Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #12

[MistyWaters]

That combined with the "we don't see any way they can pose a threat anymore" quote from yesterday indicates to me that the RCMP believes they drowned.

"An RCMP spokesperson declined to tell CBC News what was found, citing the ongoing investigation, but said they were personal items."

So, not just camping equipment, from the sound of it. "Personal items" indicates to me something like clothing (Bryer's camo jacket as we theorized yesterday?) Or maybe it was their gun like someone theorized yesterday. I don't know if they would be dumb enough to take their IDs from the RAV4 on their "fugitive wilderness adventure," but who knows.

We also don’t know if the items had evidence of severe damage caused by water turbulence and rocks in the rapids and were washed up onto a shoreline area....or if they were just set on the shore in addition to any evidence of footprints or bush disturbance. Investigators should able to determine how the items got to where they were found, from either the river or by land.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Shoes are a good idea. They aren't getting far in the muskeg without those and would definitely not pose a threat anymore. Do you guys think the current would be strong enough to take off someone's shoes? In the store footage, Bryer was wearing some kind of military boots, and I can't tell what Kam was wearing but I think he was wearing boots also.

Oh yeah, the river could rip off running shoes...probably not laced up boots that go beyond the ankle though.

 

[otto]

If they were able to walk along the shore of the Nelson River to 9km from the car, and leave personal items, why couldn't they continue to walk along the shore past the rapids?

From looking at maps, it looks like 9km from the car is just before the rapids, and 13km is just after the rapids. It doesn't really make sense that they would take a boat through the rapids when they could stay on the shore.

 

[derweezy]

I agree @derweezy, i wonder if there’s a dam or blockage downstream that they have checked?
Welcome to websleuths, so glad you’re here! It really is an awesome site!!

I believe there is a dam, but there must be some rationale as to why they dove where they did. They were a specially trained team...I'm assuming part of the training is determining where to search based on the evidence (boat), current, and the river itself. If they did search an area, I have to believe that that's where they determined they were most likely to find evidence. The fact that they found nothing tells me they don't think they were in the water MOO. Lastly, if the found items on the shore were washed up, you could reasonably expect to find other items in the river. Really wish we had more information on what was found!

Thanks for the welcome, I agree this site is awesome!!

Just thinking, why would they not look further downstream while they had the divers on site (it's got to be costly to fly a team there)? just makes me think they don't believe they were in the water.

 

[steelybird]

I think it would have to be things with some buoyancy like running shoes, etc. FactFinder3000 had some good suggestions with a toothbrush or maybe toothpaste tube. The water jug would have some air in it or lightweight insulation so it would float. Maybe they stored a phone or a wallet in a ziplok and the air inside allowed to to float the water's edge. I am pretty sure a metal gun would sink and not be carried anywhere.

OR they stored their personal items inside the water jug. This may explain why at first it was only the boat and jug reported, then later it was stated that several personal items were also found. If this is the case I am leaning more towards them being drowned, although (as I have stated repeatedly) I really hope they are found alive.

 

[Moonlitnight]

At least if the suspects are found/captured, it would provide some closure to what right now is a raw and gaping wound. It may never answer ALL of the questions, but it would be hugely preferable to all the speculating about motives and methods, the worry that the suspects may do further harm, and the need for some accountability for the senseless deaths of three beautiful people.

Emphasis on the "three beautiful people." This story, by necessity, is all about these awful suspects and it should be about LD, CD and LF. I wish there were more about them somewhere to read. I've seen the brief bios about their aspirations and about how popular LD was but it is sickening in a way how much emphasis is placed on their suspected killers. Just having a rant here and probably not making much sense.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think the river is turbulent enough to act like a washing machine.

A gross thought: what if they died in the river and then as they rotted, their shoes came off and then washed up? Can that happen?

If they were able to walk along the shore of the Nelson River to 9km from the car, and leave personal items, why couldn't they continue to walk along the shore past the rapids?

From looking at maps, it looks like 9km from the car is just before the rapids, and 13km is just after the rapids. It doesn't really make sense that they would take a boat through the rapids when they could stay on the shore.

What if they were on land and following the river, but then during the heavy thunderstorms of the 24th or 25th, the river levels went up and they got swept into it?

 

[Moonlitnight]

Was any clothing found by RCMP?

They won't divulge what it was.

 

[Kiantra]

Maybe they found their cellphone and they recorded their last words or made a video to that effect?

 

[NJSleuth91]

Just thinking, why would they not look further downstream while they had the divers on site (it's got to be costly to fly a team there)? just makes me think they don't believe they were in the water.

Because what they found was enough to conclude that the two were likely dead, or soon to be dead? After that they made a good faith effort to find their bodies just for closure, but then decided that it wasn't worth the risk to the divers to continue, since the current is very strong there, and they were pretty sure the two died already. JMO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I believe there is a dam, but there must be some rationale as to why they dove where they did. They were a specially trained team...I'm assuming part of the training is determining where to search based on the evidence (boat), current, and the river itself. If they did search an area, I have to believe that that's where they determined they were most likely to find evidence. The fact that they found nothing tells me they don't think they were in the water MOO. Lastly, if the found items on the shore were washed up, you could reasonably expect to find other items in the river. Really wish we had more information on what was found!

Thanks for the welcome, I agree this site is awesome!!

Just thinking, why would they not look further downstream while they had the divers on site (it's got to be costly to fly a team there)? just makes me think they don't believe they were in the water.

