CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[ldlager]

We don’t know the answers, how could we because LE hasn’t told us, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know. And what I meant was the culprit was ultimately unsuccessful in any staging because the deaths were deemed a double homicide. Just because of an anonymous TPS non-official leak early on doesn’t prove they were ever fooled - it may’ve been done intentionally as a fishing expedition looking out for possible suspects eager to further the m/s theory.

If LE is fishing I would urge them to try different bait…..

 

[ldlager]

We don’t know the answers, how could we because LE hasn’t told us, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know. And what I meant was the culprit was ultimately unsuccessful in any staging because the deaths were deemed a double homicide. Just because of an anonymous TPS non-official leak early on doesn’t prove they were ever fooled - it may’ve been done intentionally as a fishing expedition looking out for possible suspects eager to further the m/s theory.

Blank

 

[ldlager]

Is it true that BS did not normally park in the underground garage? I forget where I read that.

IIRC it has been written that BS usually parked in the underground garage

 

[ldlager]

Maybe from their vantage point it appeared that way, or they were just speaking generally about the location.

I'm curious, what is the purpose of the railing that borders the pool?

To hold on to as you walk on the possibly slippery and wet tile surface of the pool deck. To keep someone from slipping/falling in.

 

[newclues]

To hold on to as you walk on the possibly slippery and wet tile surface of the pool deck. To keep someone from slipping/falling in.

It is rather uncanny that the killer placed them both exactly around where the real estate picture of the pool was taken where we can see the railing.

 

[juli99]

Wow, I can't believe so many items were left behind in that house! Even artwork and photographs. I find that odd, no one bothered to do much of anything it seems. Maybe it was to painful for the kids to clean out the house?
But they could have easily paid someone to clean out everything.

I find it strange too. My brother died alone in his home, and although my dad and I could not personally go through his things, we had a cleanout company go in and set aside anything of significance. Any documents, books, artwork, etc. they placed in one room for us to pick up. I will say, it is an extremely awful feeling being in a house where someone has died. I could never stay more than 20 minutes.

 

[MistyWaters]

It is rather uncanny that the killer placed them both exactly around where the real estate picture of the pool was taken where we can see the railing.

The bodies were apparently found by the pool stairs.

“The realtor told police that she saw Barry and Honey Sherman at the far end of the room on the pool deck with their heads elevated and hanging on the railing leading into the pool.”
It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

“My clients weren’t really interested in the pool,” the agent said, adding they had a peak anyway. “We could see through the large glass door. [The bodies] were on the steps leading to the pool.”
Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank | Toronto Sun

 

[dotr]

I find it strange too. My brother died alone in his home, and although my dad and I could not personally go through his things, we had a cleanout company go in and set aside anything of significance. Any documents, books, artwork, etc. they placed in one room for us to pick up. I will say, it is an extremely awful feeling being in a house where someone has died. I could never stay more than 20 minutes.

Sorry about your brother juli99, going through a loved ones belongings after they have passed away is very hard and sad, although some may find it cathartic.

At first reading, the number of personal effects left behind in the Sherman home, was surprising and maybe a little disappointing, now i think it was prudent to just demolish everything.

The killer/s could have interfered with the household items in some way, like spraying clothing and furniture with a poisonous or infectious substance of some kind or....?
speculation, imo.

 

[juli99]

Sorry about your brother juli99, going through a loved ones belongings after they have passed away is very hard and sad, although some may find it cathartic.

At first reading, the number of personal effects left behind in the Sherman home, was surprising and maybe a little disappointing, now i think it was prudent to just demolish everything.

The killer/s could have interfered with the household items in some way, like spraying clothing and furniture with a poisonous or infectious substance of some kind or....?
speculation, imo.

Thank you. Part of me wishes I could have gone through it all myself, since it might have helped with some unanswered questions. I will note that when a death is not discovered for several days, there is a level of physical contamination to the air in the space that permeates everything. I'm not sure if that would have been the case for the Shermans since they were in the enclosed pool room.

If we had been demolishing the house, I might have done the same as the Shermans and left everything there. I feel like any documents should have been saved though. It was a crime scene after all, and you never know the significance of something like that.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Maybe your neighbour is the NW?

I am still laughing, thank you for the morning giggle.

This person is 5ft tall, too short for the perp I think. And with their gait the head bobs, understanding with the hood up on the NW we may not see that but this person's head is like a bird pecking when walking like they have a rod/pole going up the back from the butt to the shoulders, the upper body is rigid and the feet are heels in and toes pointing outward with each step. The penguin analogy works here too, except for the head bobbing.

