GUILTY Canada - Jasmine Lovett, mid 20s, and daughter, 2, Calgary, 16 April 2019 *Arrest*

[hartsoup]

I don't, but the schedule is available at the courthouse each morning. You probably found this site, which requires an access PW:

https://albertacourts.ca/pc/court-practice-and-schedules/judicial-schedules

I read that a hearing is schedule May 14.

I can confirm that a hearing is set for May 14th, but there's a good chance his lawyers are going to try and stretch out every hearing/court date possible to get him out of the spotlight. The longer it drags on the better for him, so hopefully they set a plea or trial date soon. I'm guessing they have enough on him to force a guilty plea. Likely threaten with 50 years no parole and settling for 30.

 

[Tortoise]

Apologies if already posted

Mr Der said they will pursue bail "if it's reasonable and can be done," but in the meantime, Leeming was held at the Calgary Remand Centre.

Brit charged with murder of live-in lodger and her baby daughter in Canada

 

[Gina20]

I can confirm that a hearing is set for May 14th, but there's a good chance his lawyers are going to try and stretch out every hearing/court date possible to get him out of the spotlight. The longer it drags on the better for him, so hopefully they set a plea or trial date soon. I'm guessing they have enough on him to force a guilty plea. Likely threaten with 50 years no parole and settling for 30.

That will increase the lawyers' billable hours, but there's no way this story will shrink into obcurity. The British press are all over it. There will be no guilty plea with Balfour Der as defence counsel.

 

[otto]

One immigration lawyer says RL could be deported if found guilty.

Robert Leeming, charged in Calgary double homicide, would face deportation if convicted

"If convicted, Leeming would serve out his sentence in Canada but would be deported immediately upon being granted parole.

"“The policy of the government is that if you’re convicted of a criminal offence, you pay the price first. You have to serve your time,” Greene said.

"“That prevents people from getting deported say, just after they’re convicted and then walking free on the streets and never having to serve a penalty.”"

Convicted criminals who are not Canadian citizens are deported after completing a prison sentence.

 

[otto]

Apologies if already posted

Mr Der said they will pursue bail "if it's reasonable and can be done," but in the meantime, Leeming was held at the Calgary Remand Centre.

Brit charged with murder of live-in lodger and her baby daughter in Canada

I don't see the courts granting bail to a man who is charged with double homicide and who is not a Canadian citizen.

 

[otto]

That will increase the lawyers' billable hours, but there's no way this story will shrink into obcurity. The British press are all over it. There will be no guilty plea with Balfour Der as defence counsel.

Why not? He's currently facing two second degree murder charges, which typically have a sentence of 10 years prior to parole eligibility. Those sentences can be served concurrently. The charges can be changed to first degree murder as more evidence is analyzed. If he pleads guilty now to second degree murder, spares the courts and family the grief of a trial, throws himself on the mercy of the court and demonstrates good will, maybe he can reduce prison time to 10 years. The longer he waits, the greater the chance that one of the charges will be raised to first degree. That changes everything in terms of length of time in prison and concurrent versus consecutive sentences.

 

[MistyWaters]

That will increase the lawyers' billable hours, but there's no way this story will shrink into obcurity. The British press are all over it. There will be no guilty plea with Balfour Der as defence counsel.

Der is not a stranger to plea deals. He represented another client who chose that route just last fall. I don’t think interest by the British media plays any role whatsoever. But it’s just too soon to know what will happen, could go either way.

Murder suspect has another change of heart and will plead guilty, his lawyer says
“Defence counsel Balfour Der re-elected trial by judge alone on behalf of Martin, and told Justice Scott Brooker his client will be entering a plea on Monday...”

 

[Satchie]

I notice how dry it is, no sign of snow near the crime scene.

View attachment 183223

Actually, it's not drought, it's because the ground is too cold for the grass to grow yet.

