Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[MistyWaters]

In that sentence, ‘whack’ means ‘a lot’ or ‘large amount’.

‘Whack’ can mean kill, hit and a few other things.

It’s slang. I’m Canadian and other than KW, I can’t recall someone using that word.

I’m not familiar with the word being used in the context of murdering someone either.

KW said it wouldn't have been easy to say "no" to someone who gave you millions (or similar wording, don't find link).

I recall something to that regard as well, perhaps it was from the Fifth Estate show. That’s an interesting reply by KW, considering the millions later stopped.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Come on, "whacked" is a common mafia term, and if you've ever watched a movie or show like The Godfather, Goodfellows, or The Sopranos, you've heard this term a million times.

Yes. You use the word ‘whack’ if you’re in a fictional 1970’s movie about the mob and you’ve run out of verbs for killing the guy with the cannolis in the next scene.


Just teasing : )

 

[andreww]

Just to point out I don’t think anyone is pointing fingers and suggesting Kerry is bitter. It was his rational as stated -

“Winter told The Fifth Estate he was going public now with the allegations because he wanted to "hurt" Barry Sherman's legacy.

I was betrayed. My cousin hurt me, and now I want to hurt him.- Kerry Winter”
Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News

And from the same link:
“Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.”

Its confusing how two friends could collaborate a story, parts of which Winter later admitted were embellished or fabricated. I don’t think we know which parts he’s referring to.

My point is that, yes KW is bitter, but those that propose that he concocted this story because of his bitterness are mistaken, because he related the story to others before he had reason to be bitter. He did admit to embellishment, but embellishment isn't lying, its exaggeration. So IMO, the idea was likely discussed. Possibly BS was just making an off colour joke and the rest was embellished, but who knows? But at the very least, it was discussed.

 

[andreww]

Yes. You use the word ‘whack’ if you’re in a fictional 1970’s movie about the mob and you’ve run out of verbs for killing the guy with the cannolis in the next scene.


Just teasing : )

Goodfellows wasn't fictional

And the term "whacked" has a very specific meaning. For instance, it wouldn't be appropriate to say "Tim Bosma got whacked". Someone that gets "whacked" would be someone that has become a nuisance, and its usually its business related. It usually implies that someone else is doing the deed. If you paid someone to kill your wife because you were tired of paying alimony, you could say you had her whacked. If you killed her yourself, the term wouldn't apply.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

In that sentence, ‘whack’ means ‘a lot’ or ‘large amount’.

‘Whack’ can mean kill, hit and a few other things.

It’s slang. I’m Canadian and other than KW, I can’t recall someone using that word.

Thank you, but I need translation for the whole sentence. Can't find it in slang dictionary.
"if I ran into a whack of dough" ---- ??????

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Thank you, but I need translation for the whole sentence. Can't find it in slang dictionary.
"if I ran into a whack of dough" ---- ??????

‘If I obtained/acquired a large quantity of money’

 

[MistyWaters]

My point is that, yes KW is bitter, but those that propose that he concocted this story because of his bitterness are mistaken, because he related the story to others before he had reason to be bitter. He did admit to embellishment, but embellishment isn't lying, its exaggeration. So IMO, the idea was likely discussed. Possibly BS was just making an off colour joke and the rest was embellished, but who knows? But at the very least, it was discussed.

Whether anything was discussed between the two or not, I’m missing the link to how talk of that nature relate to the tragedy that actually took place 20 or years later. It would seem to me to be contrary for a conniving spouse to end their own life at the same time as the victim, regardless of how the death took place, if they’d spent an entire lifetime locked in hatred, looking to arrange a “whacking”.

Note in the comment below, KW is open to “either” scenario. But I’m curious, if he truly believed Barry hated Honey, why his imagination leads to the scenario of Honey being “punched out” in front of Barry.

“He (KW) reflected: 'Either way he had a terrible end. He either killed his wife and hung himself or he was targeted and Honey was punched out in front of him and his last moments must have been horrific.”
Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Grey-St]

Here it is...