Maybe the NW has had back surgery and has fused bones and does not bend the midsection when in motion?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Thank you. Part of me wishes I could have gone through it all myself, since it might have helped with some unanswered questions. I will note that when a death is not discovered for several days, there is a level of physical contamination to the air in the space that permeates everything. I'm not sure if that would have been the case for the Shermans since they were in the enclosed pool room.

If we had been demolishing the house, I might have done the same as the Shermans and left everything there. I feel like any documents should have been saved though. It was a crime scene after all, and you never know the significance of something like that.

Juli99, condolences to you and your family.

My sister and I had the experience to clean out our Mothers home after she died in it. We could not reach her and had a welfare check done, she was deceased in the home for less than 12 hours before being taken to the morgue. Thankfully we did not have that odor to deal with on top of the emotional toll it takes out of you as you go through someone else's personal things.

You bring up the very point I have wondered about for a long time, the odor in the air, the people who actually entered the pool room - the agent, 2 buyers, and the gardner that we know of, not one of them mentioned any smell. After 36 hrs. They said it looked like a Halloween display left out? would that be the first thing to come to your mind if you saw two people seated with coats on 50 or maybe 100ft away? what else was in the room to make it appear Halloween-like?

Also the mention that the buyers were not interested in seeing the pool room but took a peak and then were angry at what they saw? If the agent and buyers really did think it was just a prank or something, why did they run out of the house and become angered that they saw that?

Regarding the demolition, I am still on the fence if I think it should or should not have been razzed. It is reported the kids said it was too hard to sell because of what happened there. If the home was in such disarray it would not appear they tried to show it to anyone, no effort was put forth to try to sell it at all.

 

[deugirtni]

.... And with their gait the head bobs, understanding with the hood up on the NW we may not see that but this person's head is like a bird pecking when walking like they have a rod/pole going up the back from the butt to the shoulders, the upper body is rigid and the feet are heels in and toes pointing outward with each step. The penguin analogy works here too, except for the head bobbing. ....

Cross between penguin and chicken perhaps? j/k

 

[deugirtni]

Is it true that BS did not normally park in the underground garage? I forget where I read that.

I also remember reading something to that effect, but I can't find it right now... but I did find this, which contradicts:

These interview statements — there are dozens in each of the ITOs — consist of people telling police their theories of who might have a grudge against the Shermans, peppered with recollections of who the Shermans were and their daily habits. How Barry was brilliant, but invested millions of dollars with people and was sometimes taken advantage of; how he worked late and liked to park in the basement garage (where he did the night he died). How Honey was a good friend to many, but did not always get along with her children, and always parked in the driveway on the right side of the house (which she did the night she died). And how, as Barry’s nephew Ted Florence told police, Barry and Honey had “some frustrations with their children because of their lack of work ethic because the children were raised in and exposed to a lot of money.”

Barry and Honey Sherman may have been under ‘surveillance’ a month before their murders, homicide detectives believe

ETA: Could it be this we are remembering?:

And while Sherman often parked overnight in the circular driveway near the front door, his car was found in the basement parking garage, giving rise to speculation that he decided, for some reason, to park there that evening. Snow was predicted for the following day, and that may have contributed to his decision. Or perhaps he had a passenger in the car who suggested, or insisted on, parking underground. The ramp to the garage and the driveway of the Sherman home are heated, so no footprints or tire tracks would be recorded in the snow. Once he drove down the ramp, Sherman would have parked his car and left the garage through a door that opens onto a long hallway that leads to the two staircases, one at either end of the hallway. It seems likely that Barry was carrying the home inspection report in his hand. The report was found lying in the hallway near the garage door two days later by real estate agent Elise Stern when she was showing the prospective buyers and their agent through the house. It is reasonable to conclude that Barry was grabbed as he exited the garage and entered the hallway, dropping the report.

from KD's ebook, pg 263 in my version

 

[juli99]

I also remember reading something to that effect, but I can't find it right now... but I did find this, which contradicts:

These interview statements — there are dozens in each of the ITOs — consist of people telling police their theories of who might have a grudge against the Shermans, peppered with recollections of who the Shermans were and their daily habits. How Barry was brilliant, but invested millions of dollars with people and was sometimes taken advantage of; how he worked late and liked to park in the basement garage (where he did the night he died). How Honey was a good friend to many, but did not always get along with her children, and always parked in the driveway on the right side of the house (which she did the night she died). And how, as Barry’s nephew Ted Florence told police, Barry and Honey had “some frustrations with their children because of their lack of work ethic because the children were raised in and exposed to a lot of money.”

