Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[gregjrichards]

“A prominent Toronto lawyer said the family of a billionaire philanthropist couple found dead in their home two weeks ago hired a team of private forensic experts to investigate.

Sherman family representative Brian Greenspan confirmed Thursday that private investigators will provide 'a second lens' to the Toronto police investigation.

Seventy-five-year-old Barry Sherman was the founder of generic drugmaker Apotex.

He and his 70-year-old wife Honey were found dead in their Toronto mansion on December 15.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onaires-dead-funding-probe.html#ixzz52blLPxcP

 

[Tortoise]

If we’re talking about Barry staging the scene, I think he could have gotten himself in position, with his head in the belt loop and then shrugged the jacket down before leaning forward.

Just to add, it doesn't give full details but this article said their hands were in the sleeves -

with their hands in jacket sleeves behind their backs

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/family-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-hire-private-investigator

 

[JayFriend]

The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built

Honey and Barry Sherman’s new house would have been filled with light.


The property at 91 Old Forest Hill Rd. is desolate now — an empty 25,000 square-foot lot where a house once stood, near Eglinton Ave. W. and Spadina Rd. The plot of land has been registered in Honey’s name since November 2016, and the old house had been demolished to make way for something new.


Though it’s unclear to the public what will happen to the property now, architectural plans submitted to the City of Toronto reveal the intricate details of the 16,000 square-foot home the billionaire couple was set to build before their bodies were found this month — under what police call “suspicious” circumstances.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/28/the-house-honey-and-barry-sherman-would-have-built.html

Google Maps for 91 Old Forest Hill Rd shows nothing useful, but that article is enlightening, This new house, along with their Florida property looks ideal for retirement. Unless BS was an addicted workaholic and retiring would be a fate worse than death. In that case the murder suicide theory seems plausible.

 

[kiwi50]

JayFriend your post resonated with me.
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I just wanted to :discuss:
That in addition an attorney and an experienced PI were retained to conduct their own investigation. My prediction is eventually all parties will agree to classify the investigation as inconclusive.This case will be deemed an inexplicable tragedy.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Heavy]
I want to emphasize this is just my opinion after jumping off JayFriends post.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT][FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Heavy]Fellow posters be gentle with me. I hate being taken out behind the woodshed.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Heavy]:trout:
:cow:[/FONT][/FONT]

I can only see the family going along with that, if they themselves now realise it was murder/suicide.

 

[JayFriend]

I respectfully disagree. Telephones for business purposes take up too much time and time is money.

I don't know. Unless a telephone call is being recorded, it can't be later used against you. Emails don't disappear and can hurt people, even if deleted. I doubt BS was into the texting culture given his old school attitude about cars and such.

 

[otto]

“A prominent Toronto lawyer said the family of a billionaire philanthropist couple found dead in their home two weeks ago hired a team of private forensic experts to investigate.

Sherman family representative Brian Greenspan confirmed Thursday that private investigators will provide 'a second lens' to the Toronto police investigation.

Seventy-five-year-old Barry Sherman was the founder of generic drugmaker Apotex.

He and his 70-year-old wife Honey were found dead in their Toronto mansion on December 15.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onaires-dead-funding-probe.html#ixzz52blLPxcP

The police are going to be tied up with this for a very long time if they will be expected to disprove every wild theory that a team of private investigators is going to present as a theory for murder.

 

[SeesSeas]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/28/the-house-honey-and-barry-sherman-would-have-built.html
Thu., Dec. 28, 2017

What we know so far about the deaths of the Shermans

The bodies of billionaire Barry Sherman, 75, and Honey Sherman, 70, were found inside their home at 50 Old Colony Rd. on Dec. 15. Here's what we know so far:
-- A Toronto police source told the Star it was the Shermans' real estate agent, who had been helping sell the home recently listed for $6.9 million, who found the bodies, entering the home after being unable to make contact with the couple.
-- Hours after the bodies were discovered, a detective confirmed no suspect was being sought and police have not said otherwise in the days since.
-- A police source confirmed to the Star that an early working theory for investigators was that the deaths were a case of murder-suicide. Barely 24 hours after the Shermans’ bodies were found, their four children released a statement blasting that scenario as a “rumour,” something close friends of the Shermans have also said.
-- Two days after the bodies were found, the Toronto police homicide squad officially took over as lead investigator; however, neither death has been deemed a homicide. Police are still calling the deaths suspicious.
-- Toronto police says the cause of death for both Shermans had been “ligature neck compression.” The pathological term describes death from hanging or strangulation with a ligature — an object such as a belt or rope.
-- A police source told the Star that the couple was found together, by their indoor pool, hanging off a nearby structure in a semi-sitting position.
-- Former homicide cops told the Star that investigators will be exploring all possibilities in the deaths, including murder-suicide, double suicide or double homicide.
-- Still yet to come back are toxicology results, which may help provide new information, including whether any drugs had been ingested.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I am talking about both of them, but yes also BS staging. I guess maybe I was picturing the scene wrong, so they were kind of leaning forward, seated but kind of suspended over the pool? It's hard to picture.

BBM

I picture them sitting on the edge of the pool with lower legs hanging over into the water. I can see how even an older (shout out to those elder generalization allegations) man could do it.

Roll the body onto a throw rug, drag it to the pool area on those shiny slick floors, position the body with lower legs (from knee down) hanging over into the pool, pull body up and into belt loop by hair/head and then push it forward. Easy matter then to pull the jacket down over the arms.

I can see him then sitting with his lower legs hung over into the pool leaning forward putting his head into the loop with his hands, then shrugging his jacket down to imprison his arms, then just falling forward toward the pool.

People who die of ligature compression pass out fairly quickly. I think the reason he chose the pool area is 1. it was easy to set up a dead weight and 2. if he slipped out of the loop after passing out he would fall into the water and drown.

