CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

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This guy is a pretty bad character no doubt.

I'm having trouble with the route he is said to have taken from Toronto to south of Sunderland via Queensville on a daily basis. I can't see that happening. Queensville Sideroad does not go to Sunderland without a detour around a river and marshy area and it has many stop signs. Ravenshoe Road comes out north of Sunderland.

Seems to me Davis Drive is the most north one would go before turning east.

Would Tweedy have checked his DNA?
 
I'm having trouble with the route he is said to have taken from Toronto to south of Sunderland via Queensville on a daily basis. I can't see that happening. Queensville Sideroad does not go to Sunderland without a detour around a river and marshy area and it has many stop signs.

Excellent point. But, if that information is correct, and Brennan was passing through Queensville on a daily basis, right around the time children are getting out from school, then he was definitely up to something nefarious - because he had no good reason to be going through that town. Was he perhaps trolling for a victim?
 
Would Tweedy have checked his DNA?

That's my issue with all this DNA-testing of suspects. What if some of these creeps said "no" when the police showed up on their doorstep and asked for a cheek swab? The police have no recourse unless they have a warrant. Did Tweedy have 300 warrants for DNA samples? Somehow, I doubt it.

How many of the suspects did not cooperate and were not cleared by DNA?
 
Jumping in to say I have read this thread with great interest. Christine was the same age as me, living in a small town not too far from where I grew up in a small town, playing with my cabbage patch doll. I remember her kidnapping.

Thank you Dedpanman for the suspect profiles, wish we had some real names to see where these people are now. They all seem like viable suspects and wish we knew if they were DNA tested.

I have a theory that I'd like to share. Perhaps Christine did ride her bike to the store, bought the gum and proceeded over to the park. At the park, or on the way there, she is hit by a car, intentionally or not. Not hard enough to injure her, but enough to damage her bike. Or maybe her bike was laying on the ground and damaged by a car. The car driver offers to drive her home, part of a preconceived plan or not. She accepts the ride and when they arrive at her home, her bike is put in the garage when the car driver asks if her parents are home. Realizes there is no one there and takes the opportunity to kidnap her.

Watching the recent Fifth Estate episode, what jumped out at me is that the fire station is right beside the park, looks like the parking lots are joined. I already had my above theory but seeing the fire trucks right there and knowing she went there with her father makes me wonder who were the volunteer firemen?
 
This guy makes for a great discussion.

If he left Toronto at 3:00 pm, he is arriving in Queensville, and other places north, after kids are out of school and home with some going back out again. He had a better chance, imo, of trolling for a kid on their own in Toronto and the GTA, however controlling them in his vehicle for the drive to Sunderland would have been more difficult.

Tweedy did not ask for cheek swabs and he says that more than once - it wasn't available to him (that part is my statement). He pricked their finger for a blood sample, according to Tweedy. Tweedy claims to have only obtained 300+ voluntary samples.

So yes, how many suspects did not cooperate and were not cleared?

There came a time though when LE could get a warrant for a DNA sample. Brennan/Atkins has done time for crimes against children. A warrant would be easy.
 
I wonder if "PB" is still alive? He would be around 74 years old.
 
I have a theory that I'd like to share. Perhaps Christine did ride her bike to the store, bought the gum and proceeded over to the park. At the park, or on the way there, she is hit by a car, intentionally or not. Not hard enough to injure her, but enough to damage her bike. Or maybe her bike was laying on the ground and damaged by a car. The car driver offers to drive her home, part of a preconceived plan or not. She accepts the ride and when they arrive at her home, her bike is put in the garage when the car driver asks if her parents are home. Realizes there is no one there and takes the opportunity to kidnap her.

Theories that her abductor took the bike back to the Jessop house after an accident of some sort don’t hold water for me, personally. Sorry. If someone is intent on taking a child – that’s what they’re focused on. They can’t be a “concerned citizen” one moment, and take her back to her house where upset parents could be waiting - and then suddenly turn into an “evil pedophile” when they discover that no one’s at the house.

If he hit her on purpose in order to make contact... okay. But, then he just drives away with Christine and the bike. He doesn’t take her home. The theory requires fuzzy, muddled motivations.

Also:

A child on a bike getting hit by a car – even in the most minimal way – would have been a highly visible incident. It’s 4:00 pm. Parents and children are arriving home. Busy traffic. And no one spotted a child tumbling off her bike after a minor collision with a car? No one saw a car and driver stopping to deal with an injured, crying child?

A bicycle lying on the ground… People would see that and come running. And they would remember it.

What happened to Christine was far more invisible.

And, I don’t know why.
 
