I can't remember if they were carrying a. bag...as it turned out, the. time window may have been too short but she may have changed into something less striking. in the. house or into the car so that no one would remember. a woman wearing that dress after the. murder
CANADA Canada - Lindsay Buziak, 24, Victoria, BC, 2 Feb 2008
- Thread starter Luanne
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I can't remember if they were carrying a. bag...as it turned out, the. time window may have been too short but she may have changed into something less striking. in the. house or into the car so that no one would remember. a woman wearing that dress after the. murder
ACG2x
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For anyone who wants a reasonable theory regarding the Zailo family being involved,
IIRC, Jason arrived at the house with his buddy around 5:43 PM and allegedly saw the killers start to exit the home, then go back in and exit out the rear patio door. I seem to recall the Saanich PD confirming that partially bloody footprints confirmed this was the likely course of action. This timeline matches pretty perfectly as well:
It's even possible they knew who Jason was given his loose connections to those in the drug world and if they had done their homework on Lindsay, which presumably they had since it was a targeted hit, they'd have known she had a boyfriend and likely even knew who he was so seeing Jason outside made them freak and do an immediate about face.
I think the time window was too short to have changed clothes. The police are very certain the attack on Lindsay happened between 5:38 - 5:41 PM for a variety of reasons already noted earlier ITT.
IIRC, Jason arrived at the house with his buddy around 5:43 PM and allegedly saw the killers start to exit the home, then go back in and exit out the rear patio door. I seem to recall the Saanich PD confirming that partially bloody footprints confirmed this was the likely course of action. This timeline matches pretty perfectly as well:
- 5:32 PM: Enter the home with Lindsay - which I believe is confirmed via the electronic code being used on the lockbox with the key.
- 5:32 to 5:36 PM: Lindsay shows them the main level first. This has been confirmed by Saanich PD as there were three distinct sets of feet indents in the carpet on the main level. However, since they all had their shoes off which was required, it wasn't possible to gain much in the way of actual footprints because everyone walked over each other's heel indents, etc.
- 5:37 PM: The three head upstairs. Lindsay's back would've been turned to them as the realtor pointing out features of the home. They head into the master bedroom.
- 5:38 to 5:41 PM: Lindsay is attacked from behind with a sharp object and violently stabbed repeatedly in quick succession near the entrance to the master bathroom from the master bedroom.
- 5:41 to 5:42 PM: Killers make sure they have all their weapons, probably make sure Lindsay is dead and make a beeline for the front door. Saanich PD has mentioned the partial bloody footprints indicate they went right for the door after killing her and made no attempt to go to any other room upstairs. Killers would've put their shoes back on and opened the front door.
- 5:43 PM: Killers spot Jason arriving. Maybe the recognize him, maybe they don't. Either way, it's an eyewitness they don't need so they quickly re-enter, close and lock the door and head directly for the back patio exit.
It's even possible they knew who Jason was given his loose connections to those in the drug world and if they had done their homework on Lindsay, which presumably they had since it was a targeted hit, they'd have known she had a boyfriend and likely even knew who he was so seeing Jason outside made them freak and do an immediate about face.
IslandGirlTC
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There's very little photos of H or her brother online. Given their background, it's probably intentional.
IslandGirlTC
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A change of clothes is still a possibility. For example, she may have been wearing something underneath like a sheath dress. Something that wouldn't be too bulky or look unnatural. It wouldn't take long to slip off the flashy outer dress and maybe even throw on a top and/or coat. Even in a car. Women can be pretty creative with quick changes when needed.
Which makes me think - maybe the dress choice for the house showing purposes wasn't so odd. Flashy dresses like she was wearing, are often from expensive designer brands. Something you might expect from someone looking for a million dollar home. They were most likely "playing their part" disguised as a wealthy couple so as to keep Lindsay from getting suspicious, imo.
It also served as a heavy distraction. I remember news reports at the time were all saying anyone who recognized the dress or saw someone wearing one like it to contact LE. It was mostly all about finding that dress. It's the detail that sticks in my mind to this day. Were they counting on it being a distraction, I wonder? Still a pretty risky idea, imo.
ACG2x
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It's also interesting that in the phone calls back and forth with the killers to set up the showing and ultimately Lindsay's murder - seven in total I believe from 02/01 when she was first contacted to her murder on 02/02 - she reportedly spoke only to to the woman.