JMO

 

[pamelado2]

BBM

I picture them sitting on the edge of the pool with lower legs hanging over into the water. I can see how even an older (shout out to those elder generalization allegations) man could do it.

Roll the body onto a throw rug, drag it to the pool area on those shiny slick floors, position the body with lower legs (from knee down) hanging over into the pool, pull body up and into belt loop by hair/head and then push it forward. Easy matter then to pull the jacket down over the arms.

I can see him then sitting with his lower legs hung over into the pool leaning forward putting his head into the loop with his hands, then shrugging his jacket down to imprison his arms, then just falling forward toward the pool.

People who die of ligature compression pass out fairly quickly. I think the reason he chose the pool area is 1. it was easy to set up a dead weight and 2. if he slipped out of the loop after passing out he would fall into the water and drown.

JMO

This whole time I've been picturing them with their backs to the pool on their knees. I don't see how it would work if you were just seated and leaning forward. Actually, I'm not sure I get it at all.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[matou]

There is so much that remains unknown. But what is known is that Barry and Honey died of “ligature neck compression.”


The Shermans were found hanging with men’s belts around their necks in the pool area of their mansion. They were in a sitting position with their legs out straight. Sources describe them has having jackets pulled down over their arms and pulled behind their backs.


Its a head scratcher.

http://torontosun.com/entertainment...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

 

[juli99]

BBM

I picture them sitting on the edge of the pool with lower legs hanging over into the water. I can see how even an older (shout out to those elder generalization allegations) man could do it.

Roll the body onto a throw rug, drag it to the pool area on those shiny slick floors, position the body with lower legs (from knee down) hanging over into the pool, pull body up and into belt loop by hair/head and then push it forward. Easy matter then to pull the jacket down over the arms.

I can see him then sitting with his lower legs hung over into the pool leaning forward putting his head into the loop with his hands, then shrugging his jacket down to imprison his arms, then just falling forward toward the pool.

People who die of ligature compression pass out fairly quickly. I think the reason he chose the pool area is 1. it was easy to set up a dead weight and 2. if he slipped out of the loop after passing out he would fall into the water and drown.

JMO

One thing I did think was that if BS was suicidal, that railing could almost inspire one to hang oneself. I can easily see why that spot would be chosen.

 

[Abundance]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/winter-siblings-lawsuit-barry-sherman-1.4457330

The suit was amended to add the Sherman children and Barry's sister to the lawsuit.

 

[conledavis]

It's just incredible to me living in Cleveland Ohio where every real estate transaction INCLUDING THE PURCHASE PRICE is readily available, that the sale price of a property can be hidden. As I stated earlier Zillow doesn't work for Toronto. Everything is "private".

 

[otto]

BBM

I picture them sitting on the edge of the pool with lower legs hanging over into the water. I can see how even an older (shout out to those elder generalization allegations) man could do it.

Roll the body onto a throw rug, drag it to the pool area on those shiny slick floors, position the body with lower legs (from knee down) hanging over into the pool, pull body up and into belt loop by hair/head and then push it forward. Easy matter then to pull the jacket down over the arms.

I can see him then sitting with his lower legs hung over into the pool leaning forward putting his head into the loop with his hands, then shrugging his jacket down to imprison his arms, then just falling forward toward the pool.

People who die of ligature compression pass out fairly quickly. I think the reason he chose the pool area is 1. it was easy to set up a dead weight and 2. if he slipped out of the loop after passing out he would fall into the water and drown.

JMO

I interpret semi sitting as feet on the floor, and the body not quite in a seated position minus the chair.

 

[matou]

Did John Tory cross a line by talking to police about the Sherman investigation?


Under the Police Services Act, no board member is allowed to give orders or directions to any member of the police force, or direct the chief on day to day operations of the force.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...stigation-former-police-board-chair-says.html

 

[human]

It would make much more sense to meet at the architects office, bring coffee and sandwiches etc and discuss whatever.......
Someone asked how they'd eat.....I would show up with takeout and coffees to work over what the problem was........

That makes sense So if the architect story is true, s/he may have been the last to see them and may have sensed any issues between them if there were any.

 

[pamelado2]

There is so much that remains unknown. But what is known is that Barry and Honey died of “ligature neck compression.”


The Shermans were found hanging with men’s belts around their necks in the pool area of their mansion. They were in a sitting position with their legs out straight. Sources describe them has having jackets pulled down over their arms and pulled behind their backs.


Its a head scratcher.

http://torontosun.com/entertainment...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

How in the world does that work? The only thing I can think of on this scenario is that their rear ends weren't touching the ground?

Where is this newspaper getting their information?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[matou]

Apparently their legs were straight in front of them. See post above.

 

[juli99]

There is so much that remains unknown. But what is known is that Barry and Honey died of “ligature neck compression.”


The Shermans were found hanging with men’s belts around their necks in the pool area of their mansion. They were in a sitting position with their legs out straight. Sources describe them has having jackets pulled down over their arms and pulled behind their backs.


Its a head scratcher.

http://torontosun.com/entertainment...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

Sitting with legs out straight? Okay, that really is a head scratcher.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This whole time I've been picturing them with their backs to the pool on their knees. I don't see how it would work if you were just seated and leaning forward. Actually, I'm not sure I get it at all.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

How about if you picture them between the rail and the pool with the railing behind their heads. Not sure if I can explain, but with the belt looped around the rail, he puts his head inside the loop, ducking under the rail at the same time. So he would then be facing the water leaned forward in a downward position. Somewhat the way you would be if you were sitting in a chair and you dropped something on the floor then leaned forward to pick it up but not so far bent over as you would be picking something up. He then shrugs his jacket down to somewhat restrict his arm movement, then just falls forward toward the water.

JMO