CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24
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Re: No broken hyoid bones. According to a paper from the National Library of Medicine.
The hyoid is the U-shaped bone of the neck that is fractured in one-third of all homicides by strangulation. On this basis, postmortem detection of hyoid fracture is relevant to the diagnosis of strangulation. However, since many cases lack a hyoid fracture, the absence of this finding does not exclude strangulation as a cause of death. The reasons why some hyoids fracture and others do not may relate to the nature and magnitude of force applied to the neck, age of the victim, nature of the instrument (ligature or hands) used to strangle, and intrinsic anatomic features of the hyoid bone.
I do not believe we can deduce much about the assailant(s) from the fact the hyoid bones were unbroken.
The hyoid is the U-shaped bone of the neck that is fractured in one-third of all homicides by strangulation. On this basis, postmortem detection of hyoid fracture is relevant to the diagnosis of strangulation. However, since many cases lack a hyoid fracture, the absence of this finding does not exclude strangulation as a cause of death. The reasons why some hyoids fracture and others do not may relate to the nature and magnitude of force applied to the neck, age of the victim, nature of the instrument (ligature or hands) used to strangle, and intrinsic anatomic features of the hyoid bone.
I do not believe we can deduce much about the assailant(s) from the fact the hyoid bones were unbroken.
The hyoid bone appears to be located relatively high on the neck and I would imagine it’s relatively easy to strangle someone by applying a ligature below the hyoid bone. What all that means I don’t know, but it could be evidence of the height of the killer or whether the Sherman’s were standing or kneeling when they were strangled. I would hope LE has some scientific pr physical/physiological insight into this.
Forensic Science International
Volume 207, Issues 1–3, 15 April 2011rbbm.
''The province of Quebec (Canada) operates under a coroner system. A coroner may or may not, in performing his death investigation, order a forensic autopsy. In Quebec, a single centralized forensic laboratory covers the entire population of 7.5. Over an 8.5-year period (2000–mid 2009), all autopsy cases performed at this laboratory were retrospectively reviewed for suicidal hanging deaths. During the study period, six forensic pathologists worked at one time or another in the forensic
Incidence and distribution of fractures of the neck structures
Of the 206 suicidal hangings, most cases did not present any fracture of the neck structures (72%). Of the 28% of victims presenting with a fracture of the neck structure, the majority presented with an isolated fracture of the thyroid cartilage. The distribution of fractures is depicted in Table 1.Incidence of fracture in relation to age and gender
The incidence of neck structure fractures increased with age (χ2 = 21.85; p < .001). Victims of less than 40 years of age presented an incidence of fracture of 18% whereas this incidence increased
I believe that the fact the hyoid bones were intact is not significant, as there is significant other evidence that the Sherman's were asphyxiated with a ligature.
Regardless if the NW acted alone or not, IMO the key to solving this case if discovering who he is, where he came from, and if someone hired him and similar other questions.
Regardless if the NW acted alone or not, IMO the key to solving this case if discovering who he is, where he came from, and if someone hired him and similar other questions.
- I understand that NASA has done some work with facial recognition analysis, has the TPS contacted NASA?
- Does the TPS have any video of how the NW arrived and departed from the area. Bus, Car, Taxi?
- Has the TPS involved CSIS, Canada's spy agency for assistance?
- Was the NW and Canadian resident, or from elsewhere?
My respectiv3 guesses: doubtful, likely not; you’re kidding, right?; I assume tps doesn’t know
If you are correct, that the TPS does not know much about the NW, we may never see this case resolved.
Now I doubt the TPS would come forward at a Press Conference and say "Even though there is a $35 million reward, and we have been investigating for years, we only have some theories, but no real evidence."
This might be a case where the TPS by keeping everything secret and confidential, has hurt themselves in the investigation process. Too bad those in community leadership roles in Toronto, are not advocating for more openness and attention by the TPS.
Imagine if it were not for the efforts Kevin Donavan and the Toronto Star, this case would be long forgotten.
It would help if all mistakes in all of the released to the public police affidavits with redactions were fully corrected.
It seems not only do we have to deal with not knowing what the redacted information is, but also with errors that only serve to confuse us reading them, especially when such same errors occur in several/all of them. Feels like censorship.
It seems not only do we have to deal with not knowing what the redacted information is, but also with errors that only serve to confuse us reading them, especially when such same errors occur in several/all of them. Feels like censorship.
Bang on! Furthermore, given all the mistakes and errors in these documents, one has to question the thoroughness, coordination, and effectiveness of the fact checking carried out by LE during this investigation.
And yet Chief Saunders proclaimed at the press conference announcing the double murders that he KNEW the murder was watching.
He said “the suspects” are watching the press conference. Does that mean TPS had specific suspects at that time?
Chief Saunders resigned in June of 2020 at the age of 58. Two and a half years after the Sherman's deaths.
Saunders had a Kidney transplant in October 2017, and had required dialysis prior to the surgery, his health was not optimal at the time and likely spurred his retirement.
fadedglitter
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It’s very normal for police to say the perpetrators are watching the public statements police make. I wouldn’t read anything into this either way. If anything it would be notable if the police said they weren’t at all concerned that the perpetrator would watch the press conference.
