CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #3

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

More on bovine TB - the consequences are serious if this disease becomes out of control, not only to the farms and ranches impacted but to Canada’s entire beef export industry if bans are put in place by other countries. How might this connect to Ben’s disappearance? I don’t know but I’d bet it’d definitely causes heightened tension between neighbouring ranches in Nicola Valley. It could also be a reason it’d become critical for stray cattle to be rounded up.

“The last Canadian case of bovine TB occurred in 2016 on a ranch near Jenner, Alta. The investigation into that case led to discovery of six infected animals and resulted in the destruction of about 11,500 cattle.

That investigation officially ended in May. The source of the disease was not determined.”
Bovine TB found in southern B.C. cow | The Western Producer

 

[Jim_M]

Purely speculation, but bovine TB could be the reason Ben was hired and the timing is in sync as well. I’ve noticed these same articles pasted on this thread already but not a lot of discussion about it. Even if bovine TB was discovered at a neighbouring ranch, it’s possible NR’s cattle are under quarantine as well. This would be the type of work a non-owner/operator ranch might seek an experienced professional cowboy/ranch manager to oversee. If it does relate to NR, a large number of missing cattle compared to company data would be information known to far more people than just Ben.

“To date, four confirmed cases of the strain of bovine TB have been found in one herd in the Nicola Valley, including the cow that was confirmed to have the disease when it was slaughtered in October 2018.”
Bovine disease traced to Nicola Valley cows - Merritt Herald

Jan 24, 2019
“CIFA has placed movement controls on approximately 18,000 animals in 25 herds as the investigation continues.

“Testing, humane destruction, and disposal are carried out as required,” the statement reads.

“They have a very strict protocol to follow,” Boon told the Herald, noting sometimes ranchers question or challenge it.

“Because in some cases we have to remove whole herds of cattle and it is a huge cost and often times a lot of hardship,” he said, noting it takes several days to perform the TB scratch test on each cow in a herd. “It takes all the manpower and of course we hate handling cattle any more than we have to because it puts stress on them, it challenges their health, it can put them in danger or injury.”.....”
More -
Bovine disease traced to Nicola Valley cows - Merritt Herald

I understand that your speculation could have some bearing on how all the ranches are managing their herds, but I thought Ben was hired to replace the let-go manager? I do not recall any previous article stating that he was brought on due to this disease? Do we have any information that would tie this all into Ben’s going missing? I would like to read more on that.

 

[MistyWaters]

I understand that your speculation could have some bearing on how all the ranches are managing their herds, but I thought Ben was hired to replace the let-go manager? I do not recall any previous article stating that he was brought on due to this disease? Do we have any information that would tie this all into Ben’s going missing? I would like to read more on that.

I’m not so sure it fair to say the prior manager was “let go” because often that refers to someone who is involuntarily fired. Sometimes long term employees leave due to an advantageous arrangement for all concerned. There’s another online article referring to the ex-ranch manager’s new employment as ranch manager at a very large and prestigious Alberta ranch that was recently donated to support the University of Calgary’s veterinary program. He’d worked at Nicola Ranch for 19 years and obviously came with highly regarded references.

Regardless, in April, 2017 Nicola Ranch decided to contract out its haying operations and so the services of a ranch manager were no longer required according to this report.
Bradner R Farms assumes haying operation at Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald
“The ranch will retain a full-time cowboy crew of four to manage its cattle, Williams said.”

I’ve not noticed it mentioned exactly why Ben was hired in Nov, 2018 other than speculation. There was almost a year and a half gap in time.

The specific ranches impacted by the discovery of bovine TB in October, 2018 haven’t been mentioned either, other than the location of Nicola Valley. So my speculation is just that, more speculation.

However the report below does happen to mention extra staff might need to be hired and the timing is interesting to note as well. I’m not aware of exactly what added workload or what strict protocols and controls must be put in place but I can understand the seriousness of a bovine TB scare, even in the immediate area, and why it could prompt the hiring of a ranch manager by an absentee owner. The disease has the potential to cause an entire herd to be put down if the risk is not closely monitored.

“CIFA has placed movement controls on approximately 18,000 animals in 25 herds as the investigation continues.

“Testing, humane destruction, and disposal are carried out as required,” the statement reads.

“They have a very strict protocol to follow,” Boon told the Herald, noting sometimes ranchers question or challenge it.