Since she referred to the clients as "the Mexicans" in her phone and noted that the woman spoke with a heavy accent, my belief is that the male who accompanied her and in all likelihood was the actual murderer either didn't speak English or didn't speak it well enough to communicate coherently to not tip Lindsay off that something was seriously wrong which might make her back out of the showing.
I also assume that the woman doing all the talking was to offer a layer of protection to the male in the event that she did back out. The phone was a burner as we know but I believe the woman was simply a diversion so Lindsay would feel more comfortable because if she was already nervous about the circumstances of the showing, doing a 1x1 showing with a male who contacted her out of the blue was probably a bridge too far.
Female realtors often don't do 1x1 home showings with male clients they don't know in strange homes for the obvious safety reasons. In fact, I am pretty certain many realty companies have rules or at least guidelines that restrict that to keep their agents safe.
Since she referred to the clients as "the Mexicans" in her phone and noted that the woman spoke with a heavy accent, my belief is that the male who accompanied her and in all likelihood was the actual murderer either didn't speak English or didn't speak it well enough to communicate coherently to not tip Lindsay off that something was seriously wrong which might make her back out of the showing.
I also assume that the woman doing all the talking was to offer a layer of protection to the male in the event that she did back out. The phone was a burner as we know but I believe the woman was simply a diversion so Lindsay would feel more comfortable because if she was already nervous about the circumstances of the showing, doing a 1x1 showing with a male who contacted her out of the blue was probably a bridge too far.
Female realtors often don't do 1x1 home showings with male clients they don't know in strange homes for the obvious safety reasons. In fact, I am pretty certain many realty companies have rules or at least guidelines that restrict that to keep their agents safe.
ACG2x
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Interesting news clip from 11 years ago that was an interview with Jeff. In it, he describes how the family hired a PI to investigate the case and from that, they narrowed it down to five people who they believed were involved in the plot to murder Lindsay.
More interestingly, Jeff outright says one of those people is not Jason. He wouldn't say who they are but emphatically says it's not Jason. What I've noticed about Jeff in subsequent interviews, including his one with Dr. Phil, is that he never says he suspects Jason however doesn't say what he says here either.
I heard another interview where he was asked about a few of the seemingly conflicting statements over the years about who may have been involved and he basically said as new information comes to light, he reserves the right to change his mind - same as police - which is totally understandable.
From what I can tell, I believe Jeff believes that the Saanich PD know who did it but aren't making an arrest. He seems to think it's because of political and other factors, however the PD has indicated they have a pretty good idea of what happened but don't have enough hard evidence to try and convict someone so to avoid losing that chance in the future, they need to wait and see if something new develops.
As far as Jason goes, while he hasn't really outright said it, from Jeff's other interviews, I think Jeff believes wholeheartedly that while Jason and Shirley were not involved in Lindsay's murder, they do know what happened, either indirectly or outright and may even be impeding the investigation because if the drug ring theory is true then these are dangerous people and they are prioritizing their own safety over solving this crime. Jeff is a pretty direct guy and speaks his mind freely even when he's asked not to, so I think if he thought the Zailo's were prime suspects, he'd have said that.
He's being sued by Shirley Zailo right now for defamation because IIRC, there were allegedly defamatory statements about her and Jason made on his website that he didn't remove and encouraged discussion about. I still think if Jeff had to right hand to God answer truthfully "do you think that the Zailo's planned Lindsay's murder?" he would answer no. However, I absolutely think he thinks or knows they know more than they have let on.
More interestingly, Jeff outright says one of those people is not Jason. He wouldn't say who they are but emphatically says it's not Jason. What I've noticed about Jeff in subsequent interviews, including his one with Dr. Phil, is that he never says he suspects Jason however doesn't say what he says here either.
I heard another interview where he was asked about a few of the seemingly conflicting statements over the years about who may have been involved and he basically said as new information comes to light, he reserves the right to change his mind - same as police - which is totally understandable.
From what I can tell, I believe Jeff believes that the Saanich PD know who did it but aren't making an arrest. He seems to think it's because of political and other factors, however the PD has indicated they have a pretty good idea of what happened but don't have enough hard evidence to try and convict someone so to avoid losing that chance in the future, they need to wait and see if something new develops.
