CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[patchtimes]

Hi all,

Wrote a post earlier, not sure what happened to it. My internet can go off and on out here in the middle of nowhere, so maybe it got lost when I pressed the send button. Although I was responding primarily to a post by No Stone Unturned and that seems to be gone too. No big deal really, just not sure how this site operates exactly.

Just to answer a question that I made note of in my missing post: the wife never told me about the state of the garage and I felt it would be disrespectful to ask. But because she was already telling me quite a bit about the house, I am sure she would have mentioned if there were still stains from the crime. I have a feeling that they were cleaned before she took possession of the home. Or it's possible that there was not much blood although I don't really understand how that could be the case if Audrey was the victim of multiple stabbings.

The other thing I mentioned in the missing post (maybe it's pending and will turn up soon?) was in regards to the hoarding/collecting thing. I'm not suggesting that we blame the victim, as of course she should not be held responsible for her horrible death. And also it doesn't make sense that someone would kill her for being a hoarder so sure, it could be irrelevant. However, I don't think it's a good idea to dismiss the hoarding/collecting thing altogether: it might not mean anything at all, but if she did indeed know her murderer, then details about her life and her behaviour might lead to him. I truly believe that her hoarding instincts imply that she was afraid, and perhaps has been afraid, for a long time. Which fits in with what she told her brother in law.

I had also mentioned in my last post that I'm not sure I can offer much more in the way of information, as I feel I said all I know. I might take a break, not because any of you have made me feel unwelcome, but because this is getting me all worked up and I couldn't sleep last night because I was thinking about the case too much. Since I have young kids, not sleeping is not an option! I'll check back over the next few days to see if there is anything I can answer, but anything from here is really speculation as the few details I know I've already told you. I hope you can do more with this information than I ever could.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

My response to Patchtimes was removed also. In that response, I was simply trying to say that this case is not about the look of the floors or the cleanliness of the overhead lighting/lamps in Audrey's home.

I'll shut up now about it all. The state of the house as reported by this friend of Patchtimes, I mean. I'll not shut up about finding Audrey's killer.

Man, this case really does take the cake............

:twocents:

:scared:

 

[Sillybilly]

I have a feeling that they were cleaned before she took possession of the home.

<rsbm>

patchtimes, do you happen to know when the new owners took possession of the property?

Thanks !!

sb

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Questions for Patchtimes:

Did the new owners ever see INSIDE the house before it was cleared of clutter? It seems to me (from your posts here) that they must have been inside the house prior to the house being cleaned out/de-cluttered.

Were there signs of a struggle? Blood stains anywhere? Overturned furniture? Pulled out drawers and stuff tossed about? Anything expensive looking that struck the new owners (paintings, antiques, etc.)? Or was the house basically a pile of junk not worthy of salvaging anything (oh Lord, I hate myself for typing that bit!!:blushing? Other than the Camaro, were Audrey's belonging completely worthless.....even to Habitat For Humanity or Goodwill or the Salvation Army?

I'm having a terribly difficult time thinking that Audrey's home and the things in it were worthy ONLY of the junk pile.

Oh dear............:bang:

 

[LeftCoaster]

:wagon: Hi Patchtimes, and welcome aboard this thread. I for one am hoping that you will stick around and understand that, for all our persnicketiness while Audrey's murder remains unsolved, we're a dedicated lot, and glad to have fresh perspectives. I've snipped and bolded some parts of your posts to respond properly (in the lingo, "RSBM" = "respectfully snipped by me," and "BBM" = "bolded by me").

...I would be happy to be verified by the website, although I'm not sure how to do that? I'm new to this site really, I only learned the lingo (ie; LE) by reading some of the posts. I'm also not sure if I could, as I really do only have secondhand information although if it's possible, I will. I understand that you're suspicious that I could be some bored person in Kalamazoo.

Salem and Kimster have helpful posts about the process and criteria for being verified here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Rules Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters

My own feeling is that your input is more along the lines of a "local," as it's second- and third-hand information, but that in no way takes away from its relevance to our amateur sleuthing or interest in what you have to say. Still, as Stone has suggested, you might want to look at being verified. Another poster on this thread has been helpful with "friend of a friend" info, and as far as I know isn't a verified insider.

Wrote a post earlier, not sure what happened to it. My internet can go off and on out here in the middle of nowhere, so maybe it got lost when I pressed the send button. ...

Sometimes, if the mods are alerted to sensitive information, posts have a way of vanishing. We've had some trouble with entire threads on this case being pulled for review, as you might or might not know, because speculation has gotten out of hand and had impacts on the personal lives of individuals connected to Audrey's murder. As time goes on, it's been pointed out, the line has been blurring between what we know for certain and what we think we might have seen or heard somewhere, not sure where, let us look it up, etc. There are some favoured theories and some that are not as popular. Depending on where you fall in this continuum, developing a thick skin is highly recommended.

