CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

[Mistysues]

Yet, after she was found, the owner of the trailer said there was a foul odor back in the fall that he attributed to a sheep farm close-by. Going back to one of your early posts Dedpanman, was he trying to be helpful or did it not happen?

Check out
http://climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/...84-07-01|1985-07-31&Year=1984&Month=12&Day=01

Snowfall for that year was early October and continued. Temperatures were +10 to -15. It is quite possible that there would have been no odor and she was brought to the spot immediately.

 

[Woodland]

There was quite a fluctuation in the weather that year.

Of all the pathologists that looked at the case, either in person or from pictures/reports, the Vancouver pathologist seems to have done the most thorough job by covering all aspects, including what was not there. No insect activity and soil samples show no decomp material. His conclusion was she was not there until mid-December or later and was in a protected state until placed in Sunderland.

His thoroughness has me siding with his opinion.

 

[matou]

If you asked almost anyone first hearing of this to venture a guess why they thought she may have been targetted, this just jumps out at you. Its highly abnormal.

When did the abuse involving the boys stop? This has always upset me so much to not want to participate in forums on the case. It's clear to me the motive for her murder was sexual. The perp wanted to rape her and he did and he ravaged her body using brutal violence against her, likely because she was crying and he wanted her to shut up. What happened to this perp? Did he die in jail? Did he move to a different location? The nature of the crime strongly suggests a sadistic perp who would attack other children, most likely little girls.

 

[Mistysues]

Yes, Woodland, there are discrepancies between Makin and Kaufman regarding the body site. I’m going to arrange the information in a way that might allow for easier discussion and might initiate new readers who don’t have access to the materials.

Redrum will be referred to as RR. Kaufman Report as KR. Ellipsis (…) indicates an intentional omission of unnecessary words. I’ve arranged the information in a way that allows for a flow of ideas. First the setting, then the general location of the remains, then the description of the remains. I will do my best to indicate in bold facts that are contradictory or seem to be contradictory.

Feel free to point out anything I miss.

KR: A rutted tractor path leading into the field from the Fourth Concession, curved in a way which precluded anyone who was walking along the path from seeing what was on the other side of the bend. The area to the west of the tractor path, as one walked south from the Fourth Concession and leading up to a clearing in which a trailer was permanently parked, was grassy, lightly wooded, and interspersed with cedar trees and growth. As the Pattersons walked along the tractor path they spotted what initially appeared to them to be garbage approximately 25 feet from the west edge of the tractor path. The trailer, which had been put there by the owners of the property, was approximately 60 to 70 feet from the site of this ‘garbage.’ The Pattersons, who were neighbours, went to the trailer to see if anyone was there. It was unoccupied and it appeared someone had broken into it.

KR: To the west of this area, the woods became more dense and forest-like.

KR: Mr. Patterson and his daughters then walked along a trail in the grass towards the site of the ‘garbage.’ The grass adjacent to the beaten down pathway was approximately 1½ feet tall. As they came closer to the site, Mr. Patterson realized that they had come upon the remains of a child. Although he had walked along this property a number of times between October 3, 1984 and December 31, 1984, this was the first time he had noticed the remains.

RR: “The tiny corpse was in a sheltered area amongst a clump of trees – sort of like a vestibule cut out of the foliage. A white birch tree towered above it like a headstone and a thin wall of cedar bushes flanked it. Stalks of goldenrod … surrounded the remains. The forest floor in this spot was of a strange texture: wisps of grass and twigs lying across dark, bare earth. Although the grass was trampled down on the direct line that Patterson had taken to view the body, there were no discernible animal tracks on the soil”

RR: “A perfect little grotto amongst the trees and scrub bush…”

KR: The small clearing surrounding the remains of Christine Jessop…

KR: Her body was on its back and decomposed. Her legs were spread apart in an unnatural position and her knees were spread outward. Animals appeared to have eaten at the legs. Her head was pointed north and her feet south. A sweater was pulled over her head. A few bones were scattered between her head and what remained of her legs, giving the appearance that her head and waist were not connected. The victim was wearing a beige turtleneck sweater, a blue pullover sweater, a blouse on which some buttons were missing and two pairs of socks. Her panties were found at her right foot. Blue corduroy pants with a belt and a pair of Nike running shoes were found just south of her feet. These clothes were subsequently identified as belonging to Christine.