As far as Jason goes, while he hasn't really outright said it, from Jeff's other interviews, I think Jeff believes wholeheartedly that while Jason and Shirley were not involved in Lindsay's murder, they do know what happened, either indirectly or outright and may even be impeding the investigation because if the drug ring theory is true then these are dangerous people and they are prioritizing their own safety over solving this crime. Jeff is a pretty direct guy and speaks his mind freely even when he's asked not to, so I think if he thought the Zailo's were prime suspects, he'd have said that.
He's being sued by Shirley Zailo right now for defamation because IIRC, there were allegedly defamatory statements about her and Jason made on his website that he didn't remove and encouraged discussion about. I still think if Jeff had to right hand to God answer truthfully "do you think that the Zailo's planned Lindsay's murder?" he would answer no. However, I absolutely think he thinks or knows they know more than they have let on.
how often do we see this...im posting on the British. Claudia Lawrence thread and it. seems. to be the. same. there....people knowing but not. speaking because they're afraid of drugs gangs...which may be. the case here.
years ago, I was. sitting on a. bench in the countryside after a. walk and someone cycled very slowly by a few times, as if he. was expecting someone....20 minutes later. the police arrived. and found. some funny stuff stuck under the bench..after they'd cleared me, they told me to watch out for. a while...stay away from. drugs. ..you never know how you might get dragged in.
years ago, I was. sitting on a. bench in the countryside after a. walk and someone cycled very slowly by a few times, as if he. was expecting someone....20 minutes later. the police arrived. and found. some funny stuff stuck under the bench..after they'd cleared me, they told me to watch out for. a while...stay away from. drugs. ..you never know how you might get dragged in.
Hello, I saw a video clip of a podcast/video saying that her dad made a few years back with Lordan Arts on youtube, in that, he comments on the phone being at Vid's house but I don't know how he knew that and he doesn't elaborate. If you heard anything more detailed about that? Thanks in advance
ACG2x
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Haven't heard that but it's possible he was privy to additional information early in the investigation from law enforcement. They will sometimes tell the family tidbits of info to see if their memories can be jogged. Maybe this is released to the public, maybe not.
Another possibility is Jeff has been very loud in rattling cages of law enforcement about this case and he could've gotten wind of that bit of info from some unauthorized source or could've heard it as a rumor from them and is now presenting it as fact.
The phone was activated very shortly before the events of luring Lindsay to the house and murdering her happened. If true, my guess is it showed a ping in the general vicinity of where Vid lived at the time so law enforcement made the assumption it was there or around there which fits with the drug ring theory because he would've either been involved or certainly have known about it.
lonewanderer
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I see there is a very, very lengthy amount of comments for this case.
If it has not been mentioned already, I would like to discuss a case that has some similarities and what the motivation for it was in the end.
Vern Holbrook.
He was an older man that was known to be an extremely hard working real estate agent. Basically, family and real estate was his life.
He was scheduled to show a house to a Hispanic couple, and was attacked when he arrived.
His coworker found him, and he had been stabbed with his throat slashed. He eventually died from the attack.
The caller for Vern was later traced back to the Hispanic woman of the couple.
When the plot fully unfolded, Vern's ex business partner had co-conspired with his son's ex-wife (who Vern supported financially and helped her out despite her being divorced from his son).
The Hispanic couple was living in a hotel room financed by Vern's ex business partner. Vern's ex business partner had also made some scheme to pay for Vern's life insurance payments on behalf of the company they worked for.
MUCH of the case and trial was circumstantial but the ex-business partner went to prison anyways.
TL;DR version: A man was attacked by a Hispanic couple when they posed as buyers for a house. His ex-business partner and ex-daughter in law financed the entire scheme.
More on that case: What happened to Yakima real estate broker Vern Holbrook? NBC Dateline to revisit brutal murder
If it has not been mentioned already, I would like to discuss a case that has some similarities and what the motivation for it was in the end.
Vern Holbrook.
He was an older man that was known to be an extremely hard working real estate agent. Basically, family and real estate was his life.
He was scheduled to show a house to a Hispanic couple, and was attacked when he arrived.
His coworker found him, and he had been stabbed with his throat slashed. He eventually died from the attack.
The caller for Vern was later traced back to the Hispanic woman of the couple.
When the plot fully unfolded, Vern's ex business partner had co-conspired with his son's ex-wife (who Vern supported financially and helped her out despite her being divorced from his son).