I am not understanding why this is relevant? And his health didn’t stop him from running for Mayor of Toronto afterwards.
Only relevant in the context that this crime took place on his watch and he appeared totally vested in solving this case.
So with him retiring and being replaced with an interim chief, some of the momentum in solving the case could have been lost.
I believe the Chief has the ability to control budget and resources that are allocated to certain investigations. That is one way to either encourage or stifle progress.
IMO
Danaya
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I'm watching the documentary "Billionaire Murders" with Kevin Donovan on Crave. Please don't come for me, these are just my opinions. I realize that I'm not as well versed in the intricacies of this case as most of you posting here over the years are.
So, right now I'm at the part where they go into the relationship FD had with Barry. He says that police only interviewed him once? That seems odd, considering how close he says they were. I wonder what him and Barry would have screaming matches over? The man who worked in the office beside Barry's said that he could hear FD swearing and getting mad with Barry.
I also wonder why JS didn't want Kevin Donovan to record their conversation? Does anyone else find that weird? I can't imagine why, unless JS was just feeling paranoid. I think both JS and FD were jealous of eachothers place in Barry's life. Both relied on Barry HEAVILY for their personal business endeavors. I also think they could've felt resentment towards Barry for being able to obtain the level of success that they couldn't.
Yet I think Barry was too smart to be taken advantage of. I do believe he may have not realized that people in his life were plotting against him or had ill intent. JS seemed VERY entitled. It wasn't his place to tell his father what to spend money on. Barry was the genius who earned that fortune, not JS. That seems very controlling.
What confused me was the FBI profiler saying he strongly believed that this wasn't a hired hit. I've always figured it was, due to the video of the man walking at night by the Sherman home.
So, right now I'm at the part where they go into the relationship FD had with Barry. He says that police only interviewed him once? That seems odd, considering how close he says they were. I wonder what him and Barry would have screaming matches over? The man who worked in the office beside Barry's said that he could hear FD swearing and getting mad with Barry.
I also wonder why JS didn't want Kevin Donovan to record their conversation? Does anyone else find that weird? I can't imagine why, unless JS was just feeling paranoid. I think both JS and FD were jealous of eachothers place in Barry's life. Both relied on Barry HEAVILY for their personal business endeavors. I also think they could've felt resentment towards Barry for being able to obtain the level of success that they couldn't.
Yet I think Barry was too smart to be taken advantage of. I do believe he may have not realized that people in his life were plotting against him or had ill intent. JS seemed VERY entitled. It wasn't his place to tell his father what to spend money on. Barry was the genius who earned that fortune, not JS. That seems very controlling.
What confused me was the FBI profiler saying he strongly believed that this wasn't a hired hit. I've always figured it was, due to the video of the man walking at night by the Sherman home.
Ex-FBI profiler Julia Cowley looks at the murders of Honey and Barry Sherman
Julia Cowley is a retired FBI agent and profiler.
courthousestories.substack.com
Oct 24, 2023
''A lot of people can't let go of the idea that it was a hitman.
There are indications that this is probably somebody close to them that knew their patterns, that knew the best time to approach the house, how to approach the house, where to go in the house, knowing that there wasn't going to be anybody else there, spending the additional time in the house that it took to move their bodies and stage them.
You cannot rule out their very close family members until you can completely rule them out. However, it sounds to me, in terms of what I've read, that it's been the children that have pushed the narrative that this is not a double, or murder suicide or double suicide. And, so, why would they do that?''
All good observations and comments. A fresh set of eyes is always welcome so thank you.
Could there not be a hitman hired by somebody close to the deceased? It does not have to be an 'either - or'.Ann BrocklehurstEx-FBI profiler Julia Cowley looks at the murders of Honey and Barry Sherman
Julia Cowley is a retired FBI agent and profiler.
Oct 24, 2023
''A lot of people can't let go of the idea that it was a hitman.
There are indications that this is probably somebody close to them that knew their patterns, that knew the best time to approach the house, how to approach the house, where to go in the house, knowing that there wasn't going to be anybody else there, spending the additional time in the house that it took to move their bodies and stage them.
You cannot rule out their very close family members until you can completely rule them out. However, it sounds to me, in terms of what I've read, that it's been the children that have pushed the narrative that this is not a double, or murder suicide or double suicide. And, so, why would they do that?''
I believe the theory the TPS is working on is that it was somebody close to the Sherman's masterminded this. The mastermind hired a hitman. The TPS has spent most of the investigation trying to identify the hitman, and prove links between him and the mastermind. That is why all the overseas data searches.
My unwritten rules in similar cases,
1) Follow the money.
2) 80% of the time parents killed in the family home, look at children.
3) Staged bodies, usually means emotional involvement by someone.
4) Everybody lies.
5) The guilty try to throw suspicion off themselves.
(How many killers have participated in the search for a missing woman, knowing all the time where they hid the body)
MOO