Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[Elley Mae]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3921034/suspicious-death-of-apotex-founder-barry-sherman-and-wife-honey/

The cover on the pool could be a solar cover.

 

[gdalton]

Just jumping in after looking at the floor plans. It looks to me that if it is a murder/suicide and he killed her on another floor he would have had to manuever the body down a spiral staircase, or a regular staircase that is further away from the pool. I just can't see that happening. There is a "lift" mentioned on the floor plan, so maybe there was an elevator that he used?

Thank you for all of you that are so knowledgeable and have such interesting perspectives. This is a fascinating case and I feel for their family and friends.

The lift in the floor plans looks pretty small...almost like a dumbwaiter. Or a laundry chute.
Doesn't show up in any of the listing photos either.
Listing says "Potential for Elevator"

 

[Montrealaise]

I did some research into murder-suicides involving couples and found they had one or more of the following elements: a history of domestic violence and/or a possessive, jealous, controlling partner; separation or divorce proceedings, usually initiated by the victim; mental illness; and serious financial, legal or personal problems.

Perhaps there were issues in the Sherman' life and relationship that even their closest friends were unaware of? To the outside world, they lived a charmed life but who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

Or it could have been a double murder, carefully staged to look like a double suicide or murder-suicide.

 

[gdalton]

Here's an old article about the son Jon Sherman.
Looks like his Dad gave him a bankrupt brewery...but it only lasted a few years.
Couldn't find much else...sounds like the kids weren't interested in the family business at all.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/birth-of-a-beer-baron/article17988486/

 

[MizStery]

That’s a lawsuit, not caselaw. Also those allegations are of complete malfeasance. People right now are saying that the family could sue and I am wondering what law and facts this is based on.

Thanks for your post.Perhaps the family is using politicians Linda Frum and Justine Trudeau to reign in Toronto Police and pressure them to acquiesce to the families wishes to designate this as a criminal investigation.

I think we've also got a distraught family who won't accept double suicide or murder-suicide...and who also happen to have very highly-placed friends.
Lot of big names (friends of the family) already commenting in the media.
The family has already voiced their displeasure with leaks/conjecture from Police sources.
I'm guessing Police are going to very tight-lipped about any developments from here on.

Tighthead,perhaps LE and the media are acting on the measured 'threat' taken from families press statement & to simply comply with the families wishes.

The family released a statement, saying: “We are shocked and think it’s irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory which neither their family, their friends nor their colleagues believe to be true.

“We urge the Toronto Police Service to conduct a thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation, and urge the media to refrain from further reporting as to the cause of these tragic deaths until the investigation is completed.”
<snip>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-canadian-police-say/?utm_term=.671ea36d5ae6
[FONT=.SFUIText]
[/FONT]I apologize for quoting myself but I wanted to include the The Toronto Globe and Mail's statement that they removed the comments because of legal reasons. So they must have worried the family might initiate some sort of 'legal tangle' for them.

I think you both have made a good case that the family wishes are being followed. A case in point The Toronto Globe and Mail has removed their comment portion and replaced it with "[FONT=.SFUIText]We have closed comments on this story for legal reasons".
[/FONT]
www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/police-investigating-deaths-of-toronto-billionaire-barry-sherman-and-wife-as-murder-suicide/article37357096/[FONT=.SFUIText]
[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
:cow:
[/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText]
[/FONT]

 

[dotr]

If they had security cameras, probably would have indoor security and even if the security was turned off....security history would show any door openings and any sensors being activated through the house(in what rooms exactly) and at what time.

Actually wondering if at any point the power was turned off?
Where would the electrical panel be in the home, if someone was familiar or made themselves familiar with it, they could shutdown the house breaker and "work" unseen in the dark, or near dark.
If they do not have a generator that switches on in such an event, lights and cctv cameras would presumably turn off too..
Hydro would likely be able to confirm an event like that, imo, speculation.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I did some research into murder-suicides involving couples and found they had one or more of the following elements: a history of domestic violence and/or a possessive, jealous, controlling partner; separation or divorce proceedings, usually initiated by the victim; mental illness; and serious financial, legal or personal problems.

Perhaps there were issues in the Sherman' life and relationship that even their closest friends were unaware of? To the outside world, they lived a charmed life but who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

Or it could have been a double murder, carefully staged to look like a double suicide or murder-suicide.

I worked with a woman years ago... she and her husband were very close friends with another couple (Mr and Mrs X). They saw each other several times a week, went on vacations together all the time. Had been friends for years.

Well, one day Mr X killed Mrs X and then himself.

My coworker had a terrible time accepting it. police are wrong, they were happy, we were making plans for a trip, he would never do that... etc.

No matter how close you are to someone, you can never know what's inside their head.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[human]

It seems like Barry was pragmatic. What is pragmatic about hanging?

 

[Satchie]

Thanks for your post.Perhaps the family is using politicians Linda Frum and Justine Trudeau to reign in Toronto Police and pressure them to acquiesce to the families wishes to designate this as a criminal investigation.