[The] wife never told me about the state of the garage and I felt it would be disrespectful to ask. But because she was already telling me quite a bit about the house, I am sure she would have mentioned if there were still stains from the crime. I have a feeling that they were cleaned before she took possession of the home. Or it's possible that there was not much blood although I don't really understand how that could be the case if Audrey was the victim of multiple stabbings
. . . I hate to say it, as many of you seem protective over Audrey, but the house itself was not in good condition. ...And I think it is worth considering, and I will tell you why. Hoarding/collecting is often the result of some trauma that has happened, and a defense mechanism against something that makes the person frightened. They are protecting themselves with things. Yes, I am getting a lot of this from the tv shows and am not an expert, but this often appears to be the case. To me, Audrey hoarding suggests there was a prior trauma in her life, and remember she told her brother in law that she felt she would be raped and murdered. Perhaps the murderer was someone involved in this past trauma and came back?. . . It could be irrelevant. However, I don't think it's a good idea to dismiss the hoarding/collecting thing altogether: it might not mean anything at all, but if she did indeed know her murderer, then details about her life and her behaviour might lead to him. I truly believe that her hoarding instincts imply that she was afraid, and perhaps has been afraid, for a long time. Which fits in with what she told her brother in law.

I see your point, Patchtimes, and think it's as good as anything any one of us has come up with. Obviously, it doesn't lead directly to solving the case, but it's possibly an element. Perhaps your friend could give us some much-desired insight into the layout of the house, as some of us have wondered about the presence of a mud-room between garage and kitchen, and other aspects of the scene. Collecting, hoarding, potaytoe, patato - it's been posted before that Audrey prioritized her many interests and (ahem) pastimes over housework. What I appreciate is your theories around the why of accumulating 'stuff' - for somebody who guarded information about her past as Audrey did, to then surround herself with it, so to speak, is an interesting quirk.

I had also mentioned in my last post that I'm not sure I can offer much more in the way of information, as I feel I said all I know. I might take a break, not because any of you have made me feel unwelcome, but because this is getting me all worked up and I couldn't sleep last night because I was thinking about the case too much. Since I have young kids, not sleeping is not an option! I'll check back over the next few days to see if there is anything I can answer, but anything from here is really speculation as the few details I know I've already told you. I hope you can do more with this information than I ever could.

Again, thanks for contributing what you have, Patchtimes, and I think I can speak for most of us on this thread, in saying I hope you will be back soon - or better yet, bear with us. And don't lose sleep!

HTH (Hope That's Helpful)

LC

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh and another suggestion for Patchtimes:

I have NO IDEA :blushing: how one does this.....but by contacting a Mod/Admin person here I think you can become a "Verified Insider" for a certain case.

Just a suggestion while I was thinking about it.......

:rockon:

-----------------------

ETA:

Ooooopsy, I see LeftCoaster just gave you info about becoming a Verified Insider. (My bad.....)

 

[Sillybilly]

Collecting, hoarding, potaytoe, patato - it's been posted before that Audrey prioritized her many interests and (ahem) pastimes over housework. What I appreciate is your theories around the why of accumulating 'stuff' - for somebody who guarded information about her past as Audrey did, to then surround herself with it, so to speak, is an interesting quirk.

My grandmother would have put Martha Stewart to shame. Then, lo and behold, at the grand age of 62, she discovered Art (no, not the neighbour Arthur but oil painting and watercolours). Housework fell by the wayside, brekkie/lunch/dinner happened when it happened, pics taken of her in jeans and a lumberjack shirt instead of housedress and apron.

At Audrey's age, she didn't have to have an excuse for why she chose not to be The Queen of Clean. IMO, she was a cerebral individual, and probably just found housework boring as hell compared to her other interests.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

I see KD, one of the realtors in the purchase/sale of Audrey's home, is posting in a somewhat scathing fashion over on the Find Tim Bosma FB page:

http://www.facebook.com/events/635646136465008/

Sheesh ... God talking one minute and telling peeps to "GTFO" the next.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

SB, I don't do FB so I'll take your word for it. Sounds like a piece of work!!

:twocents:

:scared:

 

[patchtimes]

SB, I don't do FB so I'll take your word for it. Sounds like a piece of work!!

:twocents:

:scared:

Emotions are running high here in Ancaster right now. <modsnip> She went to high school with TB, as did many of my own friends. We're all reeling today, and have been for the past week.

 

[bessie]

Please continue at the new thread.

Canada - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community