CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

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I feel the same as Chorley does - the ONLY date I feel certain about it the final coffee group meeting Audrey had. It was in a public place with other people around her and with her. So, that seems certain.

The rest of it......even Jon Wells' articles......give me many questions regarding timelines.

:twocents:

-------------------

ETA:

And another example of "young and close". Until proven otherwise, I'm sticking with 'young and close' in Audrey's case.

http://www.cp24.com/world/teen-accused-of-killing-parents-3-younger-children-1.1122402
 
WOW, one day after Audrey's body was found poor DLS was facing murder charges. He was certainly set up, I'd say. As always, I could be very wrong about that.
<rsbm>

Your comment made me realize the timeline really needs clarification related to DLS. The article I took the info from stated arrested the afternoon of Dec 30 and facing 1st degree, but that's wonky because I then recalled he was arrested the day before on Dec 29 (the knife/bank incident). He was in jail and became a "suspect" after Audrey was found Dec 30, but was not formally charged until after his later arrest at the laundromat.

I'll do some more checking to get those details accurate and repost the timeline (can't edit it now)
 
What's even MORE wonky is that DLS was in jail (quite possibly) when Audrey was murdered!! :what: And then LE had the nerve to arrest DLS for murder.

Something really stinks here...............:waitasec:

-------------------------

ETA:

The Arrest Of An Innocent Man

Here's the link to the story of DLS and his timeline:

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/02/12/man-charged-in-sex-slaying


<<< David Laurie Scott, 50, was barely out of Brantford jail when he was arrested Thursday afternoon for the murder of the retired Hamilton-area teacher.

Scott was picked up without incident at a Brantford laundromat by Hamilton police. He appeared in a Hamilton court Friday and was charged with first-degree murder.

Scott had been released from Brantford jail Wednesday morning after serving more than 40 days on a weapons charge.

He had been arrested on Dec 29 when found with a knife in his waistband as he visited the washroom of his bank. >>>



I wonder which "member(s) of the public" told LE about DLS? The killer? Possibly.......
 
January 5 2011 was when it was initially reported that Audrey visited the vet a couple of days before Christmas:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309093--friends-remember-audrey-gleave



September 19 2011 was when it was reported in Jon Wells' article that she visited the vet the afternoon of December 27:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues







I am more inclined to rely on JW's relating of the timeline, just because the initial reporting by Nicole O'Reilly may not have been as well researched as Jon Wells' articles 8 months later, after all the intense investigative legwork he seems to have engaged in.

JMO


I think he changed his tune. In Jon Well's new book, "Death's Shadow: True Tales of Homicide", he says that AG took the dogs to the vet on Dec 22.

Link to extracts from "google books":
http://books.google.ca/books?id=HziYhdTxhE8C&pg=PT7&lpg=PT119&dq=john+wells+murder+audrey+gleave
 
DRAFT TIMELIME (revised)

Note: The only entries revised are those that relate to DLS and I am confident they are now correct.



Feb 6 1937 Audrey was born Otte Wilma Dovieka to Antanas (Tony) and Marie Dovieka. Tony was an engineer at Greening Wire Co

1950s ???? Audrey changed her name as a teenager and didn’t get along with her mother

1953 Audrey married her first husband whose name is unknown

1957 – 1964 Sometime during these years, in her 20s, Audrey was married to Larry Blake who worked at Stelco. The lived on Fairleigh Av South

1960 Audrey worked at Bell

1964 Audrey enrolled at McMaster University

1964 Audrey met Allan Gleave (Audrey was 27, and Allan 6 yrs her jr, so 21 y.o.)

1964 – 1967 Sometime during these years, Audrey worked 2 summers at AECL nuclear laboratories in Chalk River

1966 Audrey graduated with a BSc from McMaster and started working on her degree in physics. She did not complete her Masters but would go on to be a high school science teacher, first at Hill Park, later Barton Secondary and then Westdale

1967 Article titled “Compendium of Thermal Neutron Capture Ray Measurements” published showing “A. Doveika” as one of the authors

Aug 1967 Audrey was featured in Hamilton newspaper re building her own tv. The picture showed a wedding ring on her finger which she supposedly wore even when single

1969 Audrey and Allan married at Salvation Army Chapel on James St North. Allan’s mother Marjorie threw a party for them. They lived for a while with Allan’s parents. Early in their marriage, Allan and Audrey lived on Alma Lane in Ancaster, then built a big home on Indian Trail, which Allan designed. Allan’s brother, David, was a pilot and flew the two of them up north into the bush to camp for a week. They travelled to Europe for three weeks. She talked about having kids.

