Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[nuff]

On the subject of whether 911 is the right call to make - in Toronto, I'd say for sure yes. When my dad died peacefully in the night that's what my stepmother, a retired nurse, did even though he was clearly dead. (Paramedics came just to establish they could not resuscitate and a very young police officer had to come and stay until the coroner arrived because he died at home. By then we adult kids had arrived and the poor policeman was obviously very uncomfortable.)

 

[ldlager]

It might be a matter of local time differences., but it seems the first tweet was at 4:30 pm local Toronto time.

View attachment 217374

ETA: Maclean’s reported the tweet as being sent at 12:30 pm as you pointed out, but the link to the tweet it time-stamped 4:30pm.

“From the outset, the Sherman family’s clout and powerful connections shaped and shadowed both investigations. It was Ontario Health Minister Eric Hoskins, a family friend, not the police, who announced the Shermans’ deaths in a tweet sent at 12:30 p.m. on December 15th.”

Barry and Honey Sherman: Duelling investigations, high drama and still no answers - Macleans.ca

Ok now I’m really wondering if something isn’t right. The Hoskins tweet time stamp shows as 3.30 in one post and 4.30 in the other post. I’m not a tweeting expert, can anyone help explain please. Thank you.

 

[LadyL]

[QUOTE="casesensitive, post: 15602107, member: 80977"
Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

I think that statement was just media sensationalism. IMO the delay in calling 911 was simply due to the absence of anyone on the scene with clear authority to act, plus the need to reach MS etc by phone, to explain, to allow for shock etc. I may have forgotten, but in the end, do we know who did call 911? Is there a recording of the call?[/QUOTE]

[bbm]

no special authority is needed to call the police in an emergency IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

As noticed about many details regarding this case, there are conflicting media reports. I don’t recall KD ever disclosing the source of his 90 minute time lag.

It was a CBC reporter who conducted the interview with the viewing client’s realtor and I’d imagine some mention of time must’ve occurred, yet they didn’t report a time lag of 90 minutes at all. In their report it was “not long”. I don’t recall who actually called ever being officially verified and the 911 call has not been released. So IMO the time sequence is yet another unknown.

I’ve often wondered if the time of the real estate appointment was 90 minutes prior to the time the 911 call was made and KDs source isn’t entirely accurate. If so, it might’ve been presumed the bodies were found immediately, which was not so.

“The agent said a person cleaning the home let them in and allowed them to wait inside. A short time later, an agent representing the Shermans arrived.

They began touring the 12,000-square-foot mansion.

After starting on the main floor, they walked upstairs to see more of the massive home. The last part of the tour involved the basement pool area.......

.........Not long after they left the home, it's believed the agent representing the Shermans called 911 to report the find.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/shermans-murder-investigator-toronto-1.4878887

 

[MistyWaters]

It might be a matter of local time differences., but it seems the first tweet was at 4:30 pm local Toronto time.

View attachment 217374

ETA: Maclean’s reported the tweet as being sent at 12:30 pm as you pointed out, but the link to the tweet it time-stamped 4:30pm.

“From the outset, the Sherman family’s clout and powerful connections shaped and shadowed both investigations. It was Ontario Health Minister Eric Hoskins, a family friend, not the police, who announced the Shermans’ deaths in a tweet sent at 12:30 p.m. on December 15th.”

Barry and Honey Sherman: Duelling investigations, high drama and still no answers - Macleans.ca

Well that’s interesting. I see a time stamp of 12:50 pm on that tweet.

 

[deugirtni]

In the book, Donovan indicates that MS called BS's assistant (Mauro) just after 10am to tell her that something had happened to the couple; but yet the call to police came in at 11:43am per Donovan per police records. Also, the book indicates that the 'family', 'including the four kids', were informed over the next few hours - so it sounds like letting each one of them know about it before calling 911 is off the table, according to Donovan:

Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary, who had been looking for the Shermans that morning to arrange the showing of the house, had called Mauro at 9 A.M. She wasn’t overly concerned that she couldn’t track down Honey or Barry, just curious. A little over an hour later, Shechtman called back, her voice shaking. “Joanne, something’s happened. Something’s happened to them.”