I read that they were specifically searching an eddy (whirlpool) nearby the found items.

"The discovery of the rowboat washed up on the shore at a back eddy of the Nelson River prompted Insp. Fiedler to call in an RCMP dive team from Winnipeg. "

Belongings of B.C. fugitives found on Manitoba shore; RCMP says latest search coming to an end

 

[Moonlitnight]

A gross thought: what if they died in the river and then as they rotted, their shoes came off and then washed up? Can that happen?

Yes. That is exactly what happened when all those shoes with feet in them washed up on the shores of BC. The feet were still inside as the shoes held them there while the connective tissues in the joints disintegrated.

 

[FactFinder3000]

If they were able to walk along the shore of the Nelson River to 9km from the car, and leave personal items, why couldn't they continue to walk along the shore past the rapids?

From looking at maps, it looks like 9km from the car is just before the rapids, and 13km is just after the rapids. It doesn't really make sense that they would take a boat through the rapids when they could stay on the shore.

Oh that's right, the items were before the rapids and the boat was after. So perhaps the items were left there, as opposed to being washed up. But why would they leave personal items behind? Strange.

One thing I did notice in satellite photos is that there are rough roads or trails going a long, long way to the east.

 

[sprucetip]

There’s no third person. Completely made up.

Agreed, seems way too farfetched for there have to have been a 3rd murderer.

 

[Gina20]

Why haven't they been formally charged for the death of Lucas and Chynna? I'm seriously starting to doubt they were involved with those two.

It shows a picture of Bryer holding alcohol in his Instagram picture so it's possible the two drank. They could have been drinking/driving and caused a hit and run (Len) and left his DNA on their vehicle (blood) and tried to burn it all. Once they fled the scene with the Rav they became suspects for the murder of the couple by default. Scared shitless as to what just transpired they went on the run and felt there was no returning.

I am wondering why they haven't been charged, too. Over a week ago, Sgt. Janelle Shoihet of the BC RCMP said in an interview on CBC-TV that charges would be laid soon in the murders of LF and CD. Either I don't understand the meaning of the word soon, or something happened with the evidence, i.e. DNA under fingernails or something did not connect to KM and BS.

So perhaps Pyecraft is correct that a third person is involved in all this in some way. I have been trying to figure out which route LF and CD took, and which route BS and KM took before LF and CD got to the Alaska Highway and their final location near Liard Hot Springs. I think it is possible that someone could have followed CD and LF from the time they left the ranch at Hudson's Hope. On Sunday, someone tried to abduct a flagger on Highway 29 between Hudson's Hope and Charlie Lake, where Highway 29 joins Highway 97 (the Alaska Highway at that point). So now a few weeks after all this began, a predator is roaming the very highway CD and LF would have taken for at least the beginning of their journey. Highway 29 connects to Highway 97 at Chetwynd, then on to Dawson Creek and Mile Zero, so either way they were on Highway 29.

Then we add in the unsolved double shooting murders of two German tourists near Chetwynd in 1983. What are the chances that KM and BS would go to the exact location in Northern Manitoba at the abandoned Sundance site where a suspect in the 1983 murders was arrested, to burn the Rav4?

Remembering that whoever murdered the German tourists in 1983 could still be alive and well and living along Highway 29 in B.C., maybe even working at the WAC Bennett Dam or Site C dam near Fort Saint John. Maybe the highway predator who tried to abduct the flagger this past weekend is that very person.

And how can we explain that the tire tracks where LD was found seemed to be two distinct sets, one on top of the other?

So many things don't make sense. I do not dismiss the possibility of a third party. Pyecraft, do you care to add to this?

 

[sprucetip]

Unless they confess. After this amount of time in the wild and deprivation, who knows where they are mentally.
We need Jim Smyth, the OPP officer who interrogated Russell Williams, to talk to these two.

Even Smyth couldn't get Williams to admit WHY he did what he did. Pretty sure these kids don't have answers either.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

A gross thought: what if they died in the river and then as they rotted, their shoes came off and then washed up? Can that happen?



What if they were on land and following the river, but then during the heavy thunderstorms of the 24th or 25th, the river levels went up and they got swept into it?

Bodies in water severely bloat. I would think the amount of bloat swelling that occurs it would actually keep their shoes from coming off.

Now as they skeletonized much much later the shoes would come off, but that process would take quite a bit of time to happen.

Jmho

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Oh that's right, the items were before the rapids and the boat was after. So perhaps the items were left there, as opposed to being washed up. But why would they leave personal items behind? Strange.

One thing I did notice in satellite photos is that there are rough roads or trails going a long, long way to the east.

Perhaps to throw searchers off, leaving things behind and then going far from there?

 

[musicaljoke]

Oh yeah, the river could rip off running shoes...probably not laced up boots that go beyond the ankle though.

Yes. That's true. Also, the suspect might kicked off his shoes if he had found himself suddenly trying to swim to shore.

 

[Moriarty]

What if they were on land and following the river, but then during the heavy thunderstorms of the 24th or 25th, the river levels went up and they got swept into it?

Playing with this idea for a second, there were a couple of dams near where I grew up, and they would release water during rainy periods that caused a surge in the river below. They would post the release times beforehand, and we would all grab inner tubes or floaty things and float along on the surge.

I'm at work, so shouldn't even be looking here (but I can't pull myself away!), but does Manitoba Hydro post water release times if they do such things at say the Limestone converter station just upstream? Just a thought ...