1974 Marriage to Allan fell apart. Allan met a younger woman at his karate class. He signed the house over to Audrey. He took a job as a chemical engineer in Sturgeon Falls. He and his new wife never had kids.

1976 Allan’s father died. Audrey attended the funeral and chatted briefly with Allan. Although Allan had made prior trips to Hamilton each year to visit his parents, it was the last time Audrey and Allan ever spoke, although she maintained contact with his brother David G.

1980 Approx year that Audrey met Lyn V, and veterinarian Dr. Collins

1994 Dr. Collins retired

2001 Allan Gleave retired

2003 DLS caused a disturbance in a Henry Street coffee shop when he pulled a steak knife he had concealed in his clothes. A patron talked him into trading the knife for a cigarette. When police arrived, Scott yelled obscenities at them.

2004 Approximate year that PK met Audrey while he worked at Windmill Power Equipment in Dundas (number of years PK says he knew Audrey has varied in different reports, so this year is not confirmed)

2006 Audrey retired

Feb 3 2007 Audrey's Last Will and Testament signed and witnessed at Brantford, Ontario

May 2010 Q Restaurant opened. This is where AK worked prior to acquiring SavingT in 2012

June 2010 PK and AT married

Nov 2010 Approx mid to late November, Audrey's mailbox was smashed

Nov 2010 Approx time Audrey had new convection installed

Dec 22 2010 Audrey attended her weekly coffee meeting with former colleagues

Dec 23 – 25
2010 Sometime during these days, PK received email from Audrey that she was ill.

Dec 23 – 25
2010 Approx dates that initial reports said Dr. Dudley Collins had seen Audrey “a couple of days before Christmas”

Dec 25 2010 PK says he spoke with Audrey by phone and they rescheduled the delivery of the cake to Thursday, December 30. He says Audrey had stayed home all day.

Dec 26 2010 Audrey attended dinner at Lyn V’s home. Audrey normally went there every Sunday for coffee around 9:30 am

Dec 27 2010 early morning, PK opened his email and received email from Audrey that included the link to the Amazing Grace video

Dec 27 2010 PK received another email from Audrey timed 10:46 am re “secondary infection … cabin fever … LV bringing soup in a few minutes … coffee meeting come hell or high water …”

Dec 27 2010 According to at least one report, today Audrey cancelled her Wednesday coffee meeting because she was ill

Dec 27 2010 It is reported that Audrey visited the vet that afternoon with her 2 dogs. This date/time conflicts with initial reports that Dr. Collins saw her a couple of days before Christmas

Dec 27 2010 Audrey’s neighbour read or received email from Audrey that included the link to the Amazing Grace video

Dec 29 2010 DLS arrested for having knife in waistband while at washroom of bank

Dec 30 2010 PK drove AK to work that morning. Called Audrey to say he would be late delivering the cake. Arrived approx 11:00 am, let himself into garage and discovered Audrey's body. Called 911 and waited for police to arrive.

Dec 31 2010 Autopsy began

Jan 2 2011 Police search begins at abandoned barn and property on Lynden Rd where DLS was known to live

Jan 4 2011 Police released the crime scene at Audrey’s home. Friends and a cleanup crew spent the day cleaning out her home.

Jan 4 2011 Police also released the Lynden farmhouse scene where DLS lived

Jan 4 2011 Vigil held for Audrey at United Church, Governor’s Road, Ancaster

Jan 5 2011 Memorial Service held at 11 a.m. Wednesday at the Beckett-Glaves Family Funeral Centre on Brant Avenue in Brantford.