RR: “Only the lower half of the body was there. It appeared the upper portion of the body had been eaten, as only bones remained. I also noted that the legs of the child appeared to be abnormally spread apart and were bent at the knees.”

RR: “Her body was so lost to decomposition that it would be unlikely to yield many clues.”

RR: “It appeared the child was lying with her back facing up. Her legs were little more than bones covered with a mummified parchment of skin. An incongruous pair of white socks with blue trim still adhered to the end of each leg—the only clothing on the body.”

RR: “I then noticed a ball of clothing off to the side of the body … This clothing was of a blue colour. I also noticed a pair of panties lying on the ground near the right leg of the deceased. To the south of the deceased, I observed more blue clothing and what appeared to be a blue running shoe. I was unable to see any arms – or the head—of the deceased.”

KR: The hand-knitted blue sweater with the zippered front and no collar, which she was last reported wearing, was not found on the body; nor was it ever located.

RR: “The first item they found was the recorder in its tan pouch with a green drawstring, located barely off the tractor path.”

KR: Her school recorder, with her name still taped on it, was found next to her body.

RR: “Moments later, they turned up a pair of buttons…”

KR: During this search, they found two pearl buttons to the west edge of the laneway which were subsequently identified as coming from the blouse of Christine Jessop.

- Was she wearing just socks or not?

 

[Mistysues]

Yes, Woodland, there are discrepancies between Makin and Kaufman regarding the body site. I’m going to arrange the information in a way that might allow for easier discussion and might initiate new readers who don’t have access to the materials.

Redrum will be referred to as RR. Kaufman Report as KR. Ellipsis (…) indicates an intentional omission of unnecessary words. I’ve arranged the information in a way that allows for a flow of ideas. First the setting, then the general location of the remains, then the description of the remains. I will do my best to indicate in bold facts that are contradictory or seem to be contradictory.

Feel free to point out anything I miss.

KR: A rutted tractor path leading into the field from the Fourth Concession, curved in a way which precluded anyone who was walking along the path from seeing what was on the other side of the bend. The area to the west of the tractor path, as one walked south from the Fourth Concession and leading up to a clearing in which a trailer was permanently parked, was grassy, lightly wooded, and interspersed with cedar trees and growth. As the Pattersons walked along the tractor path they spotted what initially appeared to them to be garbage approximately 25 feet from the west edge of the tractor path. The trailer, which had been put there by the owners of the property, was approximately 60 to 70 feet from the site of this ‘garbage.’ The Pattersons, who were neighbours, went to the trailer to see if anyone was there. It was unoccupied and it appeared someone had broken into it.

KR: To the west of this area, the woods became more dense and forest-like.

KR: Mr. Patterson and his daughters then walked along a trail in the grass towards the site of the ‘garbage.’ The grass adjacent to the beaten down pathway was approximately 1½ feet tall. As they came closer to the site, Mr. Patterson realized that they had come upon the remains of a child. Although he had walked along this property a number of times between October 3, 1984 and December 31, 1984, this was the first time he had noticed the remains.

RR: “The tiny corpse was in a sheltered area amongst a clump of trees – sort of like a vestibule cut out of the foliage. A white birch tree towered above it like a headstone and a thin wall of cedar bushes flanked it. Stalks of goldenrod … surrounded the remains. The forest floor in this spot was of a strange texture: wisps of grass and twigs lying across dark, bare earth. Although the grass was trampled down on the direct line that Patterson had taken to view the body, there were no discernible animal tracks on the soil”

RR: “A perfect little grotto amongst the trees and scrub bush…”

KR: The small clearing surrounding the remains of Christine Jessop…

KR: Her body was on its back and decomposed. Her legs were spread apart in an unnatural position and her knees were spread outward. Animals appeared to have eaten at the legs. Her head was pointed north and her feet south. A sweater was pulled over her head. A few bones were scattered between her head and what remained of her legs, giving the appearance that her head and waist were not connected. The victim was wearing a beige turtleneck sweater, a blue pullover sweater, a blouse on which some buttons were missing and two pairs of socks. Her panties were found at her right foot. Blue corduroy pants with a belt and a pair of Nike running shoes were found just south of her feet. These clothes were subsequently identified as belonging to Christine.

RR: “Only the lower half of the body was there. It appeared the upper portion of the body had been eaten, as only bones remained. I also noted that the legs of the child appeared to be abnormally spread apart and were bent at the knees.”

