Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[Deleted member 102539]

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

Unfortunately subscribers only ....

 

[Gardenista]

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

Unfortunately subscribers only ....

Sometimes you can access WSJ articles if you click the article link on their FB page.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sometimes you can access WSJ articles if you click the article link on their FB page.

Thank you! It's working.

 

[taylorss]

^ is there any new info in the WSJ piece?

 

[Kerry Winter]

It’s all gone according to Greenspan’s plan.....quietno media/no noise. Even here on Websleuths.Will it just go away? An unsolved double murder?
One problem: where are the multiple “phantom” murderers?
The truth will come out.....usually does.

 

[MistyWaters]

^ is there any new info in the WSJ piece?

In answer to your question, the only new info I noticed were two additional details mentioned by Greenspan’s team.

This quote refers to the original WSJ article written by McNish and Monga.

“Two details that struck the team as odd: The Shermans' bodies were found seated next to each other near their indoor pool. The belt around Barry's neck didn't seem to be secured in a way that would have left enough length to convey the right force for strangulation. And, write McNish and Monga, "if Mr. Sherman had strangled himself, why were his legs aligned so neatly with no signs of thrashing" as would be typical?”
2 Elements of Billionaires' Deaths Their Kids Found Odd

 

[MistyWaters]

It’s all gone according to Greenspan’s plan.....quietno media/no noise. Even here on Websleuths.Will it just go away? An unsolved double murder?
One problem: where are the multiple “phantom” murderers?
The truth will come out.....usually does.

Yes, I think eventually the truth will be known too.

On another topic, the lawsuit, can you tell us if you have any idea when the Appeal Court decision will be announced?

 

[Kerry Winter]

Appeals coming up mid-Aug.
In the J. McNish WSJ article:
“I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened,” Mr. Kay said. This coming from his partner and devoted friend?!?!
Why’s that Jack? Two murderers up close and personal, no DNA, no fingerprints, no surveillance, clearly wasn’t a professional hit with 2 bullets in each head....yet, you’d think the opposite. With Totonto’s best team of cops, unlimited resources, an offer of a 5o million dollar reward somewhere down the road....and the belief that no matter what, we’ll never give up and will charge/convict the people responsible.
Doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like you know it won’t be solved, because there isn’t anything to solve.
Just cover-up the M/S and everyone goes home!

 

[PaulR]

Just cover-up the M/S and everyone goes home!

You'd like for them to say it was a M/S and go home, wouldn't you?

 

[WINDSOR]

If the 'truth' is Murder/Suicide initiated by Barry, what is the benefit to the TPS/Greenspan group to promote the double murder scenario?

I do not think the 'family name' was hurt by the M/S scenario, in fact the double murder scenario has brought up much more negative info about Barry's character and activities.

As too "no DNA, no fingerprints, no surveillance"
Just because a murder is not solved does not mean it did not happen.

 

[JDG]

I still think there will be news once the police have had all of the financials checked over. This case is so complex, just the finances alone......

Once some information is released, we will all be back to sleuth away!

 

[casesensitive]

If the 'truth' is Murder/Suicide initiated by Barry, what is the benefit to the TPS/Greenspan group to promote the double murder scenario?

I do not think the 'family name' was hurt by the M/S scenario, in fact the double murder scenario has brought up much more negative info about Barry's character and activities.

As too "no DNA, no fingerprints, no surveillance"
Just because a murder is not solved does not mean it did not happen.

Good points Windsor. But it makes sense that the M/S theory hurt and infuriated the family who discounted it outright. Accusations (implied) of their father killing their mother was more hurtful than a double homicide. I know that the media would have dug up everything regardless of how they died.

 

[MistyWaters]

Good points Windsor. But it makes sense that the M/S theory hurt and infuriated the family who discounted it outright. Accusations (implied) of their father killing their mother was more hurtful than a double homicide. I know that the media would have dug up everything regardless of how they died.

It’s important to note, TPS never officially declared a M/S had occurred nor could the manner of the deaths ever have been determined prior to the autopsies being completed. It was the media who was running rampant with sensationalism from anonymous “police sources” early on. Given that, I think the children had every reason to feel hurt and infuriated, even outraged!

