CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[RHR]

Just to be clear, the arterial road that is east of The Old Colony Rd, is spelled Leslie.
I agree that the WM was likely picked up on Leslie St.

Leslie Street
George Leslie was a Scot who immigrated to Toronto in 1824. He worked as a builder on the Parliament Buildings and Upper Canada College. In 1834, Leslie co-founded the Toronto Horticultural Society. In 1837, he opened Upper Canada’s first seed store and operated the Toronto Nurseries in 1845 with his sons on about 200 acres east of the Don River. The gardens and some of the trees at Mount Pleasant Cemetery and in Allan Gardens, as well as some trees used in British shipbuilding, came from Leslie’s nursery. Many of the oldest trees were planted because of Leslie, and the city’s chestnut trees exist because of an oversupply – he sold them to the city at a discounted rate. Leslie was on the Toronto City Council, a member of the volunteer fire department, a founding member of the local Presbyterian church and he also worked as postmaster in the neighbourhood that became Leslieville in 1860.

My spelling is the worst!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I wonder if the WM et el scouted the streets ahead of time for cameras on houses and picked the least risky route based on that.

 

[dotr]

dbm.

 

[Cedars]

I agree that it seems like the killer(s) meticulously planned this “commute”. I don’t see, however, why this means that they must be from another country. If anything, I think it’s more likely they were local and had sussed it out.

I think parking on those highbrow, mostly empty streets, would be risky. It's unusual, a homeowner/neighbour might be suspicious and therefore notice and remember a strange vehicle parked in front of their home. There's only a limited number of makes/models/colour of cars, unless the killer has driven it from a long way away, police can and will check all similar vehicles in databases. Whereas there are no databases of pedestrians wearing bulky winter clothes.

JMO

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

It was on Beaverhall.
View attachment 478117
Google Maps image.

Thank you, Lexiintoronto!
and for the map showing the proximity to the area

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I wonder if the WM et el scouted the streets ahead of time for cameras on houses and picked the least risky route based on that.

If that were me attempting to avoid cameras I would then walk on the road not the sidewalk. I would zig zag where I knew cameras were or weren’t. It would be nice if we had facts of the route the WM took, and at what points were they caught on camera along that route, I feel LE are withholding the other shots for a reason.

Maybe this should be considered a cold case now and have a new group start a new investigation.

I also had a thought, what if the WM was a local who took a specific route to get the # of KM they want to walk in a day and they actually walked to the synagogue, then walked the same streets home after choir practice? What if WM is not the killer.

I remember when this hit the news, living in the GTA at the time, it was so very very cold and windy and multiple snow falls that week. Bitter windchills just walking to your car was harsh, most people were bundled up inside or that is where you were trying to get to, hoods up and on a mission, not overly observant of what others are doing IMO.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

If that were me attempting to avoid cameras I would then walk on the road not the sidewalk. I would zig zag where I knew cameras were or weren’t. It would be nice if we had facts of the route the WM took, and at what points were they caught on camera along that route, I feel LE are withholding the other shots for a reason.

Maybe this should be considered a cold case now and have a new group start a new investigation.

I also had a thought, what if the WM was a local who took a specific route to get the # of KM they want to walk in a day and they actually walked to the synagogue, then walked the same streets home after choir practice? What if WM is not the killer.

I remember when this hit the news, living in the GTA at the time, it was so very very cold and windy and multiple snow falls that week. Bitter windchills just walking to your car was harsh, most people were bundled up inside or that is where you were trying to get to, hoods up and on a mission, not overly observant of what others are doing IMO.

I thought of walking on the street as well, but if there is a house with a camera and a streetlight, that would be an issue.

I think that if the things they're looking for in other countries don't give them enough for an arrest, they will declare this a cold case.

 

[hexicon]

I think parking on those highbrow, mostly empty streets, would be risky. It's unusual, a homeowner/neighbour might be suspicious and therefore notice and remember a strange vehicle parked in front of their home. There's only a limited number of makes/models/colour of cars, unless the killer has driven it from a long way away, police can and will check all similar vehicles in databases. Whereas there are no databases of pedestrians wearing bulky winter clothes.

JMO

I agree that it seems like the killer(s) meticulously planned this “commute”. I don’t see, however, why this means that they must be from another country. If anything, I think it’s more likely they were local and had sussed it out.

This is just me spinning nonsense, but a locally hired killer would have to worry more about being recognized.

Think about how easy it is to identify someone we know well through shape and gait even with minimal visual information. Bulky winter clothing helps by hiding these cues. Also, those who are close enough to hired killers to recognize them on walk and physique are likely disinclined to help the police. But still, there's a risk that someone like your barista or grocery clerk could recognize you. (OTOH compare Delphi, where the defendant worked a public-facing job in a small town yet no one linked him to the video; not saying RH is guilty but he does have enough resemblance that you'd think someone would have called it in.)

For this reason I think a local killer would have a strong incentive to minimize time on video. Perhaps they would steal a car to drive up to the house and then destroy it afterward. I've long speculated that this was a foreign hired team and they were back on their way to Russia or the Middle East, so walking instead of stealing a car to me seems more consistent with a foreign team. JMO of course

 

[newclues]

It was on Beaverhall.
View attachment 478117
Google Maps image.

Do you know the exact number on Beaverhall Dr?

 

[newclues]

He could have also made his way to Stubbs. Stubbs is a dead end except there is a staircase that takes you onto Lesley. Just south of the 401 and with absolutely no homes or business's in the area of Lesley.