RR: “Her body was so lost to decomposition that it would be unlikely to yield many clues.”

RR: “It appeared the child was lying with her back facing up. Her legs were little more than bones covered with a mummified parchment of skin. An incongruous pair of white socks with blue trim still adhered to the end of each leg—the only clothing on the body.”

RR: “I then noticed a ball of clothing off to the side of the body … This clothing was of a blue colour. I also noticed a pair of panties lying on the ground near the right leg of the deceased. To the south of the deceased, I observed more blue clothing and what appeared to be a blue running shoe. I was unable to see any arms – or the head—of the deceased.”

KR: The hand-knitted blue sweater with the zippered front and no collar, which she was last reported wearing, was not found on the body; nor was it ever located.

RR: “The first item they found was the recorder in its tan pouch with a green drawstring, located barely off the tractor path.”

KR: Her school recorder, with her name still taped on it, was found next to her body.

RR: “Moments later, they turned up a pair of buttons…”

KR: During this search, they found two pearl buttons to the west edge of the laneway which were subsequently identified as coming from the blouse of Christine Jessop.

-- This makes me think she was brought directly to this site. I don't trust the testing of the dirt to say that there was not enough composition in the soil. I'll have to find it but I recall in the KR there was some discrepancy about the soil sample being from either the location or timing and unfavorable actions by The officer Michael M something.

 

[Mistysues]

There was quite a fluctuation in the weather that year.

Of all the pathologists that looked at the case, either in person or from pictures/reports, the Vancouver pathologist seems to have done the most thorough job by covering all aspects, including what was not there. No insect activity and soil samples show no decomp material. His conclusion was she was not there until mid-December or later and was in a protected state until placed in Sunderland.

His thoroughness has me siding with his opinion.

Good point but see my comment about the soil collection, Im trying to find out where I read that.

 

[orora]

When did the abuse involving the boys stop? This has always upset me so much to not want to participate in forums on the case. It's clear to me the motive for her murder was sexual. The perp wanted to rape her and he did and he ravaged her body using brutal violence against her, likely because she was crying and he wanted her to shut up. What happened to this perp? Did he die in jail? Did he move to a different location? The nature of the crime strongly suggests a sadistic perp who would attack other children, most likely little girls.

I have a few problems with this portion too. It seems to have been glossed over and by passed a little too easily for my liking. For me this is the most foundational of all that was going on in CJ's life that could have led to her murder. Apparently at some point, the brother realized he had been duped into participating and allowing things to go as far as they did. He admitted it after CJ's dissapearance and I would strongly assume told the Police who the others were. There appears to have been at least one older boy involved. Nothing about him is known.

Was someone upset or worried Christine may tell on him? Did Christine threaten to do that if someone didn't leave her alone? I believe there were calls reported being made to Christine by an older man.

Sex is the usually motivator for crimes like this against children. 90% plus. Christine was one of very very few children who was participating in sexual activities at a time way before she should. Whoever knew this, may have chose her as a target for the same reason. Two very unusual (unconnected?) things may be brought together.

Sticking with victimology a bit longer, CJ's father had just been convicted and incarcerated for a white colloar crime shortly before CJ was abducted. His words seem to indicate he thought she was targetted and it was inevitable. Why doesn't seem to be recorded and some assume some sort of retribution for Mr. Jessops crime was the motive. The plot thickens and we or at least I don't know enough details as to who was wronged and how deeply to totally go with that. I do wonder if there was any connections between who Mr. Jessop was defrauding and who Christine was being molested by?

Things can appear a certain way to someone like Mr. Jessop for his own personal reasons like the one big tree standing in his way to see the forest. It is still a consideration but maybe more valid from another perspective.

ps.. I couldn't get the weather link to show temperatures for the days in question.

The vancouver autopsy seems the best but I still wonder about some of the procedures that led to necessitating this.

 

[Mistysues]

The murder of 21 year-old Debbie Silverman is of great interest to me. Some may not know that Debbie was abducted from outside her apartment building on Bathurst Street in Toronto in August 1978, at about 5:00 am, and was found 3 months later in a shallow grave not far from where Christine was found.

To be exact, Debbie was found on Concession 3 (also marked as Regional Road 13), just north of Highway 7/12. One concession south and 1 main road west of Christine, on the same side of the road and the same distance from the corner. Pretty coincidental.

The thing about Bathurst Street is, one can take it staight to Queensville. Pretty spooky.