The Sherman family, including Barry and Honey’s four adult children, were informed over the next few hours.
-----
Finally, after a delay of almost ninety minutes from the discovery of the bodies, a call was made to the Toronto Police 911 system from the house on Old Colony Road. Police records show it coming in at 11:43 A.M. Within one minute, police were en route, along with two paramedic crews and firefighters. Two officers and the paramedics entered the front door, passed under the chandelier, and quickly tramped down to the pool area. As first responders, their job was to save lives, and no care was taken to preserve the scene.

 

[human]

Since no one knew what happened and a multimillion dollar house was being shown to clients, there certainly had to some clever ideas and conversations on deflecting the possible clients. Some making nice.

Then there had to be conversation with whomever was left in the house about what in the heck.

It may have taken awhile to build up courage to go down and look. Then discussion after what they saw and what to do.

Ninety mins? Talking to each person several minutes. Maybe it would add up to ninety

 

[deugirtni]

Ok now I’m really wondering if something isn’t right. The Hoskins tweet time stamp shows as 3.30 in one post and 4.30 in the other post. I’m not a tweeting expert, can anyone help explain please. Thank you.

I think timezones may explain it. IIRC MistyWaters might be out west, while I'm in EST, - my twitter shows a time of exactly 3:30pm.


Dr. Eric Hoskins on Twitter

 

[nuff]

Ok now I’m really wondering if something isn’t right. The Hoskins tweet time stamp shows as 3.30 in one post and 4.30 in the other post. I’m not a tweeting expert, can anyone help explain please. Thank you.

AS it happens, I have a clear memory of reading about the discovery of the bodies on Twitter - Might have been from Hoskins (who was my MPP at the time) or another. Anyway, it was definitely early afternoon on that day. (Confessions of a Twitter addict.)

 

[nuff]

[QUOTE="LadyL, post: 15603936, member: 46999"

[bbm]

no special authority is needed to call the police in an emergency IMO[/QUOTE]

I meant authority from within this very high-profile family, not legal authority. Those present were basically all "hired help."

 

[ldlager]

AS it happens, I have a clear memory of reading about the discovery of the bodies on Twitter - Might have been from Hoskins (who was my MPP at the time) or another. Anyway, it was definitely early afternoon on that day. (Confessions of a Twitter addict.)

Well then it seems possible that Hoskins was tweeting about the deaths even before LE was called, if the TPS website is correct!!!

 

[HalesNTX]

There would have been little/no room for the killers to stand on the pool side of the railing to use the railing as a pulley. Don't forget, the bodies were facing away from the pool

That is an interesting point. This is just entirely bizarre.

 

[HalesNTX]

You’re right. I don’t know exactly where they were found, but I know we’ve heard they were facing away from the pool.

If they were in this circled area, the killers could be on the steps.

View attachment 216763

Sherman family investigators hand over earring and other evidence collected at murdered billionaires’ home to Toronto police | The Star

Or maybe they were restrained and a ligature was put on in the front? (Then removed like the wrist restraints.)

If something like a wide zip-tie was used, the killers would just have to apply it, wait and remove it. (Not to minimize what was done in any way.)

It looks like there is a step behind that railing. Maybe someone was in the water in the step from behind.

 

[LadyL]

I meant authority from within this very high-profile family, not legal authority. Those present were basically all "hired help."

Yes, I knew what you meant. My point still stands. I can't understand waiting 90 minutes, regardless.

 

[jaejae]

Here is another recent report about this case:

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

 

[casesensitive]

Here is another recent report about this case:

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

Thanks jaejae--an excerpt from KD's book.

 

[dotr]

Here is another recent report about this case:

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

Thanks for the link!
King and queen,holding court, jacket/mantle ?
Nov 25 2019 imo, rbbm.
"Beside him, Honey, his wife of forty-seven years, known as the “queen” of Toronto’s Jewish community, was in a similar position, the light coat she wore also pulled off her shoulders, holding her hands at her sides"

"Like a dark cloud, the news travelled through the inner circles of the Sherman family and friends, but for a few hours it was kept from the public. Then, just before 4 p.m., the story broke in the Toronto media that two bodies had been found inside the home of Apotex founder Barry Sherman. A few minutes later, a tweet went out on social media from Dr. Eric Hoskins, Ontario’s health minister, who had dealt with the Shermans both professionally and as a friend. Television crews, reporters, and photographers rushed to Old Colony Road. News travelled across the country and internationally."