The Fifth Estate interviewed two of Winter's friends who said they were told of the plot two decades ago, but neither had any direct knowledge of such a plot ever happening.

So my question is, if at the time Kerry and Barry were on good terms, why would Kerry concoct the story way back then? Its easy to point a finger now and say that he is just bitter, but way back then what motive would he have had?

Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News

And these friends are...whom? I have my doubts that this even happened either.

It's interesting that the article you're referencing has a title outlining that KW failed the lie detector test.

 

[2Hope4]

Well, has an arrest happened yet? I'm awfully suspicious that there may never be an arrest. JMO of course.

 

[ldlager]

Nothing new in this case to comment on or discuss. My gut tells me that TPS isn’t making much headway in narrowing down the few hundred parties that had motive.

 

[Power of Two]

Goodfellows wasn't fictional

And the term "whacked" has a very specific meaning. For instance, it wouldn't be appropriate to say "Tim Bosma got whacked". Someone that gets "whacked" would be someone that has become a nuisance, and its usually its business related. It usually implies that someone else is doing the deed. If you paid someone to kill your wife because you were tired of paying alimony, you could say you had her whacked. If you killed her yourself, the term wouldn't apply.

I was born and raised in a Prairie province. The term 'whack/whacked' was often used in my youth. You 'whack' the ball in when playing baseball or golf. Or if you were behaving badly you might get a 'whack' on your behind from the nearest adult. One could also get 'whacked on the head' by a ball playing sports or a by a branch when riding your bike. It was generally used as another term for 'struck or hit'. If a person is 'whacked out' they may be considered mentally unstable or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. So many 'Prairie-isms!

 

[ldlager]

The theory that has generally been posted here from early on is that Honey arrived home earlier than Barry, perhaps by a couple of hours. In view of that, it has always seemed incongruous to me that she was found in her winter clothing. If she arrived home so much earlier, and still had her winter clothes on, it has been speculated here that she was either killed soon after arriving home; or that she was held hostage until later, perhaps when Barry arrived home.

Based on my reading, I would like to propose a different timeline scenario. I believe it is possible that Barry in fact arrived at home that night BEFORE Honey did. Let me explain.

Link to the Gomes press conference:

Gomes states (RBBM) "...What we have come to learn so far in our investigation that I'm willing to confirm with you today, is that Honey and Barry Sherman were last seen alive in the evening hours of Wednesday, December 13th, 2017..."

Link to Toronto Star article:
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

The Toronto Star article states (RBBM) "...Barry and Honey Sherman were both at Apotex headquarters late in the afternoon on Wednesday, Dec. 13. They had a meeting with architects from the firm designing their new home in Forest Hill, an upscale Toronto neighbourhood. Honey left Apotex first, before 5 p.m. Barry, founder of the generic drug giant, left in the early evening. His last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m., sources at Apotex say..."

In her press conference, Gomes states that they were both seen in the evening hours of Wed Dec 13. Yet the Star reports that Honey left the Apotex before 5 pm. I realize that there is no definitive time frame for the start or end of the "evening". However, IMO I think it reasonable to define "evening" in Toronto as a time range between say 6 pm and 8.30 pm or so. Before the evening IMO it's "afternoon". After the evening, starting at about 8.30 its "nighttime" IMO. The Collins English dictionary defines "evening" as extending to an even later time of day than I do- it defines evening as "...the part of each day between the end of the afternoon and the time when you go to bed..."

Honey
If the Star article is accurate, we know Honey left Apotex before 5 pm. IMO 5 pm is not "the evening", its late afternoon. So if Gomes statement is accurate, someone else must have seen Honey alive sometime that evening- i.e. sometime after she left Apotex. Maybe she went shopping; maybe met a friend; maybe went to a restaurant before going home. But she was seen by someone in the evening- sometime between say 6 pm and 8.30 pm. Based on this, I would argue that she didn't get home before 6 as has been assumed by me and other posters. She was seen by someone in the evening, after 6 pm. She could have gotten home as late as 8.30 or even 9 pm depending on where she stopped on the way home.

