CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

[FPoulet]

H

Don't forget, his lawyer was calling him that night, we may never know the reason why. We also don't know if Honey had a will somewhere.

His, Honey’s and/or their estates lawyer. Can that be a coincidence?

 

[Sphinx]

H

His, Honey’s and/or their estates lawyer. Can that be a coincidence?

 

[Sphinx]

I doubt that it is a coincidence, and I suspect that TPS has asked him not to speak about why he was calling them, and if Honey had a will. We have learned that they consider the estate integral to their investigation, and that is why the judge sealed so much relating to it. IMO

 

[sandy_80]

H

His, Honey’s and/or their estates lawyer. Can that be a coincidence?

the mysterious holes in the wall

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I watched the last 2 episodes last night. The scenes and depictions of them each returning home and entering the house were hard to watch even though it really wasn't them but actors' cars and drawings. They must have felt such terror.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

KD’s documentary, Episode 3 ‘Money Money Money’

New information and spoilers bolded.

-recap of last episodes, clips of people calling Honey tough, a person telling Honey ‘you can’t just do that, you can’t speak to people that way’.

-Barry described as a rule-breaker, making big financial bets, side businesses, he’s a ‘deal junky’.

-FD’A’s background, which we know has its scandals, and how he went into business with Barry. FD’A recalls the meeting, with F using words like ‘yes, sir’, and shaking his hand respectfully.

-Barry backed all his ideas, including paying for air time for the infomercial-type show ‘Being Frank’, and funding his 7 movies. Apparently Barry loved the movie business.

-FD’A doesn’t explain Sicilian Vampire, and I really need it explained to me.

-many people who knew Barry did not like his relationship with FD’A. Jack Kay many times told Barry: ‘you’ve got to cut him loose’.

-Former In house legal counsel Shashank Upadhye is in this episode. He was previously been quoted as saying FD’A shouted verbal abuse at Barry for many years.

-in this episode, Shashank says he overheard FD’A often yelling at Barry about financing, and needing investment money. Barry was quiet, not the type to shout back. He’d ask probing questions. Shashank suggested to Barry that he (Shashank) could ‘call security and get this guy thrown out’. Barry said no.

-Steelback under FD’A’s control, Steelback mounted up $120 million in debt from over 400 creditors, $101 million of that debt was owed to Barry.

-Sherman heirs disliked FD’A, and asked Jack Kay to tell him he was not invited to the memorial or funeral.

-Steelback formation and it’s quick rise and fall was discussed, Jonathon took control from FD’A, but it went under.

-Steelback beer was terrible.

-everyone described Barry’s & FD’A’s relationship as odd. KD speculates that Barry treated him like a son, and Jonathon wanted that attention from Barry for himself.

-person quoted as saying Barry loved FD’A (as a friend).

-FD’A talked about what a good friend he was to him.

-FD’A’s best story about Barry: Barry called him one afternoon and asked him if they could meet to discuss something, and suggested FD’A’s restaurant which wasn’t open at that hour. FD’A meets him and Barry asked him to cook for him. Barry wanted penne and bread, and they had a few glasses of wine. They ate and talked and FD’A asked him what he wanted to talk to him about. Barry said ‘nothing. I just wanted to have lunch.’ FD’A said why didn’t you just ask me to make you lunch?! and Barry laughed. He was too embarrassed to just ask him to cook for him.

-FD’A said he spoke to Barry ‘every day’, except for that last week. He spoke to him only on Monday, after Barry missed FD’A ‘s Christmas lunch. (My note: KD has reportedly reported that call happened on Tuesday night, the day before the murders.)

-frequent cuts to the graphic design images of Barry and Honey deceased in the pool room, with close ups and from different angles.

-KD said that he and the private investigators have checked, and FD’A has an alibi for the evening of the murders.

-FD’A is upset that he’s portrayed as ‘shady’.

-MS reportedly told KD that she didn’t think FD’A was involved because he ‘lost everything’ when Barry died.

-KD talks about setting up the meeting with Jonathon. (Details have been previously reported, I won’t repeat them. There’s a summary and excerpt in the media thread.)

-KD believes Barry looked at FD’A like a son, a son who really tried hard.

-KD gets into the 2015 email argument between Barry and Jonathon about FD’A, and ‘palace coup’ ( also on media page).

-Brian Greenspan team investigation details, all things we know.