If he left Toronto at 3:00 pm, he is arriving in Queensville, and other places north, after kids are out of school and home with some going back out again. He had a better chance, imo, of trolling for a kid on their own in Toronto and the GTA, however controlling them in his vehicle for the drive to Sunderland would have been more difficult.

One of the key points in the first edition of RR that is somewhat "softened" in the Revised Edition - is the fact that Christine spent a lot of time alone in Queensville. Makin trimmed away accounts by other people that described Christine as a latch-key kid who was always running around alone and unsupervised in that town. (Everyone in the first edition is placed under a much more critical lens.)

Now, this is absolute, pure speculation on my part, but if Brennan had seen Christine alone in Queensville, maybe he kept going back there looking for another opportunity to snatch her - specifically. If not Brennan, maybe someone like him. The perpetrator had seen Christine somewhere around Queensville alone - maybe the park – maybe the cemetery – and kept going back there, cruising around Queensville for her... searching and waiting for another opportunity... and finally got one.

I have a new interpretation of Bob Jessop's quote: "I honestly think if it hadn't been that day it would have been another."

I now think he meant: "We allowed Christine to roam around town on her own all the time and we should have known better that something like this was going to happen."

It's the verbalization of regret and realization that they, as irresponsible parents, had set up Christine to be a victim. I know that sounds harsh - but that's my new interpretation. And, as painful as that sounds, there is truth to it.

I remember all the times I was allowed to roam around my small town, alone, as a kid. My parents didn’t know where I was sometimes. My parents were lucky that nothing happened to me.

Unfortunately, the Jessops were not.
 
Very interesting the differences between the rr book one and two.

I can only think it must be due the volumous length required to incorporate all info from both as time added to it.

As per the discussion -
W.-
So yes, how many suspects did not cooperate and were not cleared?

There came a time though when LE could get a warrant for a DNA sample. Brennan/Atkins has done time for crimes against children. A warrant would be easy.

A dna warrant would still be justifiable right now imo. That need not have ended based on the previous info. Its a new day in forensics, the problem with lie detector tests well known. Has a dna test ever been performed on Brennan? There are genetic family members likely still alive if not he himself. A handwriting comparison? Anything?

I have viewed the 5th estate segment a few times and have noted the theme the pi was saying about the investigation being delayed compromised and sidetracked due the focus on GPM. The "note" from rr one furthers that by portraying GPM as definitely being guilty and someone else "knows" that for sure. Just like the prison informers from trial one claiming he confessed to the crime. The Police were actively engaged in setting up an innocent man. They knew he had a receipt to account for his whereabouts at the crutial time on that day. Yet they put informants up to testifying to this?

While at the same time they let a very viable suspect (Brennan) off the hook based on so little?

The car left on that property is a new piece to us but has been know to investigators since day one. Well actually since before CJ's remains were found. Had Police not visited the scene earlier on to investigate vandalism of the trailer? The car was parked there then too was it not? Would they not have questioned the same in regard to that crime as we are now for CJ? The original vandals knew and some member of the Durham detachment must have also known no one resided or watched that property and knew that car to be of no effect.

Its all about connections and modern forensics could still prove most helpful. A phone call away? Not likely. Unfortunately the Police alone hold the ability to pick and chose who is invetigated and tested or not. Not being the opperative word here imo.

No matter what anyone thinks or believes about how or where CJ was taken from that day, it happened and it was successful. The 5th estate story draws attention and interest once again to a very sad chapter that isn't and shouldn't just be forgotten. It isn't going away and it is up to Law enforcement to step up to the plate or remove themselves and call in an outside force. I agree with the pi, it is still solvable, ( if the politics can be straightened out.)

If there was a member of the Durham Police force who knew of the Sunderland location by way of the vandalism previously reported and who was related to the boys sexually molesting CJ, he and that detachment were (are) in a conflict of interest position. This entire case should be reinvestigated by all rights if that is true. It is still justified by the appearance of an apparent conflict whether that had any bearing or not. I personally trust nothing that has been said or done to date by any of the official investions. Others who have looked and folowed this case have come to similar conclusions. The case has been so completely botched yet Law enforcement continues to rely on what was obtained by that investigation. Numerous potentially viable suspects have been named already but what is being done with that or about that? It appears the answer is nothing. This must be addressed and a means sought to get beyond that if CJ is ever going to see justice.
Kudos to the 5th for the renewed attention..
 
I see the maybe on Brennan, but he would likely have seen her on her bike or with others at the store/park at 4:00 pm so each day. Then he had to take her unseen from the store/park or come to know where she lived with no one noticing he was watching or following her over some period of time. Bit of a stretch, imo.

