Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[JDG]

I didn't take anything out of context. Seniors simply don't like to move, whether it be to a smaller or larger place. Certainly, if murder/suicide is still on the table, the move could have been a source of friction between the couple and may have lead to this tragic event.

Clearly, murder/suicide is no longer on the table as LE has declared this to be a targeted, double murder.

Very broad statements such as 'seniors simply don't like to move' are, IMO erroneous by their very nature.

We are all different, young and older, some people move every few years, some don't move for decades.

As for tossing all opinions out there for sleuthing, I think thats a great idea, so long as everyones ideas and opinions are valid. If one is trying to play devils advocate, possibly one could state that so that things that ARE taken out of context do not seem to be so. Just an idea.

Nope, this is a very difficult and complex double murder. I think we will hear of progress but not for awhile yet.

Everything in this murder was done for a purpose, IMO and the business side alone could take a couple of years. There are a lot of people who do not wish to assist the police obviously, ergo the need for more warrants and covert tactics.

 

[Hazel]

March 27 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ry-and-honey-sherman-murder-probe-police.html

rbbm.

Thank you for the update and bolded areas. Good to see some news coming from LE.
These points also caught my attention (rs&bbm)
From what we have learned from the description of the crime scene, IMHO it looked sloppy and improvised, not what a professional hit would look like. LE is now saying "apparently premeditated nature" :thinking: not sure if that means the "perpetrator(s)" came prepared with leather belts, or maybe disconnected the surveillance camera(s) in advance?

The Star argued that the “perpetrator(s)” likely already knew what would needed to be done to frustrate the police. Similarly, police said they were worried that, if the public were told who had been interviewed, this would allow the “perpetrator (s)” to approach people who have not been interviewed “with a view to influencing their participation in the investigation.”

Near the end of his affidavit, detective Yim raises the concern of the safety of witnesses.

“Given the violent nature of the crime under investigation, the identification of witnesses raises potential concerns about witness safety. I do not mean to imply that I have knowledge of any specific safety risks,” Yim stated. “I am merely making this connection from the apparently premeditated nature of the homicides being investigated.”

 

[Hazel]

That's a lengthy article, and my Thanks to Kevin Donovan for his hard work trying to get the public some information.

In her ruling, Justice Pringle agreed with the Star that, “just because a police officer deposes that access to, and publication of sealed materials poses a serious risk to the investigation, does not mean that the test to maintain the sealing order is met.”

But, while Justice Pringle said she agrees “whole-heartedly” with the importance of the press in telling the public about what transpires in court, she said, in this case, preserving the “integrity” of the probe trumps the public’s right to know information at this time.

She noted that this is a “temporary” ban and invited the Star to reapply if there is a change in the investigation.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ry-and-honey-sherman-murder-probe-police.html

 

[AllyJane]

Does anyone know why there hasn’t been a large reward offered by the family to anyone that could come forward with very valuable information that could lead to the identity and arrest of the suspects?


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Because either TPS has more information than what they are saying or they don't want every crackpot to come out of the woodwork. Rewards for cases like this are not very successful. With this kind of case, a tipster would more likely want protection than money. We aren't talking about a bunch of punks that are involved in gang violence. This was a targetted homicide by hitmen or professionals.

We are assuming that LE has given us all the evidence and discovery that they have. Rewards are something you do when you are desperate for info or evidence.

 

[AllyJane]

Great Point. Why ignore the first pathologist and dismiss their findings?
Why not work together?

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Why are we assuming they aren't. Greenspan already stated that he will be sharing their info with LE. And are we sure that the first medical examiner didn't have the same conclusion as the 2nd one?

 

[WINDSOR]

Just had another thought.

I have been looking at the murders as a result of some action on Barry Sherman's part in the last 12-24 months, that angered somebody and lead to this killing. What if the killing was a form of payback or revenge for some 'hurt' years prior?

Could it be the 'avenger' has been waiting years to save money and develop the perfect plan? Maybe the staging was a form of humiliation similar to what the 'avenger' experienced previously/

I could envision "they left me hanging out to dry" as a unstated message. Did Barry ever 'hang someone out to dry' or 'twist in the wind' in the past?

Was Barry ever involved with a water-side development, and shaft someone? The company that built the pool, did Barry sue them as well?

Lots of things to consider.

 

[Hazel]

Anyone post this? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...lop-pot-pill-for-medical-marijuana-users.html

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Yes it was posted here a few days ago.

I don't understand, this company seems to be doing well, why did AD resign? Everything is so confusing.