IMO I believe that the suspect took to walking south along the rail line to get out of the area less noticed.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Do you know the exact number on Beaverhall Dr?

I used to know it, but I don’t recall it offhand.

The address is somewhere online, possibly in a legal document.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Seeing that it took police 6 years to charge the 5 Hockey Canada players gives me hope for this case. Of course, every case is different and crimes go unresolved but it just shows that just because we aren't being told anything it doesn't mean they aren't working behind the scenes and keeping quiet.

 

[ldlager]

Just wondering why the WM would have risked walking so far and past so many potential cameras to get to Leslie Street When Bayview Ave was so much closer to the Sherman house?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

IMO I believe that the suspect took to walking south along the rail line to get out of the area less noticed.

I was thinking he did not care if he was caught on any cameras, LE have this person from multiple cameras over multiple KM’s. I think he was semi disguised and did not fear any recognition.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Just wondering why the WM would have risked walking so far and past so many potential cameras to get to Leslie Street When Bayview Ave was so much closer to the Sherman house?

I asked a similar question when I joined WS and a reply was that Bayview is a busy street, many cars, potential pedestrians and buses along this street.

I have a nagging feeling the WM did not use any vehicle transportation and potentially entered a residence somewhere past this last camera. my curiosity asks me, how many homes past #59 had cameras, did any homes on a side street between #59 and that side street have cameras? Meaning how many homes could they have potentially entered?

They could easily have entered a home and then left a driveway or garage with a vehicle. So again I ask myself how many Airbnb or short term rentals are in the area?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It would clear up some mysteries for me if we found out the WM lived in the area of Bannatyne at the time of the murders. He was first caught on cctv at around 8:30, according to KD’s sources. That’s close to the time Barry left Apotex and minutes after Honey arrived home (again according to his sources, so that’s not set in stone).

From one of the recent Star articles:
“Police announced in 2021 that they had come up empty-handed. They have no idea who the “walking man” is, though they believe he was one of the killers or a lookout that night.”

That’s the first time I’ve noticed KD has written that the police believe there was more than killer at the scene. Before he has said it’s his opinion, iirc. The police previously said it’s possible the WM wasn’t acting alone.

 

[ldlager]

I asked a similar question when I joined WS and a reply was that Bayview is a busy street, many cars, potential pedestrians and buses along this street.

I have a nagging feeling the WM did not use any vehicle transportation and potentially entered a residence somewhere past this last camera. my curiosity asks me, how many homes past #59 had cameras, did any homes on a side street between #59 and that side street have cameras? Meaning how many homes could they have potentially entered?

They could easily have entered a home and then left a driveway or garage with a vehicle. So again I ask myself how many Airbnb or short term rentals are in the area?

Bayview is busy but Leslie is also a busy arterial road. It would have buses also. Anyways, he chose to head east for whatever reason, perhaps to a rented location as you have suggested.

 

[FPoulet]

Personally I don’t see the likelihood of a nearby rented space. Why would a perp do that? Wouldn’t that just lead to more avenues for possible tracing of the perp? Booking name, contact info, credit card/payment method, people spotting someone new in the hood, etc. — all increase the odds of IDing a suspect, no matter how people try to mask or cover their true identity.

On the other hand, dispersing into a major city via a bus or a ride — especially if the pick up is in a camera-free zone (which posters have speculated about above) — eliminates all of those extra opportunities for tracing the perp’s identity. I think the person(s) came and went, not from nearby.

 

[WINDSOR]

I think parking on those highbrow, mostly empty streets, would be risky. It's unusual, a homeowner/neighbour might be suspicious and therefore notice and remember a strange vehicle parked in front of their home. There's only a limited number of makes/models/colour of cars, unless the killer has driven it from a long way away, police can and will check all similar vehicles in databases. Whereas there are no databases of pedestrians wearing bulky winter clothes.

JMO

Just based on my own sense, most residents are not conscious of parked vehicles on their street, unless there are very many, "oh someone is having a party' or the vehicle is unusual, 'gee there is an ambulance on the street' or the car impedes them. 'I cannot get out of my driveway'.

Secondly, most people cannot identify makes and models and colors very well especially in the dark.
'It was a black Mercedes, but it might have been dark grey, dark green, dark brown, or dark blue. It could have been an Audi, or a Lexus or Chrysler'. How many Mercedes and similar shaped cars, in dark colors, are in the Ontario database? Thousands, hundreds of thousands?

 

[Cedars]

Just based on my own sense, most residents are not conscious of parked vehicles on their street, unless there are very many, "oh someone is having a party' or the vehicle is unusual, 'gee there is an ambulance on the street' or the car impedes them. 'I cannot get out of my driveway'.

Secondly, most people cannot identify makes and models and colors very well especially in the dark.
'It was a black Mercedes, but it might have been dark grey, dark green, dark brown, or dark blue. It could have been an Audi, or a Lexus or Chrysler'. How many Mercedes and similar shaped cars, in dark colors, are in the Ontario database? Thousands, hundreds of thousands?

Have you followed how LE solved the Gilgo Beach killer case, the Idaho 4 case, the Dan Markel case? Sightings of vehicles were important in all 3, these are just off the top of my head.

All 3 killers assumed no one would recognize their vehicle, or police wouldn't track it down, and they were all 3 wrong. But sure, we know this is a particularly dumb criminal, so why would he bother being careful?

JMO