“For a lot of guys there are other things they need to be doing. They need to hire extra staff a lot of times.....”
Bovine disease traced to Nicola Valley cows - Merritt Herald

How this might connect to Ben’s disappearance is unknown because the RCMP have given us no inkling of a potential motive of others involved, aside from declaring circumstances of his disappearance to be suspicious. They’ve also never stated if they believe work related matters to be suspected. It’s still one big question mark for now, hopefully not for long though.

 

[Trudie]

I understand that your speculation could have some bearing on how all the ranches are managing their herds, but I thought Ben was hired to replace the let-go manager? I do not recall any previous article stating that he was brought on due to this disease? Do we have any information that would tie this all into Ben’s going missing? I would like to read more on that.

Bradner R Farms Stepping In

Bradner R Farms assumes haying operation at Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald

 

[Valiant]

Farming is tough business - both physically and financially.
More and more small (family) farms and medium sized farms just aren't making money, with many going under, while big corporate farms are now more common.
Even with 1000 cattle, this wouldn't be a large operation so I can certainly understand outsourcing the hay operations and bringing in a fresh body to try and get the operation on more solid financial footing.

 

[Trudie]

Farming is tough business - both physically and financially.
More and more small (family) farms and medium sized farms just aren't making money, with many going under, while big corporate farms are now more common.
Even with 1000 cattle, this wouldn't be a large operation so I can certainly understand outsourcing the hay operations and bringing in a fresh body to try and get the operation on more solid financial footing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/struggling-ranchers-want-beef-price-inquiry-1.805266

They were struggling as far back as 2009, per link.
I agree, new management often brings a fresh perspective. Moo

 

[MistyWaters]

Regardless why Ben was hired by NR it appears he perceived it as a great opportunity, a learning experience in a different county. Why it didn’t prove to be so, why it led to tragedy, that’s what’s perplexing.


“......Tyner’s parents moved the family to Wyoming about 20 years ago and started to build a herd that has now grown to about 100 cattle, Judy Sanders said.

We’re worried sick.

Before his move to B.C., Tyner lived on the Wyoming ranch and became caretaker of the operation after his father suffered an injury, she said.

“He’s a very fine young man, quiet and reserved, very mannerly. A little shy … but takes real pride in what he does.”

DeBerard said Tyner never hesitated to lend a helping hand to neighbours back home.

“Anytime you needed Ben to gather cows, or brand cows, or if you needed him with a horse trailer, he’d drop whatever he was doing to help somebody — a solid, strong guy.”

Always eager to learn, Tyner jumped at the opportunity to work in B.C., he said.

“Who wouldn’t want to go to a big cattle ranch in Canada — a new horizon, a new way to see things?”.....”

‘We’re coming for you’: Search on for ‘true American cowboy’ missing in B.C. backcountry

 

[Trudie]

I understand that your speculation could have some bearing on how all the ranches are managing their herds, but I thought Ben was hired to replace the let-go manager? I do not recall any previous article stating that he was brought on due to this disease? Do we have any information that would tie this all into Ben’s going missing? I would like to read more on that.

@Jim_M It is moo Ben was brought on for one reason.
With the owner leasing out the hay & Bradner assuming the variable costs, one can assume NR was bleeding money on a monthly basis, with owner funding the day to day operation. Locals have stated the herd is very small.
The herd had to be kept or they would lose Crown land. What would be left?
How was payroll met?
Feed, veterinary services, utilities, insurance, property taxes, incidentals & possibly mortgage payments would be huge.
When a GM flat out tells the media there’s a cash flow issue, I think we can believe him. The owner certainly didn’t offer a correction.
Moo

 

[zecats]

@Jim_M It is moo Ben was brought on for one reason.
With the owner leasing out the hay & Bradner assuming the variable costs, one can assume NR was bleeding money on a monthly basis, with owner funding the day to day operation. Locals have stated the herd is very small.
The herd had to be kept or they would lose Crown land. What would be left?
How was payroll met?
Feed, veterinary services, utilities, insurance, property taxes, incidentals & possibly mortgage payments would be huge.
When a GM flat out tells the media there’s a cash flow issue, I think we can believe him. The owner certainly didn’t offer a correction.
Moo

Makes one wonder how they could afford to hire Ben. He was a college-educated, experienced ranch manger/cowboy. And for him to move away from home and accept this opportunity . I'd think he'd need a certain amount of salary. Housing, maybe vehicle comes with, so that's a plus..but isn't that always the case?

