is NOT an irregularity ... just an extra step.

FWIW, I did some conveyancing years ago in law firms and have my Title Searching Certificate. Can't remember much about it because it's been so long, but I SWEAR there is nothing wrong with what I've seen in the above.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Wait a minute. I'm just catching up here and digesting all the recent posts. Woodland said that the house was transfered to LV and sold on the SAME day! :what:

That gives me pause:

- so a willing buyer was waiting in the wings?

- how did this willing buyer KNOW that the house would soon be up for sale?

- was the willing buyer tipped off by the killer?

I'm not questioning Woodland's info. I am merely dazed and confused.

:wave:

 

[Sillybilly]

Wait a minute. I'm just catching up here and digesting all the recent posts. Woodland said that the house was transfered to LV and sold on the SAME day! :what:

That gives me pause:

- so a willing buyer was waiting in the wings?

- how did this willing buyer KNOW that the house would soon be up for sale?

- was the willing buyer tipped off by the killer?

I'm not questioning Woodland's info. I am merely dazed and confused.

:wave:

Okay ... but i don't understand why you keep bolding the phrase "and sold on the same day" if you aren't questioning it.

WRT your other questions, AG's death was highly publicized and it was purchased by a young couple whose parents live in Ancaster.

HTH

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Okay ... but i don't understand why you keep bolding the phrase "and sold on the same day" if you aren't questioning it.

WRT your other questions, AG's death was highly publicized and it was purchased by a young couple whose parents live in Ancaster.

HTH

:blushing: Sorry, I tend to use bold as much as I use icons.

Many apologies.......................:doorhide:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This past Friday, I had to drive to the Hamilton area for work. As soon as I saw the bridge all I could think of was Audrey. The water looked cold and dark. It gave me the chills.

Where/who is her killer? Why can't he be caught? What are LE doing......anything? Is the perp in jail on a 'minor infraction'? Is he out there walking freely?

I'm having a moment...........

:twocents:

 

[dotr]

Another curious case of a "private" woman.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/a...ed-off-woman-s-body-from-shallow-grave-police
She died more than two years ago and nobody, save the person who was supposed to be caring for her, knew.

She was left outside for several days, according to a court document, before being buried in a shallow grave on a rural Stoney Creek property. The spot was never marked, never visited.

She never had a funeral or an obituary.

Little is known about Shirley Treadwell’s life, but her death has been the centre of a police investigation since this summer."