The Hispanic couple was living in a hotel room financed by Vern's ex business partner. Vern's ex business partner had also made some scheme to pay for Vern's life insurance payments on behalf of the company they worked for.
MUCH of the case and trial was circumstantial but the ex-business partner went to prison anyways.
TL;DR version: A man was attacked by a Hispanic couple when they posed as buyers for a house. His ex-business partner and ex-daughter in law financed the entire scheme.
More on that case: What happened to Yakima real estate broker Vern Holbrook? NBC Dateline to revisit brutal murder
lonewanderer
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I see there is a very, very lengthy amount of comments for this case.
If it has not been mentioned already, I would like to discuss a case that has some similarities and what the motivation for it was in the end.
Vern Holbrook.
He was an older man that was known to be an extremely hard working real estate agent. Basically, family and real estate was his life.
He was scheduled to show a house to a Hispanic couple, and was attacked when he arrived.
His coworker found him, and he had been stabbed with his throat slashed. He eventually died from the attack.
The caller for Vern was later traced back to the Hispanic woman of the couple.
When the plot fully unfolded, Vern's ex business partner had co-conspired with his son's ex-wife (who Vern supported financially and helped her out despite her being divorced from his son).
The Hispanic couple was living in a hotel room financed by Vern's ex business partner. Vern's ex business partner had also made some scheme to pay for Vern's life insurance payments on behalf of the company they worked for.
MUCH of the case and trial was circumstantial but the ex-business partner went to prison anyways.
TL;DR version: A man was attacked by a Hispanic couple when they posed as buyers for a house. His ex-business partner and ex-daughter in law financed the entire scheme.
More on that case: What happened to Yakima real estate broker Vern Holbrook? NBC Dateline to revisit brutal murder
If it has not been mentioned already, I would like to discuss a case that has some similarities and what the motivation for it was in the end.
Vern Holbrook.
He was an older man that was known to be an extremely hard working real estate agent. Basically, family and real estate was his life.
He was scheduled to show a house to a Hispanic couple, and was attacked when he arrived.
His coworker found him, and he had been stabbed with his throat slashed. He eventually died from the attack.
The caller for Vern was later traced back to the Hispanic woman of the couple.
When the plot fully unfolded, Vern's ex business partner had co-conspired with his son's ex-wife (who Vern supported financially and helped her out despite her being divorced from his son).
The Hispanic couple was living in a hotel room financed by Vern's ex business partner. Vern's ex business partner had also made some scheme to pay for Vern's life insurance payments on behalf of the company they worked for.
MUCH of the case and trial was circumstantial but the ex-business partner went to prison anyways.
TL;DR version: A man was attacked by a Hispanic couple when they posed as buyers for a house. His ex-business partner and ex-daughter in law financed the entire scheme.
More on that case: What happened to Yakima real estate broker Vern Holbrook? NBC Dateline to revisit brutal murder
Frankie Hellis
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I remember this case. I cannot believe the murderers got one year and nothing for the other one. Only the ex-business partner received time.
Yes, this case is similar, but so far no one has connected the Hispanic couple to anyone close to Buziak. It has been reported that the burner cell phone used to make the appointment with Lindsay was with Vid the night before. For the life of me, I just don’t understand how that does not break the case. I sure would like to get my hands on this case file.
lonewanderer
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I am leaning towards the Hispanic couple in Lindsay's case not actually being Hispanic.
What do you mean by "was with vid", I am sorry, I don't understand.
ttcRider
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Who is Vid?
lonewanderer
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I was wondering this, too.
If I had to guess, I think the OP was saying that the burner phone (which IIRC only made 2 calls in its lifetime) had it's voicemail checked by a registered phone number. It has been confirmed that the police know who this person is.
You know what? Now that I think about it.....I am also recalling a case that involved a burner phone and CCTV footage of this person purchasing it. I listened to that one a LONG time ago....but IIRC the burner phone was purchased by a friend of a friend who carried out the murder while the main suspect and person with motivation was established to have been far far away.
(Not that it matters, just recalling details) The people involved was 3 African American women IIRC. I want to say the "mastermind" was in Detroit as the plot was being taken out in DC.