-KD believes the Thursday morning visitor was a plain clothed police officer responding to a 911 call that was made, possibly by Honey the night before. (More of that in next episode.)

-The trustees didn’t want it to be known who they were. A Sherman friend on the documentary said she knew of a home (in Forest Hill) that Barry had bought. After the murders, the owners on title were changed to the trustees of the estate. (Why the home was involved is not explained.)

-destruction of 50 Old Colony, a friend watched it and saw Honey’s table lamp and desk chair she used, and family photographs destroyed. It was sad.

-police have a theory of case, they just can’t prove it. It’s related to the estate.

-Alexandra has told many people that she suspects Jonathon, it’s not a secret.

-preview of Episode 4: did Honey have a will? KD’s visit to Jonathon’s home. KD has a theory.

My husband watched this episode with me, he does not follow the case as I do, he gets some chit chat from me about what we talk about here sometimes but that is all.

I am not sure at what point he turned and said to me, KD thinks JS did it! I asked how he came to that conclusion and he said that is the impression he is getting from the dialogue and the tone changes in KD voice when he speaks of him.

For myself watching a thought came to my mind, if FD'A was truly the $$ draining problem for the family, why not remove FD'A from the equation, instead the choice was to remove HS & BS? IMO someone wanted control of how the money is spent for all, not just FD'A. All of a sudden BS's money was being spent on many people and things that it had not been spent on before, and in greater sums than had ever been given to anyone to date.

The questions I am left with pertaining to KD crumbs he leaves toward who he thinks is responsible, KD believes HS was accosted as soon as she arrived home, either someone was inside or ambushed as she entered and killed shortly after. He believes the same for BS, ambushed and killed shortly after entry.

Why tie her hands? during the doc, they have hands tied with zip ties close up, but it is said verbally they do not know if the hands were tied in front of the body or behind.

I have wondered if the WM/NW waited outside until BS came home, ran down the ramp to the underground and followed BS in. (set of prints the furnace man saw when he exited the garage that Friday morning) .

BS is quickly tied up and they go up to get HS who by now knows something is wrong downstairs and tries to find her phone and hide to call for help. HS is found and quickly controlled and tied up, taken to the basement. Or the culprit could have taken BS upstairs with him and used this to stop HS from speaking to 911? Now take both to the basement out of view from any neighbors.

Again IMO with what we know thus far, if the LE are accurate and this case is somehow about the estate is it the estate trustee's that is what is of interest or all of the estate heirs? if trustees, it narrows the suspect list down to 3 now, or 3+ whoever may be closely connected to one of the 3. It was 4, did JK not remove himself as a trustee after he was walked out of Apotex?) that leaves JS, AK and AG.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Thank you Lexi! I'm not surprised that FD'A wasn't liked by a lot of people as I find him way too full of himself. Interesting that JK told Barry to rid himself of FD'A but I seem to remember that the 2 of them had lunch after Barry passed. Wonder why.

Also about the Forest Hill house, that's kind of odd. I can see them changing it to the name of the heirs once the will was read but the trustees? I wonder what it means? It must be relevant otherwise why include it in the story?

I assume the title/deed was owned by Sherfam corp and if it was to be resold it could not be in the deceased name so they recalled the "loan". Also a good quick way to get MS out of any decision making.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

He says in this clip that he never had an argument with Barry in 17 years. I guess yelling at someone to the point it can be heard through closed doors isn't an argument because it's one sided.

no offense to anyone intended here, my boss and his wife who works in the office are Italian and they do not have a low or quiet voice even when whispering it is not soft, the tone is deep and loud to most of us in the office space, through walls etc. so not sure if this was what FD'A thinks as yelling.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

th

you might try reasonable explanations
but burying photos of the dead and those statues and fast enough is as creepy as it gets ..you see that on tv possibly
jmo

The only thoughts I can come up with is that the family did not want anyone outside of family to have these mementoes, items, they wanted to bury them so no one could get to them.

To avoid situations like walking by an antique shop and seeing all of your parents personal items.

The home had professionals go through to stage it, the home was decluttered, possibly what was left would cost more money to remove and donate than it would to just demolish it all.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

so i wonder why those filthy rich dont banish thier children from thier wills ..naming grandchildren instead for ex but only if thier death isnt by murder or somthin
this kinda eminates a motive

Who wants to think their family wants to kill them off? this is like a prenup. insulting to one maybe not so insulting to the other.