VAUGHAN, ON, Feb. 1, 2018 /CNW/ - CannTrust Holdings Inc. ("CannTrust" or the "Company", CSE: TRST), one of Canada's leading licensed producers of medical cannabis, announces that it has accepted the resignation of Mr. Aubrey Dan as a director of the Corporation. He is leaving to pursue other interests. The Company wishes to thank Mr. Dan for his years of valuable and dedicated service to the Company. Mr. Dan has been a key contributor to CannTrust since he joined the Board of Directors in December 2015, specifically as a member of the Audit and Compensation Committees. The Board of Directors and the Company thanks Mr. Dan for his service to CannTrust and wishes him every success in his future endeavours.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...announces-director-resignation-672201333.html

Caption under picture: Aubrey Dan, whose father founded a company that was once a rival to Apotex, is also involved in the project to develop medical marijuana pills. "I think Barry (Sherman) decided Apotex better get in on the ground level," Dan said.

An early investor in CannTrust was Jack Kay, Apotex’s CEO for many years and Sherman’s trusted right-hand man since 1982. Kay had over the years developed a friendship with Aubrey Dan from the rival Canadian generic firm Novopharm.

Dan’s father, Leslie, founded Novopharm, which the family eventually sold to Israeli firm Teva. In the early days, Apotex and Novopharm were engaged in constant battles, though Kay and Aubrey Dan got along well and served together on an industry council. Kay suggested in 2016 that Aubrey Dan invest in Canntrust, and he did.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...lop-pot-pill-for-medical-marijuana-users.html

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Why are we assuming they aren't. Greenspan already stated that he will be sharing their info with LE. And are we sure that the first medical examiner didn't have the same conclusion as the 2nd one?

According to the Star, the family's private autopsy findings were not shared with the provincial pathologist until after the Star ran the story with the findings of the second autopsy. Also, the 2nd pathologist seemed to have reached a different cause for the manner of death than the first pathologist:

Police had attended the first autopsy on the Shermans, which was carried out Dec. 16 by a provincial pathologist. A second autopsy, conducted by a retired senior pathologist hired by the family, was done Dec. 20, the day before the funeral and the same day as the first series of judicial authorizations were granted by a judge.

Sources have told the Star that police did not talk to Chiasson until later in January after the Star reported Chiasson’s conclusion that it was a double murder — not murder-suicide. Star has previously reported that it was the conclusion of the second pathologist, veteran Dr. David Chiasson, that helped police understand that both Shermans had been murdered.

Sources have told the Star that police did not talk to Chiasson until later in January after the Star reported Chiasson’s conclusion that it was a double murder — not murder-suicide.

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...lice-probed-at-first-not-barry-and-honey.html


The Star is making it sound as if what Greenspan promised did not happen.

 

[Grey-St]

According to the Star, the family's private autopsy findings were not shared with the provincial pathologist until after the Star ran the story with the findings of the second autopsy. Also, the 2nd pathologist seemed to have reached a different cause for the manner of death than the first pathologist:


https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...lice-probed-at-first-not-barry-and-honey.html


The Star is making it sound as if what Greenspan promised did not happen.

Yes, but it still doesn't necessarily mean that both the pathologists came to different conclusions entirely. Maybe LE needed to hear confidently from two sources on the MOD to make a move. Or, maybe the first pathologist found the MOD inconclusive, and the second helped them firm it up. JMO.

 

[ldlager]

So now LE is saying that the homicides were “apparently premeditated?”
Does this ressurect the possibility of a home invasion gone wrong? I have to infer from this statement by LE that when Gomes said the Sherman’s were “targeted” it may not have meant targeted to be murdered. Maybe their house was targeted.
We may have this all wrong. But if so, and it was a home invasion, how could LE state early on that there was no danger to others in the neighbourhood? ( I am paraphrasing). Jmo

 

[deugirtni]

I was out and about earlier this evening when I happened to catch TPS's Chief Saunders being interviewed on a TV news channel, and at the time I saw it, they were talking about the Sherman case. They had been just about to have a call-in period for the public to ask the Chief questions. It was on CP24/Citypulse. Did anyone happen to see it? Hoping they will have the recording available later on their site?

 

[deugirtni]

So now LE is saying that the homicides were “apparently premeditated?”
Does this ressurect the possibility of a home invasion gone wrong? I have to infer from this statement by LE that when Gomes said the Sherman’s were “targeted” it may not have meant targeted to be murdered. Maybe their house was targeted.
We may have this all wrong. But if so, and it was a home invasion, how could LE state early on that there was no danger to others in the neighbourhood? ( I am paraphrasing). Jmo

Where are you quoting the 'apparently premeditated' from?

 

[deugirtni]

I was out and about earlier this evening when I happened to catch TPS's Chief Saunders being interviewed on a TV news channel, and at the time I saw it, they were talking about the Sherman case. They had been just about to have a call-in period for the public to ask the Chief questions. It was on CP24/Citypulse. Did anyone happen to see it? Hoping they will have the recording available later on their site?