I can’t even imagine their anguish, to read headline after headline sourced anonymously from someone appearing to know all the facts but who’s too gutless to allow their name be known. The children weren’t battling a TPS theory, they were confronted with faceless and anonymous lurid, malicious scandal that was thrown directly at their parents. They knew their parents better than anyone and to just to sit back and do nothing, it’d be assumed they concurred with the rumours.

IMO that the media runs with stories involving cause of death not based on official LE information is ridiculous. It should never ever happen because too many people believe everything anonymously reported in the news is actual “news”. It’s not. The media sells stories, it’s not their role to prove the truth.

BBM

“That evening, Detective Brandon Price of the Homicide squad told reporters that there were no signs of forced entry and they were not seeking suspects. That led to a great deal of speculation, with police sources telling the media that the working theory was murder suicide — that Barry Sherman had killed his wife and then himself. Publicly, police never made that statement.
Sherman investigation initially focused only on Barry’s wife Honey as a murder victim | The Star

 

[Kerry Winter]

You'd like for them to say it was a M/S and go home, wouldn't you?

Yes. I have reason to believe Barry killed Honey....then, committed suicide.

 

[Kerry Winter]

If the 'truth' is Murder/Suicide initiated by Barry, what is the benefit to the TPS/Greenspan group to promote the double murder scenario?

I do not think the 'family name' was hurt by the M/S scenario, in fact the double murder scenario has brought up much more negative info about Barry's character and activities.

As too "no DNA, no fingerprints, no surveillance"
Just because a murder is not solved does not mean it did not happen.

The children/family and J. Kay have difficulty accepting that Barry snapped, killed Honey then took his life.
They want people to believe they were murdered.

 

[Kerry Winter]

I still think there will be news once the police have had all of the financials checked over. This case is so complex, just the finances alone......

Once some information is released, we will all be back to sleuth away!

Don’t hold your breath. I don’t believe there will be any TPS progress and the quiet will continue until this is all forgotten. This “unsolved double murder” is Greenspin’s endgame.
End of story.

 

[Kerry Winter]

It’s important to note, TPS never officially declared a M/S had occurred nor could the manner of the deaths ever have been determined prior to the autopsies being completed. It was the media who was running rampant with sensationalism from anonymous “police sources” early on. Given that, I think the children had every reason to feel hurt and infuriated, even outraged!

I can’t even imagine their anguish, to read headline after headline sourced anonymously from someone appearing to know all the facts but who’s too gutless to allow their name be known. The children weren’t battling a TPS theory, they were confronted with faceless and anonymous lurid, malicious scandal that was thrown directly at their parents. They knew their parents better than anyone and to just to sit back and do nothing, it’d be assumed they concurred with the rumours.

IMO that the media runs with stories involving cause of death not based on official LE information is ridiculous. It should never ever happen because too many people believe everything anonymously reported in the news is actual “news”. It’s not. The media sells stories, it’s not their role to prove the truth.

BBM

“That evening, Detective Brandon Price of the Homicide squad told reporters that there were no signs of forced entry and they were not seeking suspects. That led to a great deal of speculation, with police sources telling the media that the working theory was murder suicide — that Barry Sherman had killed his wife and then himself. Publicly, police never made that statement.
Sherman investigation initially focused only on Barry’s wife Honey as a murder victim | The Star

“They knew their parents better than anyone...”
WRONG: the daughters were estranged for many years. This wasn’t a close knit family. On the contrary....totally dysfunctional and toxic. One daughter in Israel, one in Whistler and one in LA.
Know that Barry’s fortune was cursed. The omen was real.
Has it occurred to you that it might have been possible that Barry lost his mind at 75, went off the deep end and killed his wife....afterwards, committing suicide. I often think Lady Macbeth.
Why is that harder to believe than double murder?!?!

 

[MistyWaters]

“They knew their parents better than anyone...”
WRONG: the daughters were estranged for many years. This wasn’t a close knit family. On the contrary....totally dysfunctional and toxic. One daughter in Israel, one in Whistler and one in LA.
Know that Barry’s fortune was cursed. The omen was real.
Has it occurred to you that it might have been possible that Barry lost his mind at 75, went off the deep end and killed his wife....afterwards, committing suicide. I often think Lady Macbeth.
Why is that harder to believe than double murder?!?!

If you believe “Barry’s fortune” was cursed, that certainly doesn’t rule out a double murder by an enemy.

And how is it you know personal details about him and his family given you were involved in hostile civil litigation for over 10 years?