Jan 28 2011 “Application for Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee with a Will” signed by LV, listing personal property of $50,622.87 and real estate at $425,000

Feb 3 2011 DLS sentenced on knife/bank incident to time served plus 10 days

Feb 9 2011 DLS released from serving sentence re knife/bank incident

Feb 10 2011 DLS arrested on 1st degree murder charge in Audrey’s case

Feb 11 2011 DLS arraigned on 1st degree murder charge in Audrey’s case

Feb 22 2011 “Certificate of Appointment of Trustee” signed by Registrar

Feb 2011 Sale of Audrey's home was completed (iirc, end of February ??)

June 3 2011 DLS released on 1st degree murder charge after forensic evidence didn’t match

August 2011 PK was administered polygraph

Sept 2011 LE met with PK to address discrepancies in his polygraph

Nov 14 2011 Registrar signed “Certificate of Official Document” attaching a true copy of the “Certificate of Appointment of Trustee with a Will” stating that the document remains in full force and effect

Jul 21 2012 Dr. Collins passed away
 
So No Stone is it possible the reason he was released is because time of death is known to be prior to the 30th? So as you point out he had the perfect alibi.

I do hope some of you see what I am getting at with the timeline - and as I suspected the vet visit was earlier - now it is frustrating for us because no doubt LE has lots of this, various peoples activities while we have to spin our wheels- but there is a possibility, just a possibility that a large swathe of time could open up where Audrey was killed or where she could have been held, mostly likely at her home possibly elsewhere.

The one event now that might have additional witnesses (besides LV) is Audrey's supposed visit to her house on the 26th. I realize it probably happened. But just to be scrupulous whose word do we have for it and was it an event with lots of people?

I look forward to reading the book - one thing Wells did very well IMO is paint a rounded interesting portrait of Audrey - no doubt one reason some of us are here.
 
This article dated Dec 30 says:

from:
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/audrey-gleave-murder-remains-mystery-one-year-later-1.747175

The 73-year-old lived alone with her two dogs and was last seen on Boxing Day, four days before her body was found. The dogs were found confined at the home.

Presumably LV is the person who said that Audrey was at her home on Boxing Day, so why did she not mention at that time that she delivered soup the next day, Dec 27?

This article dated Jan 4 says:

from:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

Vanstone said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."
 
If I recall correctly, DLS was released (the murder one charge didn't stick) because there was NO DNA evidence to place DLS at the scene of the murder. And NO DNA related to Audrey on his knife.

And I don't recall DLS being polygraphed, however that might have happened and we just don't know about it.

Bottom Line: DLS was an easy fall-guy for both the killer and for LE.

:twocents:

Oh, and I also suspected the Vet visit would have been before Xmas day. Thankfully, we're getting some sort of timeline which makes sense.......if any of this can make sense.
 
Have you read the actual book Snoopster, because I can't find any reference in the really short excerpt at the link you provided. Thanks !

No I haven't read the actual book. It's a nuisance to scan through it, but if you tab forward about 30 pages from where the link takes you to the page immediately after the photo of Phil and Alex, and then scroll down to the part of the page you can't see you will see a paragraph that starts with "On December 22...."
 
This article dated Dec 30 says:

from:
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/audrey-gleave-murder-remains-mystery-one-year-later-1.747175



Presumably LV is the person who said that Audrey was at her home on Boxing Day, so why did she not mention at that time that she delivered soup the next day, Dec 27?

This article dated Jan 4 says:

from:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

Wow SB that is excellent staring us in the face but I don't think that has been noticed - how easy is it to forget the last time you saw a person close to you (?)- usually pretty well seared into your memory.
 
"While the motive remains a mystery, as do Gleave's movements in the days before her death, Matthews says it was not a random attack.

"The person who killed Audrey was a person who was known to her."

From the Dec. 30th 2011 article. This is an other thing i think we have overlooked - as late at this date LE is saying her movements are a mystery. If they are not obfuscating for investigative reasons this is remarkable - just in my previous posts I was taking for granted they knew lots about this.
 
Quoted from Chorley's link above:

<<< "The person who killed Audrey was a person who was known to her." >>>



I think that's quite ovbious in this case. And this makes the arrest of DLS all the more ludicrous. Audrey might have "known of him" but he wasn't "known to Audrey". There's a difference here.
 