Barry and Honey Sherman may have been under ‘surveillance’ a month before their murders, homicide detectives believe

ETA: Could it be this we are remembering?:

And while Sherman often parked overnight in the circular driveway near the front door, his car was found in the basement parking garage, giving rise to speculation that he decided, for some reason, to park there that evening. Snow was predicted for the following day, and that may have contributed to his decision. Or perhaps he had a passenger in the car who suggested, or insisted on, parking underground. The ramp to the garage and the driveway of the Sherman home are heated, so no footprints or tire tracks would be recorded in the snow. Once he drove down the ramp, Sherman would have parked his car and left the garage through a door that opens onto a long hallway that leads to the two staircases, one at either end of the hallway. It seems likely that Barry was carrying the home inspection report in his hand. The report was found lying in the hallway near the garage door two days later by real estate agent Elise Stern when she was showing the prospective buyers and their agent through the house. It is reasonable to conclude that Barry was grabbed as he exited the garage and entered the hallway, dropping the report.

from KD's ebook, pg 263 in my version

Thank you, yes that's what I was remembering. "Liked to park" vs "often parked" sounds like he did both, so either wouldn't be unusual. If I drove a car like his, I'd probably park it in the garage in winter.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just noting that homicide was at the scene early on December 15th, and homicide Detective Sergeant Brandon Price gave the update to the press. He gave the statement about no suspects being sought and no danger to public safety.

Toronto police say public safety not at risk after 2 bodies found in North York home | Watch News Videos Online

Later the TPS said they were trying to alleviate the fear in the neighborhood because of the high amount of break-ins. (The worry that this was a burglary gone wrong.)

 

[deugirtni]

Just noting that homicide was at the scene early on December 15th, and homicide Detective Sergeant Brandon Price gave the update to the press. He gave the statement about no suspects being sought and no danger to public safety.

Toronto police say public safety not at risk after 2 bodies found in North York home | Watch News Videos Online

Later the TPS said they were trying to alleviate the fear in the neighborhood because of the high amount of break-ins. (The worry that this was a burglary gone wrong.)

I don't know how LE could have, with good conscience, made that initial statement about 'no danger to public', and 'no suspects being sought', if they hadn't actually believed it at the time, and if they only said it to alleviate neighbourhood fear and panic. Two people were murdered in their own home, with no sign of theft, no sign of home invasion, no sign of forced entry.... so it seems the neighbourhood actually did have much to fear at the time, and should've been given the opportunity to protect themselves however they saw fit. imo. To me, that was an excuse they made up after the fact, to show they really weren't incompetent afterall... but... I would sure love to know what it was at the scene that seemed to make them latch onto that theory right away, when reports by others suggested it looked like cold blooded murder.

 

[Window21]

I am curious how many people had keys, (or security pin number) to access the Sherman home. We know they had quite a few people coming and going regularly so did they all have keys? We have the housekeepers, plant water person, personal trainer, assistants, gardener (maybe) and of course the real estate people, and there may be more. These are just the one's I can think of at that moment. I am also assuming the children had keys to the home as well. For example, I am one of 4 siblings and we all have keys to the family home.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Just noting that homicide was at the scene early on December 15th, and homicide Detective Sergeant Brandon Price gave the update to the press. He gave the statement about no suspects being sought and no danger to public safety.

Toronto police say public safety not at risk after 2 bodies found in North York home | Watch News Videos Online

Later the TPS said they were trying to alleviate the fear in the neighborhood because of the high amount of break-ins. (The worry that this was a burglary gone wrong.)

thank you Lexiintoronto! in all the news media pics it shows uniformed police on the scene.

 

[newclues]

Just noting that homicide was at the scene early on December 15th, and homicide Detective Sergeant Brandon Price gave the update to the press. He gave the statement about no suspects being sought and no danger to public safety.

Toronto police say public safety not at risk after 2 bodies found in North York home | Watch News Videos Online

Later the TPS said they were trying to alleviate the fear in the neighborhood because of the high amount of break-ins. (The worry that this was a burglary gone wrong.)

Already around 36 hours (and moving onto 48 hours) had passed by this time.

 

[MistyWaters]

Already around 36 hours (and moving onto 48 hours) had passed by this time.

Price’s initial quotes were not directed to the press although they were present. I recall it was the evening of December 14th and the comments were directed to a group of concerned neighbours who gathered outside of the Sherman residence wondering what had happened, I recall one man asking if he should take his family to stay at a motel. However I don’t have a link, many of these early reports have been deleted.