If many in Queensville knew Christine was on her own after school and other times, it seems more plausible that the perp is/was one of them. No one saw anything related to her abduction - it took a planned opportunity rather than one of chance. Jmo.
 
There are two interesting posts mentioning DNA today. Both more or less wondering why that isn't working or hasn't worked yet.

Could it be that opportunity came and went?

Det Sgt Steve Ryan says in the recent Fifth Estate episode that 'we have DNA'. Why didn't he say DNA from the crime scene is in the Canadian National DNA Databank? Tweedy said that in a Globe and Mail article on 1 October 2004. Why not repeat that - if it's true, it's much more accurate and specific than 'we have DNA'.

Heck, we have a DNA profile here as well. It's useless in it's current form though.
 
That's why I found Ryan's comment interesting. He only said we have DNA, no elaboration, but I suppose on a segment in a show like Fifth Estate, then lots may be cut out, shortformed. Let's face it, an hour long show is not long enough to talk about Christine's murder, and the show was divided into 3 segments.
I know we have been through the DNA thing before, but I somehow think they must be able to update the DNA to the current testing method....but why do it until they have someone to test it against, again? Wouldn't they just wait for a sample to compare it to?
They can say what they like, as far as I know they haven't checked out anyone in years. It's not like they are super-busy in this neck of the woods, they aren't, there isn't much crime.
 
Imo, this was an opportunity for Toronto Police to put to rest any doubt that the DNA of Christine's killer is in the databank. They did not take the opportunity. 'We have DNA' is not much shorter than 'the DNA is in the databank.'

I stand by it isn't possible for a DNA profile from this crime scene to be in the databank. I doubt the RCMP would like TPS stating on The Fifth Estate the profile is there if it isn't.
 
re:dna
Perhaps the recent 5th estate episode should be viewed as an opportunity to get these questioned answered? Viewers wanted to know, are still asking questions, have now been directed back to the fifth estate for answers. It shouldn't be left like this so ambiguous after so long. The fifth could have and should have requested the Police officer to be more specific Has the dna profile been converted and entered into the dna database? Is it comparable? How many suspects were hold outs and never tested? Have there been any recent tests even in the last decade? The public has the right to know, they should know!

Brennan I agree but, anything anyone in any way can use to force a new test on any new suspect for any reason right now would "out" what they have in the way of dna. If Brennan was once viable and only dropped due to what is now known to be false science, by that he is justifiable once again for a dna warrant. Have to go with what produces results. He is a possibility to use for that purpose if nothing else. I wouldn't disregard him due the seeming impossibility of him pulling this off. No one knows who and how it was accomplished yet.

At some point there is no sense beating the bushes any longer when you already have a handful of untested poi and no means of narrowing the field. imo, this needs pushing. They go off on wild dna searches now adays casting their nets willy nilly over every male for miles around based on so very little. Every suspect mentioned here should be subject to the same. Whoever best fits the bill to warrant pushing for that is my #1 poi.
 
Right on orora - what a great idea to ask The Fifth Estate to clarify the questions. I'm going to do just that - cheers!
 
Its worth a shot. After all, a follow up story on a cold case like this is supposed to bring things up to date and dispell any lingering rumours, not just perpetuate the old excuses and maintain the staus quo. Get the 5th onside asking all the right stuff and you never know! I would encourage anyone else with questions, tips or even just comments to contact them too and express our continued interest and support in seeing this through for CJ.
cheers 2u2W.
 
I'm going to try to contact the Fifth Estate too....can't hurt.
 
I've already sent an email to Detective Sergeant Steve Ryan seeking clarification on the issue. CC'd the Fifth Estate.

I'll let everyone know if I get a response from him.

Or, no response - which is still a response...
 
Woodland, I have been thinking about your comment the other day about the property titles. They are in each Township office are they not? And, available to the public? Not sure, though, if we would have to have tax roll numbers or if the legal lot description is good enough.
Also, I wouldn't leave out the properties in the vicinity either. Just in case.
 
Good call jobo - I've marched up and down all concessions within miles of where Christine was found (on paper). The only record with an obvious alteration is the one where she was found. And the tax records are missing for that period as well? It's impossible to put a name to who owned that property for a certain time frame.

As a side note - when giving a son a first or middle name, isn't it traditional to use one of the grandfathers names? My son's middle name is James - which happens to be my fathers middle name and his paternal grandfathers first name. My brothers middle names are 'John Edward', his paternal grandfathers first and second name. This grandfather had 8 granddaughters before finally having a grandson, if you get my drift.

St John is an unusual middle name, unless it reflects a past family name. Sunderland was once 'owned' up and down each concession by the St John family. WPS.
 
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