Tighthead,perhaps LE and the media are acting on the measured 'threat' taken from families press statement & to simply comply with the families wishes.

The family released a statement, saying: &#8220;We are shocked and think it&#8217;s irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory which neither their family, their friends nor their colleagues believe to be true.

&#8220;We urge the Toronto Police Service to conduct a thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation, and urge the media to refrain from further reporting as to the cause of these tragic deaths until the investigation is completed.&#8221;
<snip>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-canadian-police-say/?utm_term=.671ea36d5ae6
[FONT=.SFUIText]
[/FONT]I apologize for quoting myself but I wanted to include the The Toronto Globe and Mail's statement that they removed the comments because of legal reasons. So they must have worried the family might initiate some sort of 'legal tangle' for them.

I think all those institutions: Toronto Police Service, Globe & Mail, and most of the other media, are quite aware of personal privacy laws, and normally keep a tight rein on how and what information they release, no matter who the person is.

This case was exceptional, because some media outlets used their inside police (and non-police) contacts to leak informatation that would not normally be released until after the investigation.

For example, the news about where they were found has never been released by police, that was first published by the Postmedia network, who's CEO is a longtime Toronto insider and would know all the gossip, likely spread by the real estate agent.

Anyhow, there's no need for JT to lean on Toronto agencies, they're professional organizations who don't want to risk lawsuits or scandals.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Actually wondering if at any point the power was turned off?
Where would the electrical panel be in the home, if someone was familiar or made themselves familiar with it, they could shutdown the house breaker and "work" unseen in the dark, or near dark.
If they do not have a generator that switches on in such an event, lights and cctv cameras would presumably turn off too..
Hydro would likely be able to confirm an event like that, imo, speculation.

My security systems switches to battery mode if there are electrical issues...

 

[Tighthead]

The Globe shuts down comments on any ongoing investigation like this. I&#8217;m not sure why anyone would draw any inference from that.

 

[Jennifer17]

I can't decide if it was a double murder staged to look like suicide or a murder/suicide staged to look like a double murder.

 

[liz b.]

It seems like Barry was pragmatic. What is pragmatic about hanging?

Nothing really. The only thing that comes to mind is auto eroticism, possibly after ingesting something. We will likely never really know what happened.

 

[Satchie]

I can't decide if it was a double murder staged to look like suicide or a murder/suicide staged to look like a double murder.

Or murder-suicide staged to look like double suicide.

 

[flourish]

Nothing really. The only thing that comes to mind is auto eroticism, possibly after ingesting something. We will likely never really know what happened.

Ever since I had a coworker who died that way (and whom I had a big crush on), I've wondered how common it really is. What awkward silences occurred in my office in the weeks after that tragedy.

 

[Satchie]

It seems like Barry was pragmatic. What is pragmatic about hanging?

Not sure, but it's very common. I think it would be very unusual for people like the Shermans to own a gun.

During the 1980s and 1990s, firearms (or explosives) and hanging were the first- and second-most frequent means of suicide among Canadian males,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Canada

 

[Inthedetails]

Not sure, but it's very common. I think it would be very unusual for people like the Shermans to own a gun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Canada

The guy made a fortune in pharmaceuticals. Surely he had access to some drugs.

The only thing that might make sense is that hanging is decisive, and this man seems decisive. Once you hang from the rope, there really is no backing out.

Other than that, hanging doesn't really make much sense to me.

jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

The guy made a fortune in pharmaceuticals. Surely he had access to some drugs.

The only thing that might make sense is that hanging is decisive, and this man seems decisive. Once you hang from the rope, there really is no backing out.

Other than that, hanging doesn't really make much sense to me.

jmo

I know two heroin addicts who could easily have OD, but they chose hanging.

 

[gdalton]

Actually wondering if at any point the power was turned off?
Where would the electrical panel be in the home, if someone was familiar or made themselves familiar with it, they could shutdown the house breaker and "work" unseen in the dark, or near dark.
If they do not have a generator that switches on in such an event, lights and cctv cameras would presumably turn off too..
Hydro would likely be able to confirm an event like that, imo, speculation.

Do we know for sure that there was a working security system with cameras...or is that just the assumption?
I also know that older people tend to stop using their system as they get older...find it "too complicated".

Breaker panels would be on the lower floor by the garage...probably the utility room or the separate furnace room.
There might have been a panel upstairs by the laundry and kitchen...as those appliances tend to trip circuits more often.

 

[otto]

BBM

^^^ This. The evidence must have been pretty obvious for LE to come the murder/suicide conclusion so quickly. They shouldn't have leaked it, though, without telling the family first.

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I think police have to weigh the information and the public interest. If police remained silent, the community may be afraid that a crazy person is targeting wealthy people in the Toronto area. By releasing information that there is no evidence of a break-in, and that they have not yet ruled this a homicide investigation, the public can feel safe with the knowledge that they are not the next victims.

That family is clearly upset about this information, and they do not want to believe that this could be a murder - suicide, but I doubt any family really accepts ruling ruling of suicide without carrying doubt and multiple questions related to "why" for many years.