Digging would have been very difficult in the frozen ground, IMO, hence, it appears, the use of mulch. Some people speculated about burning, but that would seem to me far too risky: if anyone saw fire/smoke from the highway, it would be reported and Parks staff would be there instantly to investigate.

 

[Satchie]

Why not? He's currently facing two second degree murder charges, which typically have a sentence of 10 years prior to parole eligibility. Those sentences can be served concurrently. The charges can be changed to first degree murder as more evidence is analyzed. If he pleads guilty now to second degree murder, spares the courts and family the grief of a trial, throws himself on the mercy of the court and demonstrates good will, maybe he can reduce prison time to 10 years. The longer he waits, the greater the chance that one of the charges will be raised to first degree. That changes everything in terms of length of time in prison and concurrent versus consecutive sentences.

I don't think the public would tolerate a sentence such as 10 years. Not for killing a 2 year old and her mother. Prosecutors are not eager to give sweet deals to child-killers.

 

[MistyWaters]

Actually, it's not drought, it's because the ground is too cold for the grass to grow yet.

Digging would have been very difficult in the frozen ground, IMO, hence, it appears, the use of mulch. Some people speculated about burning, but that would seem to me far too risky: if anyone saw fire/smoke from the highway, it would be reported and Parks staff would be there instantly to investigate.

I’m referring to no snow, as the snow had obviously already melted, no connection to drought whatsoever. Previously the search had been called off for several days because of an unexpected late spring blizzard plus another couple days of snow in Calgary, Bragg Creek and areas west toward the Rockies.

Most if not all of the picnic areas in Kanasanaskis that I recall have small fire pit areas. Grizzly Creek is also a picnic area but at this point we don’t know if anything was burned. However if it was only “evidence” burnt in a fire pit, that wouldn’t ordinarily attract attention by Parks staff.

 

[otto]

I don't think the public would tolerate a sentence such as 10 years. Not for killing a 2 year old and her mother. Prosecutors are not eager to give sweet deals to child-killers.

A plea deal is not made by the community. The prosecutor has to weigh all aspects, including how a trial impacts the family and community. Trials are very expensive and time consuming, and they are painful for the family.

The suspect is charged with 2nd degree murder for the death of the child, and 10 years is normal for 2nd degree murder. Maybe there was an altercation while she was holding the child and they both died as a result. What is an appropriate sentence under those circumstances?

 

[Satchie]

I’m referring to no snow, as the snow had obviously already melted, no connection to drought whatsoever. Previously the search had been called off for several days because of an unexpected late spring blizzard plus another couple days of snow.

Ok, my apologies for misinterpreting.

But I think it's relevant for people who live in less extreme climates to know that the ground was still frozen in April.

 

[bcgirl]

One immigration lawyer says RL could be deported if found guilty.

Robert Leeming, charged in Calgary double homicide, would face deportation if convicted

"If convicted, Leeming would serve out his sentence in Canada but would be deported immediately upon being granted parole.

"“The policy of the government is that if you’re convicted of a criminal offence, you pay the price first. You have to serve your time,” Greene said.

"“That prevents people from getting deported say, just after they’re convicted and then walking free on the streets and never having to serve a penalty.”"

For the sake of JL's family and also RL's ex-wife and family, my hope is that RL would be deported if convicted.

 

[Satchie]

A plea deal is not made by the community. The prosecutor has to weigh all aspects, including how a trial impacts the family and community. Trials are very expensive and time consuming, and they are painful for the family.

The suspect is charged with 2nd degree murder for the death of the child, and 10 years is normal for 2nd degree murder. Maybe there was an altercation while she was holding the child and they both died as a result. What is an appropriate sentence under those circumstances?

IMO, people in the justice system are also members of the law-abiding public community, outraged by this henious crime. They're not cold-hearted bureaucrats looking to process criminals through the system as cheaply and expeditiously as possible.

 

[otto]

IMO, people in the justice system are also members of the law-abiding public community, outraged by this henious crime. They're not cold-hearted bureaucrats looking to process criminals through the system as cheaply and expeditiously as possible.