As for me, I don’t have enough information to know what occurred at their time of deaths other than what TPS have officially declared. I’m certain the evidence of homicide isn’t being shared with you either.

Long before this case I’ve become highly sceptical of MSM’s unnamed or anonymous sources. Here we have other examples of “sources close to....(something or other)” also providing contradictory information. ie. who was the realtor who discovered the bodies and why she was there.

At the onset, based on what was described regarding Honey’s head trauma, sure I agree, a M/S was highly possible. Typical sad but not uncommon story of husband who beats up wife, faced with the horror of what he’s done chooses suicide as a way out rather than run, lie or face the consequences. But it was when the autopsies revealed both died by ligature neck compression that my doubts were raised.

The cause of death, the same, the two bodies were found hanging side by side from a pool railing to appear at first glance as double suicide. Therefore I’d have to disagree with you - I think the complexities involving a M/S scenario (especially committed by someone who had “lost their mind”) are far more complicated than a staged double homicide.

 

[Kerry Winter]

If you believe “Barry’s fortune” was cursed, that certainly doesn’t rule out a double murder by an enemy.

And how is it you know personal details about him and his family given you were involved in hostile civil litigation for over 10 years?

As for me, I don’t have enough information to know what occurred at their time of deaths other than what TPS have officially declared. I’m certain the evidence of homicide isn’t being shared with you either.

Long before this case I’ve become highly sceptical of MSM’s unnamed or anonymous sources. Here we have other examples of “sources close to....(something or other)” also providing contradictory information. ie. who was the realtor who discovered the bodies and why she was there.

At the onset, based on what was described regarding Honey’s head trauma, sure I agree, a M/S was highly possible. Typical sad but not uncommon story of husband who beats up wife, faced with the horror of what he’s done chooses suicide as a way out rather than run, lie or face the consequences. But it was when the autopsies revealed both died by ligature neck compression that my doubts were raised.

The cause of death, the same, the two bodies were found hanging side by side from a pool railing to appear at first glance as double suicide. Therefore I’d have to disagree with you - I think the complexities involving a M/S scenario (especially committed by someone who had “lost their mind”) are far more complicated than a staged double homicide.

I believe you don’t have an understanding of who my cousin was here in Canada. Look who attended his funeral.
He was very powerful and the autopsies: Greenspan’s retired coroner caught what the original autopsy missed....give me a break,

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe you don’t have an understanding of who my cousin was here in Canada. Look who attended his funeral.
He was very powerful and the autopsies: Greenspan’s retired coroner caught what the original autopsy missed....give me a break,

I’m Canadian as well, although I presently live in the west. Yes I agree the power of influence and wealth certainly prevails in this country, as it does virtually everywhere. But on that fact alone, why would Greenspan’s retired coroner be required to convince the official Coroner two months after the fact that a double homicide occurred? If “influence” played a role, a hired team shouldn’t be required whatsoever, right? And by that date, we’d also have to ignore the fact the Homicide Unit took lead early on, as soon as the autopsy results were known. Then we’d have to conclude they wasted valuable time and resources on a useless investigation for something they’d already concluded did not happen. That’s a real stretch.

“...But after “thousands of hours” of investigative work, including “obtaining or executing 20 judicial authorizations and searches,” seizing more than 150 pieces of evidence, 127 witness interviews and the collection of 2,000 hours of surveillance and security video footage from adjacent homes and nearby businesses, detectives are satisfied the couple was murdered.”
Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’

I’ve not noticed anything Greenspan has ever stated that indicates the relationship with TPS is adversarial. To the contrary. There are definite strategic advantages when police and PI teams work together and I assume there are here as well. Some leaks regarding the autopsy findings may indeed be intentional.

“....Again, the information was unattributed, sources described this way by the Star, “People providing information for this story are not identified as they were not authorized to discuss the case,” and at the CBC simply as “a source with direct knowledge of the parallel probe…”

But later Saturday, Greenspan spoke to the Toronto Sun about the already published stories. He said he was surprised by the reports, that he “highly” doubted the leaks had come from anyone on his team (but that if the leaks had come from someone on the team that person would be let go), and said that any “observations” made by the team “would be first shared with the Toronto police. We are not here to interfere with police but to support them.”...”
Christie Blatchford: Private investigators in Sherman case share police penchant for leaks