CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[deugirtni]

Feeling like I should take on solving this crime with a reward like that.

Is the case cold...is what I want to know.

I believe it is now a cold case.

It’s still an active and ongoing double-homicide case. Current Homicide Investigations- Toronto Police Service

I've always wondered why it's categorized in WS as being a cold case:

Home

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CRIMES

Cold Cases

 

[juli99]

Me too, I shudder to think that my mind would even go there and think one of my siblings was capable to do this, to anyone, let alone our parents.

Let us hope this is people grieving in different manners. IMO Police ask very private questions during such an investigation, family is always the first to look at with a fine tooth comb, alibi's and timelines would be compared and discussed amongst family and possibly through questioning she lost confidence in her brother and she lashed out and has not had a chance to reconcile her emotions with information she now knows.

I get the feeling there is huge division in the family. Jonathan adding his own $25 million on his own to me almost feels like a slap in the face to his sisters because it's been made clear it is coming "from him." What's he trying to prove? That's my take on it. I don't think they trust him at all.

Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

The road into Jonathon Sherman’s 100-acre compound winds through a forest. A yellow smiley face tacked to a tree warns visitors that cameras are watching.

www.toronto.com

"Jonathon says he and Alex, who are just three years apart in age, were always close growing up and he is upset that they no longer speak. He says one of his siblings has told him that Alex thinks he carries a gun at all times and is going to “pull it out” and “shoot her in front of everybody.”

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I've always wondered why it's categorized in WS as being a cold case:

Home

Forums

CRIMES

Cold Cases

I edited my post to add that I didn’t mean to sound curt. I think after five years most people think of it as a cold case. I looked around at other old cases on the TPS site and I was surprised there are active cases that are over 20 years old.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I edited my post to add that I didn’t mean to sound curt. I think after five years most people think of it as a cold case. I looked around at other old cases on the TPS site and I was surprised there are active cases that are over 20 years old.

Well it is confusing when here at WS it’s called a cold case but not elsewhere.

 

[musicaljoke]

In my humble opinion, I think the NW is a red herring put out there by desperate LE. I suspect he's just a guy out for a walk on a cold night.
QUESTION - is there public transit anywhere near the Sherman house?

Answering my own question:

How to get to Old Colony Road in Toronto by Bus, Subway or Train?

Moovit helps you to find the best routes to Old Colony Road using public transit and gives you step by step directions with updated schedule times for Bus, Subway or Train in Toronto.

moovitapp.com

Bus stations near Old Colony Road in Toronto​

Station Name	Distance
Bayview Ave at Forest Heights Blvd	8 min walk	VIEW
Bannatyne Dr at Dunlace Dr	12 min walk	VIEW
Fifeshire Rd at Caldy Crt North Side	13 min walk	VI

I expect that there isn't any video of the suspect walking beyond the Sherman house to another destination which would rule him out. So if there is a suspect on video, walking toward the house, then returning after a period which fits the time frame of the murders, and who cannot be ruled out, then that person would indeed be a POI.

A guy out for a walk would be picked up on numerous cameras in the neighbourhood or on the TTC. He wouldn't suddenly disappear from view for a few hours where no one along the route can account for his whereabouts.

This video wasn't just pulled out of a hat.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

i wonder what’s « too sensitive »

Judge rules Barry and Honey Sherman murder case too sensitive to release more case documents

Justice Leslie Pringle said she’s concerned that releasing additional police witness statements and theories of the case from search warrant documents would impact the integrity of the investigation.

www.thestar.com

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I expect that there isn't any video of the suspect walking beyond the Sherman house to another destination which would rule him out. So if there is a suspect on video, walking toward the house, then returning after a period which fits the time frame of the murders, and who cannot be ruled out, then that person would indeed be a POI.

A guy out for a walk would be picked up on numerous cameras in the neighbourhood or on the TTC. He wouldn't suddenly disappear from view for a few hours where no one along the route can account for his whereabouts.

This video wasn't just pulled out of a hat.

Thanks, you make a very good point. I wonder why LE won´t release a little more video of this person.