Conclusions From The Timeline:

- LV was the last person to see Audrey alive

- that leaves the dates of 28, 29 and early 30 December a mystery

Was the killer with Audrey on the 28th and 29th?

Did anyone speak with Audrey on the phone on the 28th, 29th, 30th?

Do we have any proof that Audrey was alive on the dates I gave above?

Did her car move on any of those dates?

Why were the dogs crated and who crated them - the killer or Audrey?

Was her mail picked up or was it found in the box by LE?

????????????????????????????????????????
 
No I haven't read the actual book. It's a nuisance to scan through it, but if you tab forward about 30 pages from where the link takes you to the page immediately after the photo of Phil and Alex, and then scroll down to the part of the page you can't see you will see a paragraph that starts with "On December 22...."

Thanks anyway Snoopster .. i'll trust you on it :)

When I go to the link, no matter what i do, it will only bring up the same 2 pages related to AG. (Maybe google books dislikes me :()
 
Conclusions From The Timeline:

- LV was the last person to see Audrey alive

- that leaves the dates of 28, 29 and early 30 December a mystery

Was the killer with Audrey on the 28th and 29th?

Did anyone speak with Audrey on the phone on the 28th, 29th, 30th?

Do we have any proof that Audrey was alive on the dates I gave above?

Did her car move on any of those dates?

Why were the dogs crated and who crated them - the killer or Audrey?

Was her mail picked up or was it found in the box by LE?

????????????????????????????????????????

Well just to keep the debate going (at least in my own mind LOL) I am not sure of the soup delivery and even the boxing day visit not yet. Humouring me for the minute how far back would that push things - to well before Christmas?
 
Conclusions From The Timeline:

- LV was the last person to see Audrey alive

- that leaves the dates of 28, 29 and early 30 December a mystery ...
<rsbm>

IF LV brought the soup approx 10:45 am on Dec 27 and AG did not visit the vet that afternoon, then LV is still the last person to see AG alive, and the unaccounted portion of the timeframe begins right after LV left from bringing the soup (so approx noonish?? on Dec 27).

Did LE corraborate LV's info, i.e. did they find a full/partial container of soup, or any such soup in Audrey's system? IOW, IF the soup story can't be substantiated, then all emails on Monday Dec 27 could possibly be considered suspect. (We still don't know whether AG cancelled with her Weds coffee group by phone or email, or when she did so .. if by email, then may not have been Audrey, but could certainly have been someone who knew about her Weds get-togethers. The "hell or high water" email and the cancellation with the coffee group the same day are totally contradictory).

Sigh ... same ol'
 
Well just to keep the debate going (at least in my own mind LOL) I am not sure of the soup delivery and even the boxing day visit not yet. Humouring me for the minute how far back would that push things - to well before Christmas?

Anywhere from Dec 22 (pm?) onward, but IMO it would have to be a conspiracy between the two people who saw Audrey on a regular basis. I shall try to keep an open mind in that regard Chorley. (IOW, BOTH LV and PK would have to be lying ... because one couldn't say she'd been there Boxing Day, and the other couldn't say they talked with her on Christmas Day).

I got the impression the dogs were found in pretty good shape, but can't really see that being the case if confined for 8 days without food and water (unless "confined" only meaning inside the house). PK said it didn't appear the dogs had been left unattended for long, but without a source of food/water for that length of time, I doubt there was much to eliminate. One would think dehydration, unless moving about within the house with access to possibly toilet water.

Boy, i regret so much that Audrey was cremated, and so quickly. No exhumations in the forecast there :(
 
To add to my post ^^

I suppose it is possible that, if there was a blood spill inside the home, then LE may have arranged for a specialized clean-up crew to do a preliminary cleaning prior to friends coming inside to complete the task. In which case, PK would not necessarily have seen any doggy messes.
 
Anyone know where we originally got the idea that the Boxing Day visit was a function with others in attendance (who could corroborate)? Was it possibly just Audrey's usual Sunday morning coffee visit, said to be around 9:30ish?

On another note perhaps:

from:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as Vanstone.

Thirty year friendship and AG was holding out on this? just curious ...

You'll be pleased to know billy is going for a nap .. so i can't hog the board until after i wake up, all refreshed :)
 
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