***Side note*** ----- This may seem TOTALLY out of left field, but the more I discuss this case, the more I think about Missy Bevers. She was basically attacked at her job, too. The main suspects have been established to be miles away. Cases like this, the women between Detroit and DC, Vern's case, they all just go to show that (what is kinda) a "hitman" is not usually an organized and disciplined assassin with a $10K+ price tag leaving a massive paper trail. More often than not, a total doofus is paid pennies to carry out the hit. I will quit rambling, but in one other case I remember, a mentally challenged man was paid a grand total of $500 to carry out a hit. This became a major problem for many reasons. Super hard to prove, was in cash, wasn't taken out all at one time. Etc.
Frankie Hellis
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Edgar Ovidio ACEVEDO
Picture is here and partial rap sheet toward bottom of post.
Sorry. I thought this was familiar to everyone. It has been going on a long time though.
Frankie Hellis
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More on the phone - this article does not specifically mention Vid, but states the police know who had the phone(s). I will have to do some searching through my bookmarks to see where I read about the one phone being at Vid’s the night before the murder.
”The most important finding is police allege they know the name of whoever or whatever is ultimately responsible for that phone," Sherman said Tuesday. "I certainly think there are now many more questions than there were previously."
The real name of the owner of both phones is known to police, according to the Capital, but remains unknown to the public at this time.
”The most important finding is police allege they know the name of whoever or whatever is ultimately responsible for that phone," Sherman said Tuesday. "I certainly think there are now many more questions than there were previously."
The real name of the owner of both phones is known to police, according to the Capital, but remains unknown to the public at this time.
Shadow@light
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I have heard about this case over the years, just yesterday I stumbled on the up dates about the case.
Few things kept snagging me, one )was "She had been mistaken for a Informate",a friend few months before had been arrested big drug bust people thought she had informed.
2) She told her Dad she had seen something she should not have.
3) The behaviour of her boyfriend, his delay/actions when he and friend when there while Lindsay Buziah was being murder.
IMO, this whole thing speaks of a set up someone/people had a grudge/spite against Lindsay, yes she had seen something, and was worried. I worked in Motels/Hotels, high Market where clients needs come first.
, and also confess Local theater productions where I seen things/then look away,
Drugs, clients staying having partners(not Wives) sharing in their hotel room, even court trials where we had to remain silent no matter what we saw or heard. Lindsay's comment I have even said to friends because I was worried if anyone asked me I could not lie, I believe that is what Lindsay was worried about it asked how would she reply. There is a court case which disturb not only me but other staff members in what we heard and saw, Manager told us the hotel is known for Discreetion, it was Hotel Policy .
I going in a different opinon, I ,have looked at person/people with a grudge against Lindsay took the chance about the "Drugs Situation' or what Lindsay spoke to her Father gave misleading information to the other party/parties but I don't think they thought it would lead to Murder but more of her given nasty injuries/terrible fright/ ruin her career or even a nasty prank is one of the lesser opinion, thus willing to give them the information to help set up the situation, if the boyfriend/ friend was involved IMO Questionable by his actions on the night, ran up stairs expecting to see a badly beaten up Lindsay instead he found her murdered. Or the most a prank was being played When looking at this information even the up dates on the case, why I say this is, for my opinion, is boyfriend behaviour reminded me of a incident from many years ago, my friend had a boyfriend they been together for a few years, we both been away interstate for a few months, her car needed major repairs, , she was doing her best to catch up missing time she was away , he wanted catch up time ,but he insited they met after his worktime, he lived/worked in the outer suburbs, from City she had to travel by Train to the Suburb station of ,telephone him where he pick her up in his car. She was getting annoyed because he would leave her waiting at the station for over an hour or more, even when he told her he was on his way(They had a major arguement when she caught the taxi to his place(Parents House.) Even when I dropped her off once. She ended their relationship soon afterwards, when he left her waiting again at the Train Station over nearly hour when he said he was on his way and a Police Car drove up Officers were concerned as they seen her waiting for long periods at the Train Station,she explained the situation ,the Officers explained their reason for concern, while we been away there had been Massive Sexual Assaults in the Local Area ( The Offender was later arrested about eight months later) her boyfriend should had been concerned about her Welfare. My friend ended the relationship that night, he was walking out with his new girlfriend following week.
IMO looking at Lindsay boy friend and his friend,his Mother there is something not right, being late after saying they on they way ,moving the car out of sight of the house, I wish Lindsay had listened that something was not right, Although Boyfriend and Mother said they offer to help, ,IMO they are just trying to cover up after the fact.