 

[ConundrumPonderer]

All MOO 100%.
Whenever anything is added, I go back to my original thoughts. In every high profile case recently we’ve seen a lot of information and family dynamics that seem odd, or suspicious, but the reality is that most of the time it’s got nothing to do with the crime. The Sherman family is just like any other, the scale of things is the difference. One of the crime analysts on CityTV, a retired OPP detective, pointed out that no reward is going to tempt anyone directly involved or with direct knowledge.
These people are professionals, and professionals do their jobs, each successfully completed job is their advertising for the next one. I’m afraid the reward is irrelevant. MOO 100%. The Supreme Court has affirmed that the police have a wide latitude to lie or mislead to further an investigation, so what they say has purpose, not necessarily what it looks like. I don’t think Pearson Airport is relevant. IMO they know it wasn’t where the killers were, and Yim’s answer to the question can mean many things. Just MOO.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I have a motive I can envision on how it went down if Alex really thinks her brother is somehow entangled in this mess. Let me start with saying, I would not want to be in JS or his siblings shoes; reading posts and articles about him and how the public thinks he did it or masterminded it. Same for KW for that matter, he was ripped apart in the early months of the investigation. Media and we sleuths thought of some way-out there situations to try and make what little facts we know fit into our logical brains and envision how this could have played out.

(*** however I believe it was JS himself that shared Alex felt this way and added flame to a fire - he seems to be his own worst enemy, he is the only family member talking from the start at the funeral, he took over as the man of the family, the Sherman decision maker, the heir! and was arrogant, ignorant, defensive and came across as he felt he was entitled, privileged / above reproach and not a commoner, a man who knows how to handle all that money, all IMO)

I am guilty of suspecting involvement of some of the people we discuss here because they remain silent, but seriously that is unfair of me, I have not asked them any questions directly, not sure if private investigators did or the media has, or even if police did speak with them. I half expect they should be searching the internet for who is talking about them and then respond. My logic fails myself here, I am applying expectations to someone that they are unaware are applied to them and I am holding them accountable for failing my expectations. This is not that persons issue, it is mine for letting my emotions take over logic and fact. But I continue to forget this and let my emotions take me.

If JS confession about Alex feelings is correct, I believe it was someone close to JS, and they are able to manage/control/manipulate JS, now that JS has access to all this money they no longer need the Bank of Barry to be involved. Following the money, what is JS spending it on now?

Wish we knew the exact time of the unknown caller 911 call. Either HS attempted a call or it was part of the staging.

I am still not 100% convinced this is an experienced hitman or it is. HS cell phone on the front bathroom floor - if the killer grabbed her when she was dialing or had the phone to her ear, they would take the phone away and hang up, maybe see who she was calling. If this happened when she arrived just before 9pm, it is suggested then that the killer was there until midnight. Albeit the killer may not know that any 911 dialed call, call-connected to operator or not is followed up on but why spend 3 hours there if you knew HS called 911 at approx 8:50pm? If the phone was to be part of the staging, it was planted, maybe a 911 call was dialed and then quick hang up just before the killer left, hoping that the bodies would be found that night?

With what details we have and think are fact, the murderer was in the home for up to 3 hours, travelled around all three floors of the home, got up close and personal to tie the neck and wrists, why keep them alive and tied up? to speak to them, about what? torture them, wait for instructions? only HS had an abrasion on her face and blood?

The staging IMO was done on all 3 floors, but cleaning by staff started before they knew not to touch anything. Staging was to imply at first glance that Barry killed her and then himself. The "gaslighting" was started with the email to family to imply BS was losing his intellect. The gaslighting email failure to get siblings on board and BS refusal to have AP & JS take over everything created the action plan to remove these two obstacles to obtain the control and power they were looking for. I think the staging took a long time to set up and the killer was not concerned that anyone would see them in the home. The staging involved personal items from the home. This was either to back up it was Barry who did it, or the killer was making a point. But if killer is making a point who is he trying to "show" the point to? the ties around the neck killed them, the belts were for displaying purposes.

 

[dotr]

Well it is confusing when here at WS it’s called a cold case but not elsewhere.

The thread header changed one day to cold case, it was surprising, a little sad but understandable, imo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Lengthy front page article.
Dec 13 2022

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

And just a few doors away that Thursday morning, police are knocking on doors asking about a mysterious 911 call from the area. Again, police will not reveal the time of the call or where they think it originated. One theory I have heard from the Sherman family is that it was related to the murders''.

RS& BBM

“On Dec. 20, 2017, five days after the bodies were discovered, a Toronto detective was sent to the crime scene at the Sherman home and given a “To-Do List” by a senior detective. The order was to “conduct a 911 test call from the residence.” The detective made a test call that “lasted for 1 minute and 44 seconds” using the landline phone the Shermans had, an old Panasonic phone.

At the same time, detectives examined the Panasonic phone, which keeps the last 10 numbers dialed. What those numbers were is covered by a court seal. Using this information, police obtained a production order from Pringle to check incoming and outgoing calls from the Panasonic phone.