"He referred to Barry as the founder, a reference to his founding of generic drug giant Apotex, and argued that there was precedence for removing or overturning a founder. Jonathon, say people who saw the email, was looking for support from his sisters, but the sisters either did not acknowledge the email or refused to go along with the plan. One of them shared the email with their father, who in turn discussed or shared its contents with others. (slight edit to remove names that are not introduced). Sherman laughed it off. One person with knowledge of the situation recalled Sherman’s remark. “There goes Jonathon, attempting a palace coup.”

The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor

 

[ldlager]

Thanks for the link!
King and queen,holding court, jacket/mantle ?
Nov 25 2019 imo, rbbm.
"Beside him, Honey, his wife of forty-seven years, known as the “queen” of Toronto’s Jewish community, was in a similar position, the light coat she wore also pulled off her shoulders, holding her hands at her sides"

"Like a dark cloud, the news travelled through the inner circles of the Sherman family and friends, but for a few hours it was kept from the public. Then, just before 4 p.m., the story broke in the Toronto media that two bodies had been found inside the home of Apotex founder Barry Sherman. A few minutes later, a tweet went out on social media from Dr. Eric Hoskins, Ontario’s health minister, who had dealt with the Shermans both professionally and as a friend. Television crews, reporters, and photographers rushed to Old Colony Road. News travelled across the country and internationally."

"He referred to Barry as the founder, a reference to his founding of generic drug giant Apotex, and argued that there was precedence for removing or overturning a founder. Jonathon, say people who saw the email, was looking for support from his sisters, but the sisters either did not acknowledge the email or refused to go along with the plan. One of them shared the email with their father, who in turn discussed or shared its contents with others. (slight edit to remove names that are not introduced). Sherman laughed it off. One person with knowledge of the situation recalled Sherman’s remark. “There goes Jonathon, attempting a palace coup.”

The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor

I also remembers that Steve Paikin, a well known TV Ontario host tweeted out just after Hoskins that the Shermans were dead, and that he had heard from a reliable source/contact that the Shermans were the subject of a pending law enforcement/prosecutorial action or similar- I can remember the exact words he used. However, I very clearly remember him tweeting that "the noose was tightening on the Shermans" in referring to this pending action. In response to widespread criticism about his phrasing and his lack of consideration for the Sherman family, he pulled the tweet and issued an apology.

 

[casesensitive]

I also remembers that Steve Paikin, a well known TV Ontario host tweeted out just after Hoskins that the Shermans were dead, and that he had heard from a reliable source/contact that the Shermans were the subject of a pending law enforcement/prosecutorial action or similar- I can remember the exact words he used. However, I very clearly remember him tweeting that "the noose was tightening on the Shermans" in referring to this pending action. In response to widespread criticism about his phrasing and his lack of consideration for the Sherman family, he pulled the tweet and issued an apology.

Paiken may have been referring to this?

The federal lobbying commissioner has dropped her high-profile investigation into Apotex founder Barry Sherman—and the Liberal fundraiser he hosted for Justin Trudeau—because she says there is no point in continuing the probe now that the billionaire drug maker is dead.

Barry Sherman's death cuts short the lobbying probe against him - Macleans.ca

 

[dotr]

I also remembers that Steve Paikin, a well known TV Ontario host tweeted out just after Hoskins that the Shermans were dead, and that he had heard from a reliable source/contact that the Shermans were the subject of a pending law enforcement/prosecutorial action or similar- I can remember the exact words he used. However, I very clearly remember him tweeting that "the noose was tightening on the Shermans" in referring to this pending action. In response to widespread criticism about his phrasing and his lack of consideration for the Sherman family, he pulled the tweet and issued an apology.

Ten things about television that must be stopped
December 18, 2017
"On the weekend, Steve Paikin, anchor of TVOntario's The Agenda, foolishly took to Twitter to claim insider info about the deaths of Apotex founder Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey. What he insinuated amounted to outrageous gossip. Later, he apologized and deleted the tweet. Proof that most TV-news types really do need all those researchers and producers."