I also have interest in the disappearance of 12 year-old Robert Brown in 1968. He lived in the town of Wilfred (northwest of Sunderland) and was walking towards home from nearby Pefferlaw on a summer afternoon. Vanished into thin air.

It just so happens that the location of the remains of Debbie, Christine and where Robert disappeared from are 3 corners of a perfect geographic square. Don't know what to make of that, but do think geography plays a big role in many kidnap/murders.

WPS grew up and still lives near this geographic square. WPS also had family in Toronto up until or beyond the early 80's. Lizzie Tomlinson also comes to mind - disappeared May 24th weekend 1980 and her brutalized remains were found soon after. The killer spent time torturing Lizzie - more time than if rape was the only motive.

- And Cheryl Hanson Aurora

 

[Mistysues]

They were able to extract a DNA profile which means they can duplicate it and test against other suspects.

 

[Mistysues]

Here's some information about the Debbie Silverman case to bring our readers up to speed:

The body of Debbie Silverman, 21, was discovered in a shallow grave near the Village of Sunderland off Highway 12 . She was found exactly three months to the day after she had been abducted from her apartment building hallway in Toronto, Aug. 12, 1978. Her murder is a quarter of a century old, but it's a case the Ontario Provincial Police has never closed. Investigators continue to follow up any information that comes forward.

Debbie Silverman was beautiful, outgoing, vivacious, and eager to grab onto everything life had to offer. She had a good job, lots of friends, and a nearly new maroon Cordoba. She'd gone into debt to buy the car, but felt it was worth every penny. Life was good. Debbie looked forward to a future that was full of promise and hope. And then she was gone.

Debbie Silverman lived with her mother at 4854 Bathurst St. in Toronto. On the evening of Friday, Aug. 11, 1978, Debbie went on a double date in downtown Toronto with friends from work, returning to one of the friend's homes at approximately 2 a.m. Between 4 a.m. and 4:30 a.m. on Saturday, Aug. 12, she left that residence alone and headed home in her car, arriving at her apartment building, police believe, at approximately 5 a.m. She parked her vehicle in the apartment lot and entered the building through a side entrance that opened into a narrow hallway leading to the main lobby. Her purse, lace trimmed panties and a broken gold necklace were found inside the back door.

Toronto Police conducted an extensive investigation into her abduction. Buildings were searched, neighbours canvassed, and reservoirs dredged. Every tip was considered vital, and followed up.

On Sunday Novermber 12th, 1978 her body was found in a lot on a farm at an intersection of Highway 7 at Durham Regional Road 13 in the Brock Township about 42 miles east of York (see photos a few posts previous to this). Her hands were tied behind her back with the sleeves of her blue and white shirt and her black halter top was around her neck. Her brassiere was still on but she had no shoes or underwear on.

When her body was discovered north of Toronto, the investigation into the abduction of Debbie Silverman quickly turned into a hunt for her killer. Because her body was found in the jurisdiction of the Ontario Provincial Police, the OPP took the lead with the assistance of neighbouring police forces. Efforts were re-doubled, but to this day her death remains a mystery. The OPP, like her family, has no intention of forgetting Debbie, or of resting until the person or persons who ended her life are brought to justice. Modern technology and new leads hold the promise that that may yet happen.

Woodland - you feel there might be a connection between this case and Christine Jessop? If so, is there a connection other than geography? If the killer of C.J. was in his early twenties (but maybe he wasn't) in 1984, then he would have been even younger to be involved with Silverman in 1978.

The similarities are disturbing!

 

[Woodland]

Mistysues - can you clarify 'They were able to extract a DNA profile which means they can duplicate it and test against other suspects?'

In 1995 DNA could not be duplicated so one has to incorporate that fact.

Let's not introduce 'facts' unless we can prove it is a fact.

 

[Woodland]

Orora - who glossed over and passed by the molestation of Christine a little too easily for your liking? LE? The Jessops?

We don't yet know the motive for this rape and murder. If rape was a motive, the difference that should stand out is how long the killer spent with Christine torturing and mutilating her - not your run of the mill case as statistically a child abducted for rape is often dead by asphyxiation within an hour or two of abduction time. Dedpanman is likely to have more readily available info on that.

Speculation to some degree is what is needed here but the surrounding facts of this case have to be incorporated.

Bob Jessops victims were an elderly couple with no connection to the boys Ken Jessop accuses of the molestation.