We hear that many rich people do as you say, and then by the time the grandchild is old enough to inherit the $$ is all gone.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

H

His, Honey’s and/or their estates lawyer. Can that be a coincidence?

HS could have referred to BS will as her own will, she is covered and taken care of in the BS / Estate will and she maybe was in to the law office to sign something BS had already had prepared with DH?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

the mysterious holes in the wall

someone said those could be from the demolition crew, looking for the gas line to the fireplace in the bedroom that makes total logical sense, since the housekeeper started cleaning upstairs and did not see any holes in the bedroom wall.

No way did this happen before or during the murders, the holes must have come after the morning of Dec 15th.

 

[Sphinx]

My husband watched this episode with me, he does not follow the case as I do, he gets some chit chat from me about what we talk about here sometimes but that is all.

I am not sure at what point he turned and said to me, KD thinks JS did it! I asked how he came to that conclusion and he said that is the impression he is getting from the dialogue and the tone changes in KD voice when he speaks of him.

For myself watching a thought came to my mind, if FD'A was truly the $$ draining problem for the family, why not remove FD'A from the equation, instead the choice was to remove HS & BS? IMO someone wanted control of how the money is spent for all, not just FD'A. All of a sudden BS's money was being spent on many people and things that it had not been spent on before, and in greater sums than had ever been given to anyone to date.

The questions I am left with pertaining to KD crumbs he leaves toward who he thinks is responsible, KD believes HS was accosted as soon as she arrived home, either someone was inside or ambushed as she entered and killed shortly after. He believes the same for BS, ambushed and killed shortly after entry.

Why tie her hands? during the doc, they have hands tied with zip ties close up, but it is said verbally they do not know if the hands were tied in front of the body or behind.

I have wondered if the WM/NW waited outside until BS came home, ran down the ramp to the underground and followed BS in. (set of prints the furnace man saw when he exited the garage that Friday morning) .

BS is quickly tied up and they go up to get HS who by now knows something is wrong downstairs and tries to find her phone and hide to call for help. HS is found and quickly controlled and tied up, taken to the basement. Or the culprit could have taken BS upstairs with him and used this to stop HS from speaking to 911? Now take both to the basement out of view from any neighbors.

Again IMO with what we know thus far, if the LE are accurate and this case is somehow about the estate is it the estate trustee's that is what is of interest or all of the estate heirs? if trustees, it narrows the suspect list down to 3 now, or 3+ whoever may be closely connected to one of the 3. It was 4, did JK not remove himself as a trustee after he was walked out of Apotex?) that leaves JS, AK and AG.

It is hard to think about, but people would really struggle while being strangled, and so having their wrists zip tied would make it much easier to control them quickly, and then use some kind of narrow soft ligature on the neck to murder them; the belts were applied after death.

I even wondered if their ankles may have been zip tied too, and clothing prevented the pathologists from finding any marks. I read many months ago that the legs of a body are often crossed to make it easier to move by two people, one holding the body under the shoulders, and one holding the feet and lower legs. It could be that Barry's legs were left crossed and a zip tie was removed at the ankles.
In the brief struggle, one would think that his glasses would come off, and were then replaced, but maybe not. I believe KD has said that he thinks this could be an act associated with guilt, and a warped sense of posing his body with some dignity. Honey was not given the same consideration it seems, since blood was left on her face. If a family member, or someone very close to them, were there, even if someone else actually killed them, then that could explain it, or it could have just been part of the staging, trying to make it look like Barry committed suicide peacefully, after killing Honey. Interestingly enough, I read a long time ago that suicide victims often take their glasses off before they kill themselves by different means.


I assume the killers wore something like latex gloves, so as to not leave any fingerprints. They likely also had their hair covered to as not to leave any traces on the clothes of Honey or Barry, but one has to wonder about some small transfer of fibers, or something else, onto the clothing of the victims, or the floor or steps near the pool, and/or where they were first attacked, particularly since there would be some kind of struggle and close contact.

Could there be any killer dna on the clothing of the victims? I assume the clothing has been kept as evidence, and has been very closely examined. In future as dna testing becomes more and more sophisticated, perhaps even breathing on a victim will leave evidence.

Just my own speculation for your consideration, and IMO

 

[MerlinFalcon]

It is hard to think about, but people would really struggle while being strangled, and so having their wrists zip tied would make it much easier to control them quickly, and then use some kind of narrow soft ligature on the neck to murder them; the belts were applied after death.