Course he could have been doing it for the experience and the joy of trying it out in yet another country. Still, why hire a manger if money was /is tight? IMO

 

[Trudie]

Makes one wonder how they could afford to hire Ben. He was a college-educated, experienced ranch manger/cowboy. And for him to move away from home and accept this opportunity . I'd think he'd need a certain amount of salary. Housing, maybe vehicle comes with, so that's a plus..but isn't that always the case?

Course he could have been doing it for the experience and the joy of trying it out in yet another country. Still, why hire a manger if money was /is tight? IMO

I think they had no choice. Maybe the elderly owner took a
Laissez-faire approach, with things going downhill. Maybe the current owner chooses to not spend his dime to keep NR afloat.
We know from experience it’s not unusual for people to get comfortable on the job, making them unmanageable.
Ben was receiving applications for cowboys, I posted the want ad on first thread. He apparently planned some personnel changes. Moo

ETA: Ben was likely worth every dime & commanded a good salary. As a working manager, I think he could have cut a few costs. It is moo he’d waste no time getting rid of anyone unable to carry their weight.

 

[MistyWaters]

@Jim_M It is moo Ben was brought on for one reason.
With the owner leasing out the hay & Bradner assuming the variable costs, one can assume NR was bleeding money on a monthly basis, with owner funding the day to day operation. Locals have stated the herd is very small.
The herd had to be kept or they would lose Crown land. What would be left?
How was payroll met?
Feed, veterinary services, utilities, insurance, property taxes, incidentals & possibly mortgage payments would be huge.
When a GM flat out tells the media there’s a cash flow issue, I think we can believe him. The owner certainly didn’t offer a correction.
Moo

What do you mean by “the herd had to be kept or they would lose Crown land?” “Crown land” means the land is already owned by the government. Often it’s leased (or rented) by ranches and farmers for grazing but at a cost. When the size of a farm or ranch is noted, it doesn’t include Crown Land grazing rights.

If in 2017 the ranch only employed 4 to tend to the cattle herd, given labour laws and a 40 hour work week (168 hours in a week), what is the basis of your theory NR was a large cattle operation because it appears a minimal number of employees were involved, given the owner had no onsite presence. I’ve not seen it mentioned anywhere how many head of cattle this operation consisted of by the time Ben was hired. Do you know and if so how?

 

[MistyWaters]

I think they had no choice. Maybe the elderly owner took a
Laissez-faire approach, with things going downhill. Maybe the current owner chooses to not spend his dime to keep NR afloat.
We know from experience it’s not unusual for people to get comfortable on the job, making them unmanageable.
Ben was receiving applications for cowboys, I posted the want ad on first thread. He apparently planned some personnel changes. Moo

ETA: Ben was likely worth every dime & commanded a good salary. As a working manager, I think he could have cut a few costs. It is moo he’d waste no time getting rid of anyone unable to carry their weight.

Or additional cowboys were required to prepare for the CFIA cattle inspections and additional controls related to the discovery of bovine TB in October, 2018 in Nicola Valley.

The need to hire additional employees could point towards that direction as well, just saying....because we don’t have access to the facts of the matter.

 

[zecats]

Older article (2005) but seems to explain how leases come up for renewal and the challenges that incurs. B.C. ranchers fear loss of grazing rights | The Western Producer

B.C. ranchers fear loss of grazing rights | The Western Producer

 

[MistyWaters]

Makes one wonder how they could afford to hire Ben. He was a college-educated, experienced ranch manger/cowboy. And for him to move away from home and accept this opportunity . I'd think he'd need a certain amount of salary. Housing, maybe vehicle comes with, so that's a plus..but isn't that always the case?

Course he could have been doing it for the experience and the joy of trying it out in yet another country. Still, why hire a manger if money was /is tight? IMO

As an American citizen, I’m curious under what hiring program he was employed in Canada or if the job was by contract for a limited period of time.

But regardless of how or why he was hired, still no indication his employment was directly involved in his disappearance. There are dangerous wackos who have the potential to blow at a moments notice everywhere, certainly not unique to Canada.

 

[zecats]

As an American citizen, I’m curious under what hiring program he was employed in Canada or if the job was by contract for a limited period of time.

But regardless of how or why he was hired, still no indication his employment was directly involved in his disappearance. There are dangerous wackos who have the potential to blow at a moments notice everywhere, certainly not unique to Canada.

