Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[JDG]

I remember reading about a personal trainer who showed up after police were already on scene. From what I recall, he attempted to go beyond the police tape, explaining that he had a work out session scheduled with Honey. I’ve always remembered that, and how it seems like an odd reaction for someone arriving somewhere familiar only for it to be an active police scene. Wouldn’t your first reaction be “oh my god what is going on? Is Honey ok?”

He was no doubt in shock. Who would expect their client to be dead and the police all over the property. IMO

 

[debanng]

yeah thats strange but not really if police didnt say she was dead

 

[kay74]

If this was a direct hit, wouldn't they just shoot them and leave?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

the kids coming before the police is strange...

I missed that..the Sherman children were at the scene before the police?

 

[debanng]

? source

 

[debanng]

no the kids wrote their own narrative before the police concluded their investigation.

 

[Grey-St]

The article stated that they were not hung, but that the belts were wrapped around the neck. I'm assuming the pathologist could tell this by the nature of the neck injuries. Neck compression is not synonymous with asphyxiation.

Yes, this was the impression I've held for a while. Thus my questioning it.

 

[Tortoise]

debanng it helps if you use reply with quote so that people can follow which post you are responding to.

 

[Tighthead]

The family can't change the facts/evidence to make it look like a double murder tho. The second ME has found evidence that they (2) were murdered it says. IF he's misconstruing his findings to fit what the family want then his job/practice is on the line. JMO

Experts shade their findings all the time. They can interpret facts differently.

Henry Lee gave evidence in support of OJ. It didn’t harm his career.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Two of BS's belts.(No , I'm wrong. 'Men's leather belts', no link stating they belonged to BS. Sorry!)

BS may have been wearing one, but then wouldn't the killer then have to go to BS's closet and retrieve another belt and risk being caught on security cameras (if there were any) and possibly leaving evidence behind?

ETA: I was wrong about the belts belonging to BS.

 

[kay74]

Two of BS's belts.

BS may have been wearing one, but then wouldn't the killer then have to go to BS's closet and retrieve another belt and risk being caught on security cameras (if there were any) and possibly leaving evidence behind?

Unless it's someone who knows they don't have security cameras.

 

[Veeduck]

Two of BS's belts. ...

Have you seen it stated somewhere that the belts belonged to Barry? I assumed that too initially, but the only description I've seen is that they are men's leather belts. If the killer(s) brought something to tie the hands of their victims, then they may have brought the belts as well. It may also be meant to mislead LE, if the killer(s) actually are female. Fashion accessory as murder weapon? Just speculating, of course.

 

[Grey-St]

And a seated person can't kick you.

Well, neither could an already dead person :thinking:.

 

[JDG]

I remember your interesting speculation about shaming the Shermans. I agree that the death scene is what one might expect from a 'murder-for-hire' rather than a 'professional hit.' IMO, whoever hired the killer(s) had a strong need to make the victims suffer, (strangulation is very personal).

As for me, I suspect the cousins. I think one or more of them wanted revenge, not only because they believed they were owed a larger share of Apotex, but also they might have blamed Barry Sherman for the death of their mother, who died within weeks of the father's death. Hence the killing of Honey Sherman, as payback to the Sherman family. JMO

Mrs. Winter died of cancer, hardly the fault of BS. Their father died of an aneurysm. Thats not the fault of BS either.
It was just a fluke that they died within weeks of one another. IMO

 

[AllyJane]

Two of BS's belts.

BS may have been wearing one, but then wouldn't the killer then have to go to BS's closet and retrieve another belt and risk being caught on security cameras (if there were any) and possibly leaving evidence behind?

I thought they said men's belts - not specifically BS's. If they were BS's then it means that they could have been lying in wait. If it were just men's belts then they could have also lied in wait (maybe the garage) or got in the door by knocking if there truly is no forced entry. However if the pool camera was turned off as rumoured then that adds another aspect.

I would be interested to know what time the staff left that day. Someone had to know about the timing of the schedule of HS and BS.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I thought they said men's belts - not specifically BS's. If they were BS's then it means that they could have been lying in wait. If it were just men's belts then they could have also lied in wait (maybe the garage) or got in the door by knocking if there truly is no forced entry. However if the pool camera was turned off as rumoured then that adds another aspect.

I would be interested to know what time the staff left that day. Someone had to know about the timing of the schedule of HS and BS.

You're right - sorry! They have been described as 'men's leather belts', not BS's belts.

 

[pamelado2]

Police have been tight lipped on the case since their original theory it's a murder suicide, then backtracking to "suspicious death". So that official theory still stands. However, since the independent investigation started there have been leaks suggesting a double murder. We don't know if the leaks have come from within LE or the independent investigators.

Just to reiterate - that was not LE's original theory. They never made that statement so didn't backtrack. Their official statement has always been they were suspicious deaths.

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[BUF]

Mrs. Winter died of cancer, hardly the fault of BS. Their father died of an aneurysm. Thats not the fault of BS either.
It was just a fluke that they died within weeks of one another. IMO

Yes, I agree.

At some point though the cousins tried to accuse Barry of plotting to kill their father.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ionize-canadas-drug-industry/article37355332/

The legal fight turned ugly, with allegations flying that Mr. Sherman had plotted to kill Mr. Winter and that he used handouts to control the cousins.

 

[ABro]

I've just found that in suicide by hanging cases, the cause of death is often classified as asphyxiation by hanging. I'm not saying that the COD classification can directly tell us what happened here, of course you need more information. It was just something I always questioned.

And oh yes, we've been all over how you can commit suicide by hanging in a seated position, lol.

Different police forces and pathologists describe the same events differently. It's probably more helpful to look at Ontario cases including the recent death of Tess Richey:

“Strangulation is a narrow term and neck compression is a broad term,” Cheryl Mahyr of the Office of the Chief Coroner and Ontario Forensic Pathology Service explained. “For instance, strangulation implies compression by hands or a ligature. Neck compression implies broader possibilities such as a choke hold using an arm.”

http://toronto.citynews.ca/2017/12/04/police-handling-of-tess-richey-case-to-be-investigated-pugash/

I really don't think it's significant that they didn't use the term asphyxiation.

The biggest question IMO is whether it's possible to tell if Barry Sherman died from hanging or if he could have died from some other type of neck compression.

 

[Myvice]

Does anyone else see a possible connection between these possible murders and the Rebecca Nalepa case? Both involve pharma execs and suspicious hangings.