It looks like this interview with the Chief is a monthly thing on this TV station. Here is the link - view the video with the heading "Chief wishes speedy recovery to Calgary cop shot", and they start talking about the S case at about 9:48. Unfortunately they don't seem to record the part where the Chief answers Qs from the public.
https://www.cp24.com/news/the-chief#

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Not quite- hopefully we will all be a year older! Lol:happydance:

I for my part would not say "hopefully" but rather "unfortunately". Cases on WS which I have interest in, threaten surviving myself unsolved all together. :tantrum: Not that much time left ....

 

[ldlager]

Where are you quoting the 'apparently premeditated' from?

Its the last sentence of the Yim police quote in Dotr’s fine post #760. Sorry I don’t know how to copy the whole quote to here.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Its the last sentence of the Yim police quote in Dotr’s fine post #760. Sorry I don’t know how to copy the whole quote to here.

"“Given the violent nature of the crime under investigation, the identification of witnesses raises potential concerns about witness safety. I do not mean to imply that I have knowledge of any specific safety risks,” Yim stated. “I am merely making this connection from the apparently premeditated nature of the homicides being investigated.”"

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ry-and-honey-sherman-murder-probe-police.html

 

[dotr]

Its the last sentence of the Yim police quote in Dotr’s fine post #760. Sorry I don’t know how to copy the whole quote to here.

Re post. To bring a post forward, click the white post number on the upper right corner of the post you want, it will then adjust the thread link at the top for you to copy and paste with your link. Hope i made sense!
This is the link for that post..
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-7&p=14020504#post14020504
OR
To reply to a post and bring it forward, click on the " reply with quote " on the lower right hand corner of that post, which will then appear, and you type beneath it.

March 27 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...be-police.html

‘Covert’ tactics, more search warrants may be coming in Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe: Police

Toronto Police probing the Barry and Honey Sherman case are planning more search warrants and may use “covert” means to track down the killer or killers.



“At this stage of the investigation, while witnesses are still being interviewed, a witness might on his or her own reveal a detail that police come to realize has never been publicly disclosed,” Yim said. The police state they are also concerned that, if the sealed material detailing the investigation to date is released, it “could contaminate subsequent witness statments … by enabling a witness to provide an account of events that coheres with other evidence known to them.”



The Star argued that the “perpetrator(s)” likely already knew what would needed to be done to frustrate the police. Similarly, police said they were worried that, if the public were told who had been interviewed, this would allow the “perpetrator (s)” to approach people who have not been interviewed “with a view to influencing their participation in the investigation.”

Near the end of his affidavit, detective Yim raises the concern of the safety of witnesses.

“Given the violent nature of the crime under investigation, the identification of witnesses raises potential concerns about witness safety. I do not mean to imply that I have knowledge of any specific safety risks,” Yim stated. “I am merely making this connection from the apparently premeditated nature of the homicides being investigated.”

 

[Breamworthy]

Yes, but it still doesn't necessarily mean that both the pathologists came to different conclusions entirely. Maybe LE needed to hear confidently from two sources on the MOD to make a move. Or, maybe the first pathologist found the MOD inconclusive, and the second helped them firm it up. JMO.

But if that were the case, wouldn't they seek out the second pathologist's results rather than waiting to read about them in the paper and eventually making contact with Chaisson 3+ weeks after the autopsy was done? (If the Star is to be believed, which we have only their word for.)

 

[Breamworthy]

So now LE is saying that the homicides were “apparently premeditated?”
Does this ressurect the possibility of a home invasion gone wrong? I have to infer from this statement by LE that when Gomes said the Sherman’s were “targeted” it may not have meant targeted to be murdered. Maybe their house was targeted.
We may have this all wrong. But if so, and it was a home invasion, how could LE state early on that there was no danger to others in the neighbourhood? ( I am paraphrasing). Jmo

I don't think this is necessarily the case. I think when they say "apparently premeditated" they don't mean that there's a chance that it actually wasn't premeditated. They're police submitting a legal document, and trying not to give the appearance of jumping to conclusions. The same way they would use the word "alleged" to describe even things that they are already quite certain of but have not yet been proven in a court of law.

 

[JayFriend]

Toronto Police are planning for more search warrants when it comes to the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case. ‘Covert’ techniques may be used to find the killer or killers according to police documents.

Ross McLean. Crime Specialist. Security expert, Former Toronto Police
Officer. rossmcleansecurity.com

https://omny.fm/shows/scott-thompson-show/police-are-still-searching-for-suspects-in-the-she