Prosecutors are government employees who deal with violent criminals on a daily basis. They are not emotionally invested. They apply law and do their best to secure a conviction. Leeming has room to bargain now, while the charges are second degree. Everything changes if one of the charges is changed to first degree murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

IMO, people in the justice system are also members of the law-abiding public community, outraged by this henious crime. They're not cold-hearted bureaucrats looking to process criminals through the system as cheaply and expeditiously as possible.

If any plea deal occurs, I agree, I really doubt would ever happen until after until the investigation is fully complete and the prosecution knows exactly the case they’d be putting forward during a trial.

The order the murders and particularly the autopsy findings, assuming answers will be revealed, and the determining the circumstances I think will prove critical to any future negotiations because it would also be an indicator of the possible sentence. For example one sign of blunt force trauma to a child’s head gives rise to a different scenario than twenty. If he injured the child causing her death he may have murdered Jasmine who about to call 911. On the other hand if he murdered Jasmine first, then the murder of the child would appear a premeditated act to conceal the fact that he caused her mother’s death. There are countless other possible scenarios.

I’m also wondering what sort of dynamics, was alcohol flowing - what did the person who was the last to see the three at the condo the evening of the 16th observe considering CPS believe the murders may have occurred later that same night.

 

[Gina20]

To be clear, I said that there is no chance of this case fading from the public eye. Certainly not. There have been a number of multiple murders in southern Alberta involving children in recent years. The Saretsky, Garland and Downey trials did not fade away quietly in the media, and this one has international coverage. Balfour Der is not afraid of high-profile cases. In fact, any trial involving him becomes high profile. Out on the streets, he is more well known than any other lawyer I can think of. He is a divisive figure. People have feelings one way or another, and there is little middle ground. I think he will defend his client to the utmost. A guilty plea? Not happening, in my opinion. There is always a chance that the client could run out of money, though, and decide to cut it short. We'll see.

I wonder if the condo is being held as security for the lawyers' fees. WRT the divorce and matrimonial property, does anyone know if the former spouse's share would be preserved, or how this works? If the spouse's share is not protected...

Sometimes convicted criminals are not deported. In this case, it took an appeal to reduce the sentence in order for this one to stay.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...a-belakziz-appeal-decision-sentence-1.4897267

It's highly unlikely in a case involving a double murder. Six months? No.

The way I see this playing out? A not guilty plea, or an NCR plea. Der will ask for a psychiatric assessment for his client, and possibly an extension of the assessment prior to trial.

Once the trial begins, the British media will be all over it. They may even release details of a preliminary hearing that is under publication ban, as they did in the Bernardo-Homolka proceedings. Der would use this to his advantage, if it happened. Never underestimate Balfour Der.

Public opinion will not steer the court proceedings. The law will.

 

[Gina20]

Ok, my apologies for misinterpreting.

But I think it's relevant for people who live in less extreme climates to know that the ground was still frozen in April.

Yes. Spring meltwater from the mountains happens in June. Hard to believe, but true.

As I've pointed out, it is difficult to dig any time of year out there. through tree roots and the rock under the thin layer of soil. Rocky Mountains, aptly named.

 

[Gina20]

I don't see the courts granting bail to a man who is charged with double homicide and who is not a Canadian citizen.

Surely he would be deemed a flight risk. After all, why did he change his appearance?

 

[Blurgle]

Capital punishment was abolished in Canada in the last century because psychologists are really smart and they can rehabilitate the average murderer. Compulsive murderers are deemed habitual or long-term offenders and they don't get a second chance. No one is put to death.

Or maybe because every time an innocent person is judicially murdered because someone in the police or prosecution messed up or chose to arrest and/or prosecute the wrong person, we all commit wilful, gleeful murder?

I’d rather be murdered myself than see the death penalty exist. God does not forgive judicial murder.