I even wondered if their ankles may have been zip tied too, and clothing prevented the pathologists from finding any marks. I read many months ago that the legs of a body are often crossed to make it easier to move by two people, one holding the body under the shoulders, and one holding the feet and lower legs. It could be that Barry's legs were left crossed and a zip tie was removed at the ankles.
In the brief struggle, one would think that his glasses would come off, and were then replaced, but maybe not. I believe KD has said that he thinks this could be an act associated with guilt, and a warped sense of posing his body with some dignity. Honey was not given the same consideration it seems, since blood was left on her face. If a family member, or someone very close to them, were there, even if someone else actually killed them, then that could explain it, or it could have just been part of the staging, trying to make it look like Barry committed suicide peacefully, after killing Honey. Interestingly enough, I read a long time ago that suicide victims often take their glasses off before they kill themselves by different means.


I assume the killers wore something like latex gloves, so as to not leave any fingerprints. They likely also had their hair covered to as not to leave any traces on the clothes of Honey or Barry, but one has to wonder about some small transfer of fibers, or something else, onto the clothing of the victims, or the floor or steps near the pool, and/or where they were first attacked, particularly since there would be some kind of struggle and close contact.

Could there be any killer dna on the clothing of the victims? I assume the clothing has been kept as evidence, and has been very closely examined. In future as dna testing becomes more and more sophisticated, perhaps even breathing on a victim will leave evidence.

Just my own speculation for your consideration, and IMO

Could there be DNA, yes. I'm very curious about her coat since she wasn't wearing it when she was found. Was there DNA on it so the killer took it with him/her?

 

[dotr]

Happily discovered that i do get the KD Crave doc. after all!

Posting this meanwhile...

''Mar 10, 2023 #InvestigationDiscovery #StillAMystery
Billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman are found murdered in their Toronto mansion, their bodies posed to resemble statues elsewhere in the house. Wild theories emerge as investigators find no shortage of suspicious characters with possible motives. Four years later, police release surveillance footage that could crack the case.''

 

[WINDSOR]

Oland was found not guilty… I agree there were red flags MOO

He was found guilty of murder by a jury, and sentenced to life. He did serve 10 months of his sentence.

He appealed, and was granted a second trial, this time by judge only, no jury. He was found not guilty, I believe primarily, because of errors made by Law Enforcement in conducting the investigation.

The police are not seeking another suspect as far as I know.

 

[WINDSOR]

Bobbi Pearl said "I am not sure at what point he turned and said to me, KD thinks JS did it! I asked how he came to that conclusion and he said that is the impression he is getting from the dialogue and the tone changes in KD voice when he speaks of him."

If there was a vote by Websleuthers, as to who they thought did it, I think many would agree on that point.

 

[WINDSOR]

It is hard to think about, but people would really struggle while being strangled, and so having their wrists zip tied would make it much easier to control them quickly, and then use some kind of narrow soft ligature on the neck to murder them; the belts were applied after death.

I even wondered if their ankles may have been zip tied too, and clothing prevented the pathologists from finding any marks. I read many months ago that the legs of a body are often crossed to make it easier to move by two people, one holding the body under the shoulders, and one holding the feet and lower legs. It could be that Barry's legs were left crossed and a zip tie was removed at the ankles.
In the brief struggle, one would think that his glasses would come off, and were then replaced, but maybe not. I believe KD has said that he thinks this could be an act associated with guilt, and a warped sense of posing his body with some dignity. Honey was not given the same consideration it seems, since blood was left on her face. If a family member, or someone very close to them, were there, even if someone else actually killed them, then that could explain it, or it could have just been part of the staging, trying to make it look like Barry committed suicide peacefully, after killing Honey. Interestingly enough, I read a long time ago that suicide victims often take their glasses off before they kill themselves by different means.


I assume the killers wore something like latex gloves, so as to not leave any fingerprints. They likely also had their hair covered to as not to leave any traces on the clothes of Honey or Barry, but one has to wonder about some small transfer of fibers, or something else, onto the clothing of the victims, or the floor or steps near the pool, and/or where they were first attacked, particularly since there would be some kind of struggle and close contact.

Could there be any killer dna on the clothing of the victims? I assume the clothing has been kept as evidence, and has been very closely examined. In future as dna testing becomes more and more sophisticated, perhaps even breathing on a victim will leave evidence.