The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”
https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...pect-with-odd-walk-almost-four-years-ago.html

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

^^^^^ This 911 call and the person walking is really intriguing. Thanks.

ETA

CP24 Toronto's Breaking News

A 911 call placed one day before Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead was found to have no connection to their deaths.

www.facebook.com

 

[ldlager]

Thanks, you make a very good point. I wonder why LE won´t release a little more video of this person.

Maybe other videos show him walking with someone that police don't want to disclose?....?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

^^^^^ This 911 call and the person walking is really intriguing. Thanks.

ETA

CP24 Toronto's Breaking News

A 911 call placed one day before Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead was found to have no connection to their deaths.

www.facebook.com

Just to add— the police said they know of the Thursday visitor and why he was there, but no one else close to the case apparently knows.

 

[ldlager]

RS& BBM

“On Dec. 20, 2017, five days after the bodies were discovered, a Toronto detective was sent to the crime scene at the Sherman home and given a “To-Do List” by a senior detective. The order was to “conduct a 911 test call from the residence.” The detective made a test call that “lasted for 1 minute and 44 seconds” using the landline phone the Shermans had, an old Panasonic phone.

At the same time, detectives examined the Panasonic phone, which keeps the last 10 numbers dialed. What those numbers were is covered by a court seal. Using this information, police obtained a production order from Pringle to check incoming and outgoing calls from the Panasonic phone.

The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”
https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...pect-with-odd-walk-almost-four-years-ago.html

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Maybe other videos show him walking with someone that police don't want to disclose?....?

True, another good point.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Maybe other videos show him walking with someone that police don't want to disclose?....?

That’s such a good point!

He also walked at least 3kms on those streets that night. At some point he may have passed innocent people out walking or clearing snow. Maybe witnesses.

 

[WINDSOR]

From the posts and maps above, it doesn't seem to me that this person was very close to the Sherman house at all. In the vicinity, yes. But IMHO that doesn't make him suspicious. The police should release more video of this fellow if 1. they are to be taken seriously regarding the NW and 2. for the public to help. LE always says no matter how small the info.......call us. Right now, we don't really know who/what we're looking for!

I think many of us Sleuthers take the TPS seriously about the this NW suspect. They have video of the NW close to the Sherman's home, but it is less clear, and the TPS was asking the community's help in identifying this individual. The video they have posted is the clearest they had.
By implying the TPS is using a fake or phony NW video.... 'To keep the RICH family happy that LE are doing something?'
implies that the Sherman family is easily duped. Remember the Shermans have there own investigators and legal team, and if the NW was a patsy of some sort, they would see right through it.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I think many of us Sleuthers take the TPS seriously about the this NW suspect. They have video of the NW close to the Sherman's home, but it is less clear, and the TPS was asking the community's help in identifying this individual. The video they have posted is the clearest they had.
By implying the TPS is using a fake or phony NW video.... 'To keep the RICH family happy that LE are doing something?'
implies that the Sherman family is easily duped. Remember the Shermans have there own investigators and legal team, and if the NW was a patsy of some sort, they would see right through it.

I also take them seriously. but I´m frustrated and upset by all of it.

 

[dotr]

In my humble opinion, I think the NW is a red herring put out there by desperate LE. I suspect he's just a guy out for a walk on a cold night.

Rsbm.
Interestingly enough, maybe the NW was a decoy/red herring for the ''mastermind'' who may or may not be the actual killer, with or without an unusual gait - subterfuge !

' Dec 15, 2021

HUNTER: Are cops hunting amputee in Sherman double murder?

For four long seasons, Dr. Richard Kimble hunted a one-armed man he claimed murdered his wife.

torontosun.com

''Criminologist and former police officer Mike Arntfield on what the release of a suspect video could mean for the Sherman murder probe.'

“This would explain what I said when I indicated that given the efforts by the offender to otherwise conceal their identification, knowing full well there is CCTV in the area, he is not hiding how he walks.”

''He added: “And the fact he has a distinct stride or gait… it is either an intentional misdirect or something the offender would be unable to conceal.”

You can cover your face, wear a balaclava, add glasses or a beard. It is difficult to hide the fact you’ve had a leg amputated.''

“It’s a reasonable explanation because there is a disconnect between that idiosyncratic trait and his efforts to conceal his identity,” Arntfield said. “It’s like having a tattoo on your face or a giveaway accent. You just can’t hide it.''