Opinion just crossed my thoughts, is it possible the man and woman were not the Killers, but Killer was already in the house or the visitors unlocked the door to let someone in, if they were told it was a prank or something romantic and paid to do it, their job was to met and greet( which was witnessed, Lindsay texted everything is fine) while shown tour of house they could unlocked the back door, then they leave by back door where change clothes/ shoes/wigs? leaving Lindsay with unknown person not knowing what the real intention was. I doubt they would come forward now as it does sound unbelieveble yet in the past it had happened. IMO
Few things kept snagging me, one )was "She had been mistaken for a Informate",a friend few months before had been arrested big drug bust people thought she had informed.
2) She told her Dad she had seen something she should not have.
3) The behaviour of her boyfriend, his delay/actions when he and friend when there while Lindsay Buziah was being murder.
IMO, this whole thing speaks of a set up someone/people had a grudge/spite against Lindsay, yes she had seen something, and was worried. I worked in Motels/Hotels, high Market where clients needs come first.
, and also confess Local theater productions where I seen things/then look away,
Drugs, clients staying having partners(not Wives) sharing in their hotel room, even court trials where we had to remain silent no matter what we saw or heard. Lindsay's comment I have even said to friends because I was worried if anyone asked me I could not lie, I believe that is what Lindsay was worried about it asked how would she reply. There is a court case which disturb not only me but other staff members in what we heard and saw, Manager told us the hotel is known for Discreetion, it was Hotel Policy .
I going in a different opinon, I ,have looked at person/people with a grudge against Lindsay took the chance about the "Drugs Situation' or what Lindsay spoke to her Father gave misleading information to the other party/parties but I don't think they thought it would lead to Murder but more of her given nasty injuries/terrible fright/ ruin her career or even a nasty prank is one of the lesser opinion, thus willing to give them the information to help set up the situation, if the boyfriend/ friend was involved IMO Questionable by his actions on the night, ran up stairs expecting to see a badly beaten up Lindsay instead he found her murdered. Or the most a prank was being played When looking at this information even the up dates on the case, why I say this is, for my opinion, is boyfriend behaviour reminded me of a incident from many years ago, my friend had a boyfriend they been together for a few years, we both been away interstate for a few months, her car needed major repairs, , she was doing her best to catch up missing time she was away , he wanted catch up time ,but he insited they met after his worktime, he lived/worked in the outer suburbs, from City she had to travel by Train to the Suburb station of ,telephone him where he pick her up in his car. She was getting annoyed because he would leave her waiting at the station for over an hour or more, even when he told her he was on his way(They had a major arguement when she caught the taxi to his place(Parents House.) Even when I dropped her off once. She ended their relationship soon afterwards, when he left her waiting again at the Train Station over nearly hour when he said he was on his way and a Police Car drove up Officers were concerned as they seen her waiting for long periods at the Train Station,she explained the situation ,the Officers explained their reason for concern, while we been away there had been Massive Sexual Assaults in the Local Area ( The Offender was later arrested about eight months later) her boyfriend should had been concerned about her Welfare. My friend ended the relationship that night, he was walking out with his new girlfriend following week.
IMO looking at Lindsay boy friend and his friend,his Mother there is something not right, being late after saying they on they way ,moving the car out of sight of the house, I wish Lindsay had listened that something was not right, Although Boyfriend and Mother said they offer to help, ,IMO they are just trying to cover up after the fact.
Opinion just crossed my thoughts, is it possible the man and woman were not the Killers, but Killer was already in the house or the visitors unlocked the door to let someone in, if they were told it was a prank or something romantic and paid to do it, their job was to met and greet( which was witnessed, Lindsay texted everything is fine) while shown tour of house they could unlocked the back door, then they leave by back door where change clothes/ shoes/wigs? leaving Lindsay with unknown person not knowing what the real intention was. I doubt they would come forward now as it does sound unbelieveble yet in the past it had happened. IMO
Lalalacasbah
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I hope this new news creates a break in the case! I am convinced "friends of Jason" and Lindsay know more than they've stated and may need to save their own hide and maybe talk...
Also do we know if when Lindsay "saw something she shouldn't have" it was related to the Z's for sure? Could've been associates of Lindsay and the Z's.
Also do we know if when Lindsay "saw something she shouldn't have" it was related to the Z's for sure? Could've been associates of Lindsay and the Z's.