LE was searching the ranch, again. They were looking in compost and feedlot and wood chips from logging. The horse was saddled and trailered by a person who knew which horse, which tack and how to do it/where to take it. I'm not thinking some random ex boyfriend of a woman, or someone Ben insulted in a bar is responsible for this. Until we learn differently, true there are other possibilities. IMO they are slim and if we follow what we do know, it leads to employment connection. Again JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

LE was searching the ranch, again. They were looking in compost and feedlot and wood chips from logging. The horse was saddled and trailered by a person who knew which horse, which tack and how to do it/where to take it. I'm not thinking some random ex boyfriend of a woman, or someone Ben insulted in a bar is responsible for this. Until we learn differently, true there are other possibilities. IMO they are slim and if we follow what we do know, it leads to employment connection. Again JMO.

The area around Ben’s home would seem a logical place for the RCMP to conduct a thorough search, whether it was to look for specific evidence of foul play or rule out that nothing was found causing them to believe the crime scene occurred elsewhere. I’m a little surprised this search wasn’t conducted much sooner if they indeed suspected the ranch was the location of the crime scene, instead they waited almost two months.

When someone is eventually charged can you imagine a defence attorney asking an officer if Ben’s body was found buried within a compost pile after becoming overcome with toxic fumes and the officer was forced to admit they didn’t even look? That type of lack of due diligence results in not guilty verdicts by creating reasonable doubt. One thing I’m quite confident of, the RCMP’s work is thorough and searches are routinely conducted to include or exclude areas of interest because later it becomes important evidence, introduced during the trial. Therefore I’m not sure if this recent search points one direction or the other.

ETA - Just a strong hunch, if the RCMP is closing in on a suspect, theft charges of Ben’s horse will be laid first. Whether or not the horse was later let loose or escaped is immaterial if the horse was illegally removed from the ranch. Often lesser charges are filed in order to make an initial arrest, then murder charges follow. JMO

 

[zecats]

The area around Ben’s home would seem a logical place for the RCMP to conduct a thorough search, whether it was to look for specific evidence of foul play or rule out that nothing was found causing them to believe the crime scene occurred elsewhere. I’m a little surprised this search wasn’t conducted much sooner if they indeed suspected the ranch was the location of the crime scene, instead they waited almost two months.

When someone is eventually charged can you imagine a defence attorney asking an officer if Ben’s body was found buried within a compost pile after becoming overcome with toxic fumes and the officer was forced to admit they didn’t even look? That type of lack of due diligence results in not guilty verdicts by creating reasonable doubt. One thing I’m quite confident of, the RCMP’s work is thorough and searches are routinely conducted to include or exclude areas of interest because later it becomes important evidence, introduced during the trial. Therefore I’m not sure if this recent search points one direction or the other.

ETA - Just a strong hunch, if the RCMP is closing in on a suspect, theft charges of Ben’s horse will be laid first. Whether or not the horse was later let loose or escaped is immaterial if the horse was illegally removed from the ranch. Often lesser charges are filed in order to make an initial arrest, then murder charges follow. JMO

Yes of course, someone would take the time to saddle and bridle a horse in order to steal her. And then she just happens to end up 7km up a logging road north of town.

We can agree to disagree I hope.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes of course, someone would take the time to saddle and bridle a horse in order to steal her. And then she just happens to end up 7km up a logging road north of town.

We can agree to disagree I hope.

Arresting someone on lesser charges during the course of a homicide investigation prevents an accused from fleeing. If this were to occur, would any of us disagree? Certainly not me!

 

[zecats]

Arresting someone on lesser charges during the course of a homicide investigation prevents an accused from fleeing. If this were to occur, would any of us disagree? Certainly not me!

I would be happy with any arrest, especially if it led to justice for Ben. I just don't see how stealing a horse is any more provable than murdering Ben. They go hand in hand and are part of the same crime. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I would be happy with any arrest, especially if it led to justice for Ben. I just don't see how stealing a horse is any more provable than murdering Ben. They go hand in hand and are part of the same crime. IMO

I have to admit I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing about because I understand what you suggesting. The point I’m obviously doing a very poor job of making is the act of stealing a horse in a truck and trailer from a ranch does not result in the death of the owner. That is why I see theft of a horse and murder to be two separate crimes.

We also know LE has requested dash cam and video from that weekend, hopeful they’ve been successful in obtaining useful evidence, for example the identity of the driver.

There have been other cases in the past where an arrest on a lesser charge can also result in a confession because obviously the person who took and transported the horse from NR (assuming that occurred) must’ve had firsthand knowledge regarding Ben’s death, especially if more than one person was involved.