Just my own speculation for your consideration, and IMO

Any DNA from somebody who was known to frequent 50 Old Colony (Family; staff; RE agents) would be irrelevant. Any 'strangers' likely would have taken precautions such as gloves, masks, booties, even painter-type suits.

 

[ldlager]

My husband watched this episode with me, he does not follow the case as I do, he gets some chit chat from me about what we talk about here sometimes but that is all.

I am not sure at what point he turned and said to me, KD thinks JS did it! I asked how he came to that conclusion and he said that is the impression he is getting from the dialogue and the tone changes in KD voice when he speaks of him.

For myself watching a thought came to my mind, if FD'A was truly the $$ draining problem for the family, why not remove FD'A from the equation, instead the choice was to remove HS & BS? IMO someone wanted control of how the money is spent for all, not just FD'A. All of a sudden BS's money was being spent on many people and things that it had not been spent on before, and in greater sums than had ever been given to anyone to date.

The questions I am left with pertaining to KD crumbs he leaves toward who he thinks is responsible, KD believes HS was accosted as soon as she arrived home, either someone was inside or ambushed as she entered and killed shortly after. He believes the same for BS, ambushed and killed shortly after entry.

Why tie her hands? during the doc, they have hands tied with zip ties close up, but it is said verbally they do not know if the hands were tied in front of the body or behind.

I have wondered if the WM/NW waited outside until BS came home, ran down the ramp to the underground and followed BS in. (set of prints the furnace man saw when he exited the garage that Friday morning) .

BS is quickly tied up and they go up to get HS who by now knows something is wrong downstairs and tries to find her phone and hide to call for help. HS is found and quickly controlled and tied up, taken to the basement. Or the culprit could have taken BS upstairs with him and used this to stop HS from speaking to 911? Now take both to the basement out of view from any neighbors.

Again IMO with what we know thus far, if the LE are accurate and this case is somehow about the estate is it the estate trustee's that is what is of interest or all of the estate heirs? if trustees, it narrows the suspect list down to 3 now, or 3+ whoever may be closely connected to one of the 3. It was 4, did JK not remove himself as a trustee after he was walked out of Apotex?) that leaves JS, AK and AG.

Good post, thanks.
"Removing FDA from the equation" wouldn't result in the family fortune going immediately to the children/beneficiaries. BS and HS would still be alive and would still control the money. And I believe this is the crux of the LE theory- that the deaths of BOTH HS and BS was required to achieve the killers objectives. MOO

 

[ldlager]

It is hard to think about, but people would really struggle while being strangled, and so having their wrists zip tied would make it much easier to control them quickly, and then use some kind of narrow soft ligature on the neck to murder them; the belts were applied after death.

I even wondered if their ankles may have been zip tied too, and clothing prevented the pathologists from finding any marks. I read many months ago that the legs of a body are often crossed to make it easier to move by two people, one holding the body under the shoulders, and one holding the feet and lower legs. It could be that Barry's legs were left crossed and a zip tie was removed at the ankles.
In the brief struggle, one would think that his glasses would come off, and were then replaced, but maybe not. I believe KD has said that he thinks this could be an act associated with guilt, and a warped sense of posing his body with some dignity. Honey was not given the same consideration it seems, since blood was left on her face. If a family member, or someone very close to them, were there, even if someone else actually killed them, then that could explain it, or it could have just been part of the staging, trying to make it look like Barry committed suicide peacefully, after killing Honey. Interestingly enough, I read a long time ago that suicide victims often take their glasses off before they kill themselves by different means.


I assume the killers wore something like latex gloves, so as to not leave any fingerprints. They likely also had their hair covered to as not to leave any traces on the clothes of Honey or Barry, but one has to wonder about some small transfer of fibers, or something else, onto the clothing of the victims, or the floor or steps near the pool, and/or where they were first attacked, particularly since there would be some kind of struggle and close contact.

Could there be any killer dna on the clothing of the victims? I assume the clothing has been kept as evidence, and has been very closely examined. In future as dna testing becomes more and more sophisticated, perhaps even breathing on a victim will leave evidence.

Just my own speculation for your consideration, and IMO

Your point about BS' ankles possibly being bound is an excellent one. I wonder if the autopsy included an examination of his ankles for possible restraint markings. Even if the restraints were applied over the clothes or socks, I wonder if they could still leave marks on or under the skin?