Barry
If Gomes' statement is accurate, Barry left Apotex sometime in the "early evening'. IMO that would be sometime between say 6 pm and 7 pm. Someone at work probably saw him around that time. Or video or security at work recorded his departure. His last known email from his Apotex account was between 6.30 pm and 8.30 pm. but we don't know if that was sent from his office; his smartphone; or from his home by logging into his Apotex email account on his home computer.

Allowing for a 30 minute drive to get home, depending if he left his office at 6 or 7, and assuming he didn't stop anywhere, Barry could have been at home as early as 6.30 or as late as 7.30.

Conclusion
Based on the information we have, it is possible that Barry was at home as early as 6.30 pm on the Wed Dec 13. It is also possible that Honey arrived home AFTER Barry that day, after stopping somewhere on her way home after she left Apotex before 5 pm. It may well be the case that Barry was the first one that was attacked, after he pulled into the garage; and that Honey arrived home later and was attacked at that time. This could possibly explain why she hadn't changed clothes, and was found wearing her winter clothing.

I realize this is all conjecture, but IMO words are important, and the use by Gomes of the reference to "evening" is important IMHO. It is very possible that we have had the timeline wrong, and that Barry arrived home that night before Honey. I am not sure what that could mean or imply... yet.

Comments are welcomed.

 

[human]

Evening can be 5:00 PM because it is so dark in the winter at 5

 

[hudunit]

Idlager..I see your point..to me there is something very significant about the fact that Honey had on the same clothes that she wore to the meeting.Most women including me change into comfie clothes when they get home unless they are planning to go out again.If she got home first...why did she not change and why are there no signs of her being home for that time.Makes me wonder if either she was planning to go out again'

 

[human]

Could it be possible they were in the car with her? Like a car jacking? They got in with her and that is why there is no sign of forced entry?

 

[ldlager]

Evening can be 5:00 PM because it is so dark in the winter at 5

I wouldn’t say that in the summer “evening” in Toronto only starts at 9 or so, after the sun goes down. IMO “evening” doesn’t equate to a degree of darkness or light, but rather a time of day.

 

[human]

Being from MN, in the winter , evening is even like 4:30 because it is so dark.

In the summer, it is light until almost ten , June 21.

Going out in the winter in the “evening” is a whole different concept than in the summer.

People are hurrying home to stay in the house in the winter. They want to get their errands done quickly after work . In the summer, they are thinking about going out at about 8PM.

In the winter, you are hurrying to your car. In the summer, you are more leisurely and aware of your surroundings. It sounds like the weather was quite cold then.

 

[Satchie]

Could it be possible they were in the car with her? Like a car jacking? They got in with her and that is why there is no sign of forced entry?

That's an intriguing idea.

But how would the perps know (whether carjacking or other type of entry) that no guests were expected that evening? Seems to me an attack would occur late enough to be sure no one was expecting to see/phone either of them that night.

 

[Satchie]

I think 'evening' in the context of the working world overlaps late afternoon, and can start after 5 pm. We more often say 'good evening' to our colleagues as we leave for the day, we do the 'evening commute'. The afternoon is pretty much gone by 5 pm. A police officer might use the word to indicate 5 to 9 pm, since afternoon could be anytime between noon and 6.

 

[ldlager]

Being from MN, in the winter , evening is even like 4:30 because it is so dark.

In the summer, it is light until almost ten , June 21.

Going out in the winter in the “evening” is a whole different concept than in the summer.

People are hurrying home to stay in the house in the winter. They want to get their errands done quickly after work . In the summer, they are thinking about going out at about 8PM.

In the winter, you are hurrying to your car. In the summer, you are more leisurely and aware of your surroundings. It sounds like the weather was quite cold then.

Not cold like MN, that’s for sure!