There was no autopsy in Vancouver.<Mod Snip>

 

[Mistysues]

"I've always wanted to go the house now on the property and ask them if it's okay to take some pics using the written info as a guide. Maybe they are in a position to point things out."

Yes, I must admit, I've considered that too, but honestly, I wouldn't want to bother the people who live there given the fact that our information (at least mine) is so incomplete that I can't even sketch out a diagram that is even half-way definitive. I have a feeling one would be fumbling around with little success.

The crime scene is almost 30 years old, so all of the trees have grown up. The property is developed; construction vehicles and possibly earth-movers have changed the shape of the land. Trees cut down. The tractor path has been turned into a driveway, its course changed.

I can't even say for sure how far from the road the Cull's trailer was. That would be the starting point.

I guess I'm not sure that there's anything to be learned by visiting the property.

Really, to do this right, we'd need access to photographs of the site taken during the time this occurred. We'll never get the opportunity to look at police crime scene photographs, so, our best bet would be if a newspaper photographer took pictures of the place at the time (84/85) and it showed where the trailer was. Maybe a picture was published in the Toronto Star, The Sun, or the Globe and Mail?

Another option would be if a program like THE FIFTH ESTATE went to the site and filmed the location. I have not seen any of the old FIFTH ESTATE episodes about this case. I know there were at least 3 episodes that aired over the years. These episodes are (according to the CBC) apparently available but very expensive to purchase. And, ordering them isn't easy.

For now, let’s just say I live in York Region, about 25 min. away from Queensville.

You could get the crime scene photos. When a trial has taken place, the records are public records. You should be able to get copies of any photo's that were entered as evidence in the GPM trials.

 

[Mistysues]

Mistysues - can you clarify 'They were able to extract a DNA profile which means they can duplicate it and test against other suspects?'

In 1995 DNA could not be duplicated so one has to incorporate that fact.

Let's not introduce 'facts' unless we can prove it is a fact.

Sorry I'm a law student, in my final year. Bull in a china shop

In order to free GPM they HAD to have a DNA profile. And what I mean is they would of had to extract the DNA profile from the semen sample. Which they would have kept, or should have legally. Now scientists can replicate or "grow"/photocopy (sorry bad wording) more of that profile to match even if the original doesn't. Google DNA replication for crime solving.

 

[Mistysues]

Mistysues - can you clarify 'They were able to extract a DNA profile which means they can duplicate it and test against other suspects?'

In 1995 DNA could not be duplicated so one has to incorporate that fact.

Let's not introduce 'facts' unless we can prove it is a fact.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/westview/a-little-spit-could-catch-a-killer-134168263.html

 

[Woodland]

You are sort of right Mistysues - check with one of your profs if possible.

There is a crime scene DNA profile generated in 1995 and it was kept.

Science can now replicate the most minute trace of DNA and duplicate with absolute exactness - but not in 1995.

So what does science do when they have a DNA profile from pre-1997 (when the ability replicate DNA was introduced)? The ability to convert pre 1997 profiles into post 1997 profiles is very new - there is a limited use for it but it is required.

Look forward to your research. Mine is from CBR Laboratories in Boston, MA. They conducted the 1995 test that produced the DNA profile that exonerated an innocent man. They also advised in 2008 that in 2004, there was no way to test the samples that were contaminated with spilled blood - in that there was no way to be sure one had a profile that excluded the blood sample.

You seem to have the resources to verify or discount this.

 

[Woodland]

Everything on this board is speculation and theory? I didn't know that - I see a lot that is much more than that.

I know many are trying to help with legitimate research and am awed by that.

Have you read the UC site on Christine? It's a mess - many introductions of conflicting and assumed 'thoughts' that made a mockery of this case. Do not want to see that happen here. Trust that will be acceptable.

 

[bodhi93]

...Not sure what you mean Blue Hills Academy is not a school. It was back in 1974.
...

snipped by me...

I guess when I saw that Blue Hills Academy has been around since 1968, I figured it was always in the same location... Here is where I saw that information... http://donate2charities.ca/en/BLUE.HILLS.ACADEMY._.0_130624778RR0001. I haven't had much time to look into it further... :blushing:

 

[Mistysues]

Woodland, I'm confused. No conversion needs to be done to my knowledge. Could you expand on what you mean?

 

[Woodland]

The location was changed - but has